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Alaska
Jan 30, 2005 22:57:32 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 30, 2005 22:57:32 GMT -5
Doc? Can you tell me how it all started and how it turned out?
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 0:07:11 GMT -5
Post by docone31 on Jan 31, 2005 0:07:11 GMT -5
Andy. I will be glad to. I went to Alaska to start a program of rehabilitation for alcoholics and addicts. I had started a foundation in the memory of my father who committed suicide. I had saved a significant amount of money and wanted to build a compound where the old arts were practiced and learned. My fourth ex-wife and I went to Alaska, where she was from, and landed in Anchorage. I had trained in Alaska in the military and was very familiar with Arctic survival. She married me under an alias. When we got there, she cleaned out the account, tossed my "papers" and I was homeless and couldn't prove I was who I was to anybody. It was too cold to stay in one place and wait for the papers to arrive from beuractic channels. -20 at the time. I had had enough with life, took my Buck Knife General my denim jacket, and a change of clothes and walked into the woods. I walked in, and never looked back. No food, no money, no papers, no resource, no family, no interest in meeting anybody. No desire to have any ties to anybody or anything. I would rather die by an animal than be touched by another human. To survive like I did, you cannot turn back or have any ideas that it might be better somewhere. I refused to be a street bum. I tried to hunt but it was too dark, I still smelled like an human, and I still made noise when I walked. I lived under branches drawn down by snow, I kept walking, I kept moving. I got real hungry. I started getting desperate from hunger. My first meal was a Moose who had shed one antler. I walked up to the animal, jumped up and grabbed his antler. I took my Buck Knife and slit his throat and hung on to his one antler. Things went real badly. He roared, ran, and ran. I hung on. He hit every tree, branch, rock he could. My coat got caught on his antler and I couldn't let go. I was bleeding, my clothes torn, and he died on top of me after what seemed hours of being beat to death. By the time I got out from under him, he was almost frozen solid and I couldn't cut anything to eat. I was too beaten, too cold, he was too frozen and I had no fire. Two weeks plus, no food, torn clothes, -20 plus, very little sleep. I collapsed under another downed spruce branch and passed out. I woke up badly cold. I found a Nutria den and killed a Nutria. Those little rodents are the nastiest tasting thing I have ever eaten. Not even the Inuit eat Nutria! Hunger does that. I skinned the Nutria. One brain, one skin. Made some really lousey mittens from two others. I made pretty good spears after a while. I found a dead yuppie and got some gear. Had a bear come through my shelter and trash everything. Back to zero again. I lost the gold I had panned, my skins were garbage, my food was destroyed. I lived like that for four years. I got better as I learned. I avoided people for four years. I got it down to a pattern where I was an effective solo hunter. When I found another dead yuppie, he had a rifle. I found I was better at spears, and knives than shooting. The noise really bothered me. I watched a trapper shoot his front teeth out with his pistol. He had an abcess and there was no Dr. He really made a mess and I think he is going to die, or is already dead. Alaska is like that. You do not learn from your mistakes, you die. I have been on whale hunts with the Inuits in Nunavik, panned in northwest Alaska, Trapped the Mckenzie, the Eagle. I only hunted what I needed and could use myself. I wasted nothing, nor had what I couldn't carry myself. I never stayed in one place long. I had developed a way of living in a snow cave that worked for me. I lived outdoors for so long, I couldn't go indoors for any length of time. After two years, children would cry when they saw me. It took about six months untill I could hear the quiet. The body self cleans after 30 days and begins a self cleaning routine. I got Guardia and learned about making sure the water is ok to drink. I fell off a cliff, I broke through the ice in mid winter and went under the ice. I drifted down stream untill I found a gap around a rock and chipped my way out. It seemed forever but it probably was no more than one minute. The water was terrible cold, and the air was worse. My fire flint was ice covered, and my char cloth was wet. I came close with that one. I met a jerk like I had been and tried to help him. He was new to sobriety and I considered it my duty to try to give him what I had been given. Typical dry drunk, he knew everything, I was a mountain animal and knew nothing. We went hunting and he killed a deer. I did not see him but he wiped his hands on his pants. We had been resting in my snow cave. We slept there, head to foot. Men sleep like that. No girly guy stuff there. The snow cave was small for me and now there was two! That night, a Brown Bear went