grizman
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since July 2011
Posts: 878
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Post by grizman on Dec 29, 2012 20:01:49 GMT -5
Hi, I hope I am not in the wrong section of this forum. If I am, forgive me. I just need some good "coaching". I have done some searches, but I did not find the kind of info that I am in need of. I'm not new to rock tumbling, but I am getting more and more involved in the hobby all the time. I now think that I'd like to do some cutting of my rocks before I tumble them. I can't afford a slab saw due to all the other expensive hobbies I enjoy. I am more interested in cutting or "slabbing" my small (1"-2") rocks and then tumbling them. At this time I am not into jewelry making, just producing nature's beauty for my own enjoyment. If others like them also, GREAT! I have heard that a tile saw will work, but I need some real coaching on what to avoid, what to look for, and any and all suggestions. I have heard that that some saws are very dirty (messy). That is not what I need, as I do not have a shop area to work in, just a finished garage. I have heard some say that you can cut with a dry diamond blade. Others say that it needs to be mineral oil lubricated. Can the rocks be "hand-fed" for the cutting? Maybe my "wish" is not very practical for me...I don't know? I need name brand suggestions, models, best kind of blade (again brands, models), where to shop for the saws, etc. I am hoping to be able to cut through at least 1 1/4"-1 11/2" thick rocks, but I could be satisfied with 1" if need be--due to cost, practicality, etc. If anyone can tell me what you use, like, have good success with---without making a huge mess, I would be very grateful.
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Post by deb193redux on Dec 29, 2012 20:32:52 GMT -5
you can "just" do this with a tile saw but it is wet and messy. You might rig a box and shield, but overall a lot of spray. Almost any saw, but buy a good blade like the MK 225 Hot DOg.
Otherwise, you can try a used 8" trim saw, and use water w/ RV antifreeze. Get a MK 303 blade, and if the saw does not have a little vise, add one.
The cut depth is about 1/3 the blade, or a little less depending on how the table is positioned. You can learn to gingerly hold and delicately rotate the rock on the blade to cut over 2" depth.
These small saws do not need oil. Drain after use unless it has a rust inhibitor (like RV antifreeze).
IMO, a little used Rock Rascal with 6" saw and a 6" grinding wheel might be best for you. Use 303 blade and change pulley to speed it up a little.
Happy cutting
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 29, 2012 21:46:58 GMT -5
Could you tell me more about using RV antifreeze in a trim saw? I've been using mine with plain water. What's the ratio of water to antifreeze? How toxic is the antifreeze? I dump my water in a hole in the woods behind my house.
Thanks, Rob
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Post by deb193redux on Dec 29, 2012 22:56:23 GMT -5
"RV" pink antifreeze is non-toxic and safe for RV drinking water lines. Use 1:4 or 1:3 pink:water.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 30, 2012 0:05:28 GMT -5
Is the purpose of the antifreeze to lubricate the blade while cutting or just as a rust inhibitor so you don't have to always drain the saw?
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Post by deb193redux on Dec 30, 2012 0:07:47 GMT -5
both. it soes make water wetter, and has good heat dispersing property, and you do not have to drain saw. blade life longer too/
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 30, 2012 0:19:34 GMT -5
Thanks! Sounds like a good deal all the way around.
Rob
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grizman
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since July 2011
Posts: 878
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Post by grizman on Dec 30, 2012 12:18:23 GMT -5
OK, Thanks for the good info. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the recommended tile saw brand(s) and minimum hp rating I should consider, and is a 7" blade large enough to cut through a 1"-2" rock? Again, thanks for all your help and suggestions.
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Post by phil on Dec 30, 2012 14:43:04 GMT -5
my 2¢ - For the beginner, the $50 or $60 price is perfect for one of the tile saws at Home depot... And with a 7 inch blade you'll be able to cut up to approx 3 inch thick rock. Then once you get serious, you can look a buying a more expensive small saw. The lapidary 6 inch trim saws are intended as "trim" saws, not slab saws.... the tile saw will take the abuse cutting small agates and other hard rocks dish out. Just change out the tile blade for a good rock blade as others have recommended. And as long as you drain out the water everytime you're done and wipe it down, no need for anti-rust additives or RV antifreeze or anything other than a $10 bottle of water additive lubricant/coolant you can get at any rock shop. A little goes a looooong way. Phil
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 30, 2012 18:42:12 GMT -5
Most people who use tile saws use them outside. If you use it indoors expect a mess.
