tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 6, 2014 12:55:08 GMT -5
Saturday 4/5/14 I started up my UV18 for the first time. It has about 12# of rock and 2# of ceramic in it which appears to be somewhere near the 3/4 mark. The rocks are some of my old tumbles that I wasn't happy with the shine and a couple pounds of stuff I had ready for 240. I was happy back then but have gotten better shines lately thanks to experience and what I've learned here. Figured this would make a good test run. I was surprised at how "gentle" the action is. Guess I was expecting something more "violent". I have probably opened it way more often than I need to but just can't help myself. Totally apprehensive that the action would stop while we were sleeping I'm surprised I slept so well. It's been a little over 24 hours running now. I pulled one stone out and couldn't feel anything "gritty" and it was very smooth. I thought about cleaning out the bowl but decided to go the full 48 hours per Bikerrandy's tutorial. I did have to calm my paranoia about possibly having too much water and stopped it for a few so I could stick my hand in down to the bottom. All seems well, no puddle and no grit that I could feel. Now that a slurry has formed I'm noticing a couple things that I didn't at first. Some of the smaller and flatter pieces are clinging to the side of the bowl and climbing up towards the rim. I assume that with the cover on they get knocked off when they hit the top as I've seen one or two peek out over the rim with the cover off. It also seems like there is a "breaking point" in the speed of the action as slurry forms. The rocks don't seem to get going as fast as when there was no slurry even though I'm as sure as a newbie can be that it is indeed wet enough. Can anyone comment on these observations? I'm so thrilled with how well this is all going that I may go ahead with the process. Originally I had planned on waiting until next weekend for the next cycle. I thought I'd like to baby sit it so to speak while I'm still learning. The 10 hours I'm away for work has me a bit worried but I am excited to see what comes out of this as soon as possible. Guess I should just get over it and dive in. Sorry if this seems inane but I had to tell someone but the wife about this. Her eyes kinda been glazing over a little as I babble and repeat myself. Here is what I got out of this "test run". Well some of it anyway....too much to sort through and some just junk All this was "first run". It was all I had ready to mix in with the re-tumbled stuff Local material from early tumbles. Wasn't happy with the shine originally. Lakers, Crazy Lace and misc. other Mexican rough. Again redone materials. Thought these deserved a closer look. Overall I consider this run a success. I did have some pieces break/chip and some pieces with mixed hardness undercut pretty bad. Did not seem to do any harm to the better rocks though. The borax burnish after a 5 day run in polish really did set the shine off, don't skip that.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 6, 2014 13:42:43 GMT -5
I don't have a UV18, but I have a Lot-O. Both being vibratory tumblers, I would think they'd work pretty much the same. I've found that the 220 stage is the only stage that really needs close observation. Since this is the most course grit, it wears away rock faster, making the slurry thicker faster. I usually give my Lot-O a couple squirts of water within the first 6 hours. I only squirt if things have slowed to almost a stop. Then I'm careful to just give it a squirt or two at a time and wait for it to get all mixed with the slurry before squirting more. When I first started, there were a couple of times that I got the slurry way too wet.
In the next stages, you'll be starting with a finer grit, which doesn't add as much rock dust to the slurry, so it doesn't dry out so quickly. In 500 and beyond, I hardly squirt any water. I usually run each stage for 2-3 days, so I might squirt once a day, but no more, sometimes less. I prefer to start my 220 grit on a weekend when I'm around more, but the other stages I'll start whenever.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 6, 2014 14:34:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply Rob. I think I may be a little on the wet side right now but as said there's no water on the bottom and no "milk shake", everything is still moving. I am going to try to leave it alone until tonight before bed.
Probably just being overcautious with my new toy and I think I will go ahead with the next stage tomorrow. Rock on!
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on Apr 8, 2014 12:22:21 GMT -5
Congratulations on the new toy! Sounds like you have things well in hand. My first use was a disaster, way too much water, the action stopped and everything sank. It probably pays to be somewhat paranoid with the vibratory tumbler, they aren't as forgiving as rotaries in my vast experience :-). Just out of curiosity, had you considered using 120 grit? If not why not? That's what I used, and my last batch came out quite smooth, but am I ruining the bowl too fast unnecessarily?