prowling. Bears do not sleep all the way through the winter, they get up and forage. He must have smelled the blood on his pants. I heard a roar, saw an huge head come through the side of the cave and he went through the cave with the head. All my supplies went with him. The bear's teeth severed his femoral artery. The bear was shaking him and things went flying. I slept on the rifle I had found, an really nice Ruger #1 in .375 H&H. I had one round. I put the bear down, the dude kicked it. I had no clothes, no shelter, no fire, everything was buried in snow, it was -65. I had a problem. I had two shirts, sweatshirt, jeans and my boots. I was about 125 miles from anything human. I had two choices. Stay and die, or walk out and maybe live. Human urine freezes at -42 before it hits the ground, flesh freezes solid at -45. I made an hard march with my hands in my pockets and head down. My eyes froze, my left eye erupted, the vitreal humor froze on my left cheek, my right retina floats. The sinuses froze in my forehead, and upper nose, the bones in my right temple erupted through the skin. My left patela froze and fractured, the anterior ligament seperated, the skin on both legs split and the quad muscles on both legs were lacerated by the frozen skin. My hands were black, my face had ice on it, my tongue had ice and the hard palate was freezer burned. I lost the little toe on my right foot from frostbite. I managed to get into a town. I got to an emergency room. My body temperature was 84 degreees and dropping. They gave me a cup of coffee and my teeth fractured. Upper and lower. I couldn't take people so I left. I had enough gold dust in my pants pocket to have it assayed and got enough for a plane ticket to Seattle, and bus fare to Key West. I bled through my ears for almost three years. My nose constantly bled. I still have no feeling in my hands or feet. Subtle temperature changes make me real sick. Not impared, real sick. My body temperature still goes up and down and it has been over 13yrs. I have trouble walking, my ears ring, I can barely see. My hands are still not there. My legs still have scars and right now, my right leg is going to erupt with a lesion caused by spinal cord pressure from the cold on my spine. It forces spinal fluid down my right ciatic nerve and it erupts halfway down my right quadracept. My arm joints lost 40% of their mobility. I cannot see in the light. I am great in pitch black. I cannot sit, lay down, stand. IN my opinion, a person cannot do the Alaska thing living in an house. You have to condition-decondition daily. You have to have a job, pay for the land you already own, fight with clerks in the grocery store, slip and slide on the roadways, argue with people who do not know who you are, nor care. Listen to people who tell you how to live. Why leave an established job to repeat the same circumstances under more adverse conditions? Another thing about Alaska. Everybody has the same look in their eyes. They have all seen the elephant. Don't die on my front yard, move on! I'll help you all I can if that is what you want to do. I haven't related the worst, only what I tell yuppies that like my history. There is real sadness, heartache, beauty, joy, and a feeling of oneness that can only be earned. You cannot read it, get it by sneaking up on it. You make a choice, and live with its rewards and consequences. After I met Jenne, it took me five years to sleep on a bed. I still sleep on the floor but on a mattress. She is used to that but always talks about a real bed. Everything I own is next to me. This is her computer, her house. I just fix it, use it, and try to make things last. Another thing Alaskans do is save soap chips. You get a mug, fill it with soap chips, get a 1" bristle brush from an hardware store, strop your Buck Knife and shave. Mites, fleas, chiggers live in facial hair in the spring, summer and early fall. I have some real scars on my face from shaving without a mirror. Mirrors weigh and replace supplies your life depends on. My eyebrows only half came back and children always tell me I look like a devil. Think for a moment. If you, right now, had to survive on your own without any tools, phone, clothes, weapons, shoes, and couldn't go to safety ever again, what would you do? It gets real real, real quick. An human can go without food for 30 days without irreversible damage. Sleep can be an option. Water can be found. HOw do you carry it, how do you filter it, how far can you go untill you need more? Predators wait by watering places. The human ones are the worst. I'll help you, but are you sure? What about your wife? House? Health insurance? Retirement? HOw about seniority? I have no retirement, health insurance. I am lucky my wife puts up with the life I have learned. I cannot really see, feel things, taste, I do not sleep through the night. I would do it again however but this time, I think I might have not walked out. Perhaps I jumped the gun.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 0:57:06 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 0:57:06 GMT -5
Can I ask you your age Doc?