Lee
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Minnesota Daniel
freely admits to licking rocks
A COUPLE LAKERS
Member since August 2011
Posts: 891
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Post by Minnesota Daniel on Dec 30, 2012 23:09:53 GMT -5
I have a 7" wet tile saw with an overhead blade. Don't do that. All kinds of issues (for rock cutting in particular) that I won't get into here.
I'd recommend a saw with a 6 or 8 inch blade (not 7") because there are many more blade options available for cutting rock. Saw blade under the table, not overhead. Table top metal not plastic/carbon fiber. Speed around 3,500 rpm, not faster. I have seen saws like this on Craigslist for as little as $30. They always say "Used only to remodel kitchen", or something like that. Seems like a reasonable story, and that would be very light use compared to what we put tile saws through.
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Post by johnjsgems on Dec 31, 2012 9:16:37 GMT -5
Daniel, what was the problem with the overhead blade? I was going to suggest the MK170. It has a pump that feeds the blade instead of a splash so not very messy. It is REALLY NOISY though. It has a 2" cutting depth but we cut geodes up to 3" by rolling them. It comes with a thick 303P blade. BD has a nice 7" X .030" 303C blade now.
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Post by deb193redux on Dec 31, 2012 14:57:49 GMT -5
I think the angle of the cut on overhead saws is very unfortunate, and much more prone to grab the rock.
as for RV antifreeze, I would not use it in a tile saw pan. it sprays out too much water, and I usually keep a hose trickle going into the saw. If you got a used 8" trim saw, I would use it to avoid draining out the internal tank every time.
If the rock is the right shape or you are experienced at handling it, you can just manage 3", maybe actually 2.75. but this assumes rolling or flipping that leaves scars. it is ok since you are going to tumble. it would not produce very good slabs at all.
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Minnesota Daniel
freely admits to licking rocks
A COUPLE LAKERS
Member since August 2011
Posts: 891
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Post by Minnesota Daniel on Dec 31, 2012 17:37:02 GMT -5
Daniel, what was the problem with the overhead blade? I was going to suggest the MK170. It has a pump that feeds the blade instead of a splash so not very messy. It is REALLY NOISY though. It has a 2" cutting depth but we cut geodes up to 3" by rolling them. It comes with a thick 303P blade. BD has a nice 7" X .030" 303C blade now. John, That's the saw I have. I've cut a lot of rock with it, but I wouldn't have spent that kind of money if I'd have known about the saw's short comings. First, the arm holding the blade over the table is an absolute limit to the height of the rock you want to cut. You can't turn it over and run the rock through on the other side. As you point out you can roll it, but it's tricky sometimes. So even if the specs seem to indicate that it cuts thicker material than a 6" under the table bladed saw, for the way many of us use a tile saw, it's not exactly a straight forward comparison. As you point out, the saw requires a pump to blast the blade with water. Perhaps not as messy, never tried the other type saw, but the pump is actually made for outdoor fountains or water gardens. It barely fits in the tank and keeps falling over or else the hose line kinks. If either happens, not enough (or no) water gets to the blade, so you have to watch it like a hawk to prevent a disaster. I burned a blade up before realizing it wasn't getting enough water. The table is some kind of plastic, albeit very dense, good plastic. The problem is if a the blade gets even a little dished, or a rock binds even a little, the blade pulls the rock into the table enough to start gouging it out. When that happens, the table right next to the blade will no longer be perpendicular to the blade. Now it's really hard to prevent a rock from binding, which just makes the problem get worse. It runs at 5,500 rpm, quite a bit faster than most tile saws. You have to move a rock like agate through very slowly or you risk damaging the blade. It can get pretty damn hot even with the water blasting away. I think a 7" blade cutting agate is ideally supposed to turn at about 3,500 rpm. Addendum: Oh, I forgot about the brushes. They wore out a lot sooner than I would have expected. MK wanted $18 for replacements. I found the same ones for $14 somewhere else on line, but with the shipping it was still a huge, "Ouch!" Now if I had understood all these flaws when I started using it, I might have avoided some of the problems I've had. I would still not have purchased it in the first place though. The plastic table is a serious enough drawback alone.
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