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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on Apr 22, 2010 12:01:55 GMT -5
to get stubborn stone off of your dop just place them in the freezer for about 10 - 15 minutes and give them a gentle tap and they just about jump off
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Apr 26, 2010 23:07:30 GMT -5
I made a lightbulb heater for my cabs, but not the wax. I couldn't find a way to make the receptacle for the wax.
The hot-melt glue pot I've been using is not made for dop wax & is probably getting the wax too hot & makes it brittle. The dop wax breaks off almost every time, not off of the stone, but between the stone & dowel. It always leaves a chunk of wax on the stone. I'm going to try gel super glue & see if I'm successful at that.
I'll keep you posted.
Lynn
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Apr 27, 2010 18:02:14 GMT -5
Lynn, I don't bother to dop anymore except for working with small stuff. I've tried superglue, and it works...kind of. the stones still come off the dop stick on occasion and the superglue is kind of a pain to scrape off the stone when you're done polishing. The super glue doesn't cure properly if the dop stick or stone is wet at all, so if the stone comes off during grinding, you'll have to reattach it using a dry stick. My best results for dopping stones was to heat the stone over a candle, heat the dop wax in a small pyrex bowl over a second candle, and then add a small square of masking tape to the back of the cab. once the stone and wax are hot, I would then dip the dop stick in the wax, making sure to get as much wax built up as possible, then apply the hot stone, and then dipping my fingers in cold water first, I would spread the wax over the surface area of the back of the stone.
It sounds like you're not building up enough wax on the dop stick and there is only a thin layer connecting the stone to the stick?
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Post by phil on Apr 28, 2010 17:43:04 GMT -5
Lynn, use a clean old tuna can. Cut a hole that it'll just fitr in and the light bulb will do the rest.
I've never had a case where the wax won't stick to the stick.... Are your sticks dry when you dip them in the wax? What kind of dowel are you using? I buy mine at the hardware store (36 and 48 inch long hardwood) and then cut them to length.
Phil
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Apr 30, 2010 15:47:24 GMT -5
Yes, the dowels are hardwood from the hardware store. They are dry when I dip them in the hot wax. From the way the wax just breaks, I'm sure the hot melt glue pot is the culprit. If the wax gets too hot, it's brittle.
Right now I've got a bunch of large nails that I've sanded the heads flat, cut them off to about 4" & have used gel super glue to stick them to the stones. I haven't had a single one pop off yet. It sounds like the way to go. I'm not looking forward to having to remove the stones using acetone as I've been told.
Lynn
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agatemaggot
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2006
Posts: 2,195
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Post by agatemaggot on Apr 30, 2010 16:47:18 GMT -5
We sand the head of a large nail until it is perfectly flat. We then put one drop of super glue on the nail head and stand the nail on the cab blank while it is laying on a flat surface. When I remove the nail I hold it in one hand and heat the shank of the nail about 1 inch back from the stone with a propane torch. Hold the stone over a towel or dish rag and in about 15 seconds the stone will drop off onto the towel or, it can be pushed off with very little pressure. A small amount of glue will remain on the stone but it can easily be lifted off with a box knife ! I have heard that freezing will allow the stone to be easily removed, also, soaking overnight in a glass of water ! I haven't the time to mess with hot wax or the paraphernalia that goes with it, or, volatile chemicals.
We simply glue it and get er done !
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RedwoodRocks
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 762
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Post by RedwoodRocks on Apr 30, 2010 18:48:21 GMT -5
I have been using the super glue method after getting tired of the time it takes to use the wax method - waiting for the wax to heat up, doing batches of dops at one time, waiting for the wax to cool.
I put a dab of medium gel super glue on the pre-form, apply the dop stick (hard wood dowel) and give a squirt of the super glue accelarator. The accelarator is supposed to create an instant bond, but I usually give the bond 5 minutes or so to dry.
The down side is removing the finished cab from dop stick. I put the finished cab in a bowl of water and let it sit in the water until the cabs separates from the dop stick. The usual time is overnight. I have tried the freezer method, but I have not had good or faster results than using a bowl of water.