How old are you?
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 6:50:24 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 6:50:24 GMT -5
I had to delete my bad language from last night.
Sorry about that.
Doc, if anyone ever had a life story to tell, then its you. And noone can challenge that - for certain.
For some reason I get the impression that you did it the hardest way you could Doc.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 6:52:27 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 6:52:27 GMT -5
"If you, right now, had to survive on your own without any tools, phone, clothes, weapons, shoes, and couldn't go to safety ever again, what would you do?"
I wouldnt be in that situation in the first place........
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 10:10:53 GMT -5
Post by docone31 on Jan 31, 2005 10:10:53 GMT -5
Andy, you never used any words other than considerate. I am 51. I would never have considered going without and having to live and find quality. I ended up with two choices, live on the dole, or try to find quality from disaster. I chose the latter. I really had no choice. I was a person who fell into a crack in this society. I had made too much money to qualify for any state programs I had paid for, I was too educated to be employed and restart at the bottom. Kinda like the position you are in. I loved Alaska, the simple life, and controlling my own ability to learn from my mistakes. My first wife left for another woman after 17yrs of duking it out, my second wife ended up with a cult and she and my son are gone, never seen again, my third wife decided to try a few airline pilots for an evening of fun and excitement. I was so shattered after that junket I really lost perspective. I had thought, marriage was a form of social control, all women were thieves, and children are for state manipulation of the individuals sorry enough to have them. My wife Jenne has shown me differently. She came from the same background in experience as I did. We both met by accident in Portland Oregon and married. I cannot be with a woman for a fling. I am not made that way. For better or worse, when I am with a woman, I commit and try to build a life. I also spent years between wives. I just gave up on a quality life. The fourth wife cinched it. I had no interest in shooting myself. I was afraid the liberals would use that as ammo to take our independance from everybody. So surviving in Alaska was the only choice. It did me good. It has helped me to achieve what my insecurities cancelled. Our shop is an example. I learned first hand, tomorrow will be here whether you are here or not. So, I learned, that choices today will be lessons tomorrow. I was always that turtle who refused to sit on the log with the rest. In Alaska, I found a great peace with myself. With a life of daily, every moment live or die, you see the world differently. Small things were small things, problems became challenges, I put down my drums of revelations, I stopped living for other peoples opinions, I stopped having to fight. I knew I could win so I no longer had to prove I could. In school, I was always bored. I knew the answers deeper than the teachers. I went to college on full scholarships with per diem, I graduated Cum Laude in every colegiate subject. I never studied, I never did research. It just came to me. So, I found myself with no one to talk to. I couldn't relate to the geeks who were my peers, I despised life in general, and I hated luxury and waste. I had built my own home, I cut my timber, made the tools to make my timber. I dug my well, designed an hydrolic well rig. Shaped the landscaping to be completely self sustaining with plants that fed each other! I was bored to death with slow, boring, dumb conversation and arrogant to say the least. Being homeless was the best thing I ever did. Physically it was devastating, but emotionally and mentally it was healthy. Mel Fisher showed me how to survive devastation and make a living. My blacksmithing experience led me to jewelery. My wood working led me to independance, and structural designing that survives. I no longer go to the best resteraunts. I no longer try to be the ghostes with the mostes. I no longer rely on anybody for anything. I make my food, most tools, most clothes. I do most of the repairs on my body with tools I make. Today, aside from designing jewelery and making tools for lapidary, jewelery, gem cutting, I am redesigning the Panga. I am working on an hull design that should be friction less with minimal power that can be used by people with less than CAD capabilities. I cannot help you with living in Alaska in an home, with utilities, transportation, heat. I cannot see the point. The environmental considerations plus the ecoliberals make life almost unmanageable. They make laws that guarantee waste in the effort to save something they are destroying. The survivalists I met had an agenda, the yuppies were dropping out and tried to do the Jeremia Johnson thing and killing themselves. The indegenous peoples were glad to have heat, gas for cooking, TV, and a washer and dryer. A snowmobile takes a lot of time out of a trip. A Dr. does a lot better with a broken bone, or ripped skin than prayer or ritual. Sleeping at night with no trappings of civilization, you can be killed in your sleep for the socks in your bag! Life is different when you do not seek outside assistance. You do not take unnecessary chances, you do not forget where things are. You do not trade in things for the newer model. Life becomes much better. Today, I might