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jjdub
starting to shine!
Member since December 2013
Posts: 27
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Post by jjdub on Apr 8, 2014 14:30:00 GMT -5
I've had my UV 18 for a couple months but have yet to fire it up. I was curious on the grit as well. Do most people use a straight 220 for the first stage in the vibe or do you use a 120/220 blend?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 8, 2014 17:23:32 GMT -5
I was told to use 120/220 if you're starting the rocks in the vibe, but use graded 220 if they were rough tumbled in a rotary. I have always rough tumbled in a rotary first, so I switched to straight 220 and it works great.
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,343
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Post by panamark on Apr 8, 2014 17:48:43 GMT -5
Sorry if this seems inane but I had to tell someone but the wife about this. Her eyes kinda been glazing over a little as I babble and repeat myself. Ken, that made me laugh out loud. Same story here. No one has discussed the barrel climbing. I have a really old vibe, but the rocks and ceramic totally climb the walls. In fact I would guess about 15% of the material including ceramics sticks to the wall for part of its travel up and around. Especially the small and flat pieces. As the grit/slurry gets thicker and stickier it is more common. But it doesn't seem to be an issue with finished product. I do run my vibe probably with a bit more water than others because of this, but after many batches I have kind of figured out what my particular model likes. You will develop the same intuition with a bit more experience. Couple more things: When you first start a new batch, the rocks and grit really seem to suck up water so you need to check quite frequently at first until their thirst slows down. It is a sinking feeling to walk into the shop in the morning and not hear the nice circular noise, but rather a dull hum from the rocks not cycling. To help with this I always soak my rocks for at least a couple hours in water before they go into the barrel. If they seem to be still drinking too much when I go to bed, I just stop the machine for the night. (I used to set an alarm, but that got old quick!) I mist them in the morning and continue. Good luck.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 9, 2014 0:23:53 GMT -5
Congratulations on the new toy! Sounds like you have things well in hand. My first use was a disaster, way too much water, the action stopped and everything sank. It probably pays to be somewhat paranoid with the vibratory tumbler, they aren't as forgiving as rotaries in my vast experience :-). Just out of curiosity, had you considered using 120 grit? If not why not? That's what I used, and my last batch came out quite smooth, but am I ruining the bowl too fast unnecessarily? This is the first time I've used a vibe of any sort. What I know about them only comes from reading this board. Personally I'll stick with 220 as what I'll be putting in the vibe will already be roughed out in the rotary. It is what most of the experienced folks here do. It would be my best guess that the coarser the grit the faster the bowl wear would be. Many do use the ungraded 120/220 however with success, at least from what I've read. Jugglerguy has a relevant comment in this thread and more experience than I.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 9, 2014 0:46:00 GMT -5
Sorry if this seems inane but I had to tell someone but the wife about this. Her eyes kinda been glazing over a little as I babble and repeat myself. Ken, that made me laugh out loud. Same story here. No one has discussed the barrel climbing. I have a really old vibe, but the rocks and ceramic totally climb the walls. In fact I would guess about 15% of the material including ceramics sticks to the wall for part of its travel up and around. Especially the small and flat pieces. As the grit/slurry gets thicker and stickier it is more common. But it doesn't seem to be an issue with finished product. I do run my vibe probably with a bit more water than others because of this, but after many batches I have kind of figured out what my particular model likes. You will develop the same intuition with a bit more experience. Couple more things: When you first start a new batch, the rocks and grit really seem to suck up water so you need to check quite frequently at first until their thirst slows down. It is a sinking feeling to walk into the shop in the morning and not hear the nice circular noise, but rather a dull hum from the rocks not cycling. To help with this I always soak my rocks for at least a couple hours in water before they go into the barrel. If they seem to be still drinking too much when I go to bed, I just stop the machine for the night. (I used to set an alarm, but that got old quick!) I mist them in the morning and continue. Good luck. Good tip about giving the rocks a soak. Think I'll try that next time although that'll likely be weeks from now. I did go ahead and start the 600 Monday. Ten hours away