Cal
P.S. I have most of a box of green dop wax. If you want to try the wax method, send me a PM.
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Post by FrogAndBearCreations on Apr 30, 2010 19:21:32 GMT -5
freezer method is only good for the dopped stones, won't work for super glue
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Post by phil on May 2, 2010 17:07:50 GMT -5
Lynn, Sounds like either bad wax, or too hot for sure. I've also used an old iron upside down where I can set a tuna can of wax to heat, plus my stones. Plenty of room. The real benefit is I can adjust the heat on the iron. I usually use the cotton setting on the one I got at the thrift store for a few bucks. nailed a couple 2x4's to make a stand for it, and it works better than my light bulb/can setup. Hope you find a method that works! Phil
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on May 8, 2010 0:23:41 GMT -5
I glued up 15 cabs on large nails with the heads sanded flat & the shafts cut down to about 4". I didn't lose a single cab! I soaked a few in acetone for a few hours, but still couldn't get them off. I've heard that you can heat the nail about an inch from the cab with a torch. I'll try that.
For traditional dop wax, many have recommended an inverted clothes iron. I bought one at a thrift store for $5. I'm still going to give dop wax another chance. I was looking around for a small can to put the wax in on top of the iron. Then I remembered those Altoids tins I have. On instructables.com they're the basis of so many projects.
Lynn
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 5:45:18 GMT -5
Greetings Ladies & Gents, i am with Jack (Yorkshire) too, although i had done it between 1980 - 1983. PVC wood glue on: Use a generous quantity & gently lay the stone or slab in to the glue & let is set under it's own weight, leave for at least 24 - 36 hours to harden. PVC wood glue off: Gently lay the stone or slab & glue must be fully submerged in to sealed container of Acetone solution for at least 24 hours. The dop stick / plate must be preportional to the stone or slab, no point using a half inch diameter wooden stick for a 8 inch slab as it will fail, the maximum over hang should be no more 2 inches of the slab that is to be glued. A woodwork expert had created me several detachable dop sticks & plates of various sizes. -- I hail from (The Barony of Seabegs) Bonnybridge, Stirlingshire, U.K, where aliens sometimes come for a visit & about 4 miles west from this monstrosity! Sticky's: Vendors worldwide, How to identify rocks & minerals!, FAQS: Add Tags:Save money on expensive grits & polishes!
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Post by phil on May 8, 2010 13:02:59 GMT -5
Warning about using any method that requires acetone to remove it. 1. Don't do the acetone indoors unless you like losing brain cells. 2. Don't do the acetone anywhere there is an open flame or other heat source. 3. Don't use the acetone on any stone that has been stabilized. It dissolves the resin and your beautiful finish is gone forever. 4. Don't smoke anywhere near an open container of acetone.
Phil
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rock
having dreams about rocks
Metamorphosed Mind
Member since June 2007
Posts: 62
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Post by rock on May 18, 2010 16:56:54 GMT -5
Heres my 2 cents on doping. I'm not going to cover every facet (yuck yuck) of doping but just the nuggets of wisdom I have gained from experience. First off I use my fingers to hold anything above 3/4 inch, so thats that. Works great no hot wax, no fumes, been done this way around the world along time. So why break new ground? Anything real small 3/4 inch or smaller will either be done with "Diamond Dop" (dark brown red wax, works very well) or thick super glue cured with baking soda sealed with nail polish(for faceting heat sensitive stones). For cabbing the small stones Diamond Dop is king as it cures quickly just by cooling and is strong and water proof. Most flawless material of any type, if it has no cracks to begin with will not crack even of "over heated" while doping. The real danger with over heating is causing the wax to bubble or smoke which means it has become brittle, lost its pizazz, and will not hold under stress. So remember over heat the stone not the wax! Most people tend to under heat the stone and you will always get a better bond with a nice hot stone. If your doping fine opal, and how many of us really are, OK be real careful! But until you have truly over heated a stone and destroyed a valuable piece of material all on your own, it's all theory and most opals are tougher that you think.
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