live in Juneau. I am a good jeweler and can make living. Maybe. Not too cold, rains a lot. Fairbanks floods! Breakup is a trip! Life is different there. You make a mistake and you are fired and blackballed. The black flies and mosquitoes will make a Caribou drown itself. I have seen that. Mice are everywhere! They run along the walls at night. The wolves eat mice. It is estimated there are 4000 mice per acre! Don't move into town and hire an outside contractor to fix your house. The town will turn its back on you and you will always be an outsider. When you move into a town, they will not talk to you for a year. Just like Portland. There is safety in numbers. That is why people flock to cities. Settling an area and making it your own is a rewarding experience. Cooperating with the environment and being complimentary is an achievement. Living simply is peaceful. Good luck to you. Alaska can be found in many areas. Sometimes in your own backyard. Sometimes, choices are permanent. I live with a lot of choices today. Dentures, artificial knee, three broken vertabre in my neck, no feeling in my extremities, and memories of sadness I wish I didn't have to relive over and over. That is life. Andy, I do not know why you started this forum, but, it has been a real good thing. I wish I had had the schmutz to do something like it back then. If I had tried, and if I had been able to do it, I would probably not have had the results your forum has. I am glad you have the makings to pull it off and keep it on track like you do. You have done good.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 10:31:29 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 10:31:29 GMT -5
How many people on the planet earth can honestly say they know a man like you?
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 10:33:33 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 10:33:33 GMT -5
forget floyd - Andy is here - AKA MARK.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 10:40:40 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 10:40:40 GMT -5
Doc, are you trying to put me off Alaska, because i'd rather hear some positives.
And don't even try and tell me there are none.
Let me know where you are and I'll put my money where my mouth is and come and see you.
I shall have a beer, and you can watch and have a cup of tea.
If you show me the ropes......................i'd be totally happy and work like a skinned dog.
And, if you screw up, then if I were your neighbour you'd have a mate to lean on - but i'd lean on you already for help. . Where do you live Doc. I want to fly over and meet you.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 11:15:07 GMT -5
Post by docone31 on Jan 31, 2005 11:15:07 GMT -5
Andy, I live in New Port Richey Florduh. It would be good to talk face to face and show you our shop. To be honest, the action is here now. The area is growing in leaps and bounds. Real estate is very reasonable, people are retiring and have money and want handmade art. We stumbled on a gold mine! I am so swamped with work it is amazing. You really want a career change, I can show you how to be a jeweler. I have found it to be a field with no upper limit in challenges and the potential to be creative. I think, with no disrespect intended, if you went to Alaska you would spend nine or ten months inside, or going to places you were familiar with. The other two, you would have no time for recreation as the house would need fixing, and other things you could not do in the bitter cold. Plumbing, siding, roofing, lawn. The environment is so severe it alone takes severe adaptation. Survival is a full time job. All of the events there are based on survival in one way or another. The Iditarod is based on a town that was dying from disease, and the only way to the town was dog sled. It took a month for the medication to arrive and they buried a few folks in the meantime. A lot of folks have forgotten that part. Plus the change in your culture. It takes a few years for Brits to get used to the US. Homesickness never expected, language differences, driving differences, a lot of other subtle issues. I was shocked by the cultural differences when I went from New England to Alaska even knowing about the cold and the challenges it presented. An house sold down the street here for 54000$ with 3/4 acre. Here, you want to start a business, you get a liscence, hang up a shingle, and follow through and you are in. There is a bald eagle nest right down the street, with alligators, lizards, egrets, storks, fishing is great, and the people are so used to being ripped off, if you have ethics they come back and bring friends. Get used to America, build equity, build a new career, and then branch out. There is a real nice hotel/resteraunt with crappy beach where you and the Mrs could stay, meet people, drive around, see the inland Floriduh, see the coastline. We are a short drive to where they filmed Creature of the Black Lagoon, Tampa is 45 minutes away. The Drag Racing museum is a short drive, fleamarkets galore, good seafood, clean air, warm water to swim. A lot of movie stars and music stars stay here. Adrian Paul was in the fleamarket yesterday, Billy Idol comes here, Sean Connery has an home somewhere near here, Donald Trump is building a major up scale condo in Tampa. The scenery is breathtaking! Small steps make major results.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 12:08:19 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 12:08:19 GMT -5
On the donald thing - I havent quite got my mind round being a follower yet.
I'd rather be an inventor than a follower Doc.
I know one thing for sure, i'm not happy wallowing.
Mark.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 12:37:57 GMT -5
Post by docone31 on Jan 31, 2005 12:37:57 GMT -5
Life in stasis is death. I got to the point in my life where I couldn't stand another moment. My wife's ex, after 24 yrs of marriage, decided to come out of the closet. My wife was stunned He had been living a double life. He was a top programmer. My wife's brother was one of the first computer geeks with Gates. He is in the first publicity photo with the gang. It sounds like you want change. Change is good. You got your backbone, something you can fall back on. I so hated my field I would rather die than do one more day. I learned, what you did when you were eight years old, what you liked best is what will be filling. Programmers face interesting challenges. Because they can work with these machines, they miss, do not see, things that are fundamental for other people. You cannot change some things, you have to change all things. What works for real will return, and what brought the dead end will pass. Uncommon sense must become common sense. Everything must be looked at, changed, modified. Even simple things we do not really look at, and just do must be revamped. Small changes bring small results coordinated with the past. Large changes bring chaos that turns into a new life. Programmers look forward with both eyes, hunters use all their senses and look out of the side of their eyes. Every corner cut is a corner that must be relearned! If it is easy, you missed something! I used to wake up everymorning, hung over, full of remorse, regretting the past and dreading the future. Never living in the now. I woke up and thought, Oh God, another day. Now I wake up and think, thanks God, another day! I have learned, you cannot keep it if you do not have a way to give it to someone. Casting pearls before swine, it is good practice. Soon you learn to cast effectively. You learn more by teaching than the students, if, you want the student to do better than the teacher. Mark, today is the day!!!! It is not, you cannot, it is why not? Sometimes there are valid reasons, sometimes there is fear, sometimes it is different but so are we. Better to go down believing in something than just going down. That is what Alaska taught me. You do not have to be declared dead and discarded. I will, and others will share what we can. Dream on, and reach for your dream. Understand the reality will fall short, but the journey will be the truth. Be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Then be a sheep in wolf's clothing. Take a real risk but know and live with the reality if you missed something. I was where you were. It took going away and not being able to come back to help me see what I was missing. Learn to make a knife and how to throw it accurately. Learn to set stones in the scales of the knife. Apply it to everything. Its gonna be ok.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 14:30:07 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 14:30:07 GMT -5
Flippin heck mate - i must admit i'm struggling with your words!!! I get the feeling i'm out of my depth with your thoughts. I thought i'd found someone to relate to - but in actual fact - I cannot keep up with you Doc. Sure - definately change is on the cards so struck, but I'm not sure "Uncommon sense must become common sense." about that kind of stuff. I asked, thats a definate. Not sure Im so deep as to appreciate the answer though. I'll ask this one then Docone, Done any rocks recently? How about that? Look Doc - I dont want my teeth cracking, I dont really want to die in Alaska cos of the cold either - i'm sure theres a better way to enjoy the wilderness. Youve kind of shown me a hard way doc. With a touch of the piss take in there too! Nowt wrong with that. Mark
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 14:32:33 GMT -5
Post by Original Admin on Jan 31, 2005 14:32:33 GMT -5
And of course if I met you I would give your hand a grip stronger than youve had before.
Mark.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 17:04:24 GMT -5
Post by docone31 on Jan 31, 2005 17:04:24 GMT -5
All of my lapidary has been doing the emerald at my shop, cutting turquoise to do repairs, and blending in turquoise in a gold setting with a 1. diamond. Between the teeth, the shop, and the house, I have had no time at all. That is what I have worked to preserve these years, I love it, and the price is, a shop is like a child. When it is hungry, or needs, your time is its. A similiarity in programmers. Jenne was married to her ex for 24 yrs. When we discussed Floriduh back in Oregon, I told her of what could happen. She wanted a cheery note instead of telling what could happen. Well, what could happen did, and then so. She was actually prepared and managed to stay at least out of my way untill we could manouever to a better stand. Hurricane Charley got us out of the snake pit. I know programmers, I know how they operate, I also have seen how they can adapt to anything once they know in their being the rules. Know the rules and you can play the game. Programmers are good, valuable folks. They perform a service I certainly cannot. You, and they can also do anything. When you can defeat the fecal fairy you can skate the rough road. I will tell you, the rough road is a thrill a minute! Especially when you leave no trail on rice paper. I am going to bet, you did something back when you were eight that you did by yourself, it absorbed you, occupied your creative self, and you learned. Back when I was eight, I got costume jewelery and took the gemstones out. I catagorized the jewels, learned the settings. I went to streams to watch mica flakes precipitate down and watched where they laid. Later, I became a jeweler, and did panning for gold. The mica flakes showed me where the sediments were and I applied it to panning. I would deliberately plant a large rock in a steam to collect colour for later panning in Alaska. No one has yet shaken my hand where they did not have to let go. My 30yr old son, a marital artist and prior body builder broke out in sweat, turned grey, and let go. His hand was yellow for days after. A man has a solid grip. I bet you ain't no girly guy. I respect that. You will find your place. Keep pushing for answer, look the way of the hunter, leave no tracks on rice paper, never brush a door on the way through. Always turn a strong arm through the door. Always test yourself even with things you do well. Good enough is not enough! The best falls short. The gift of desperation is the key to inner strength. Never get angry, it makes one weak. ANGER Another Nasty Grandiose Emotional Response Never say the word nice. Always make it more challenging than it has to be. Oh yeah, I did get to grind off a name on an huge crystal block, sand, and polish it to a mirror shine for a customer who never paid for it. That is life. Mark, you gonna be alright.
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 19:31:45 GMT -5
Post by krazydiamond on Jan 31, 2005 19:31:45 GMT -5
what a thread!
who is Mark? who is Andy?
Doc, they should make a movie of your story.
KD
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Alaska
Jan 31, 2005 21:17:51 GMT -5
Post by docone31 on Jan 31, 2005 21:17:51 GMT -5
Krazy, you and a few others might understand. But today, who else would sit long enough with no sex, violence, destruction of property to begin to understand. No movie there, too boring.
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billyd
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2004
Posts: 157
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Alaska
Feb 14, 2005 19:35:04 GMT -5
Post by billyd on Feb 14, 2005 19:35:04 GMT -5
hi d by any chance can you help someone with low self esteem,and deppresion got quite a lift from posts. thought i was unlucky with women & life,if i have bugged you's ignore me. billyd
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Alaska
Feb 14, 2005 19:49:15 GMT -5
Post by krazydiamond on Feb 14, 2005 19:49:15 GMT -5
i didn't think Scots ever had low self esteem OR depression! where in thistle country are you, BillyD?
i think i must have already told you, i have friends in Glasgow ( lol, more than one), i've been to Loch Lomond, Loch Tay, Inverness, pushed sheep out of the road with the rental car, woke up SURROUNDED by sheep trying to eat the bloody tyres (spelled it that way for your benefit).
i washed in a waterfall SO COLD i thought bits were gonna drop off, never saw midgies before descend like a cloud and loved EVERY moment i was in Scotland. well..except for the beef burgers. those sucked. maybe they've improved in 20 years.
cheers, BillyD.
KD
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billyd
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2004
Posts: 157
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Alaska
Feb 14, 2005 19:57:45 GMT -5
Post by billyd on Feb 14, 2005 19:57:45 GMT -5
KD sorry to tell you it's true it's a family thing,we all end up overly confident or withdrawn&scared to try things. But this site & people have given me a wee burst of happyness & get up and go so ta to you all. ;D that's more than i have let go for years.braw billyd p.s east coast montrose between dundee&aberdeen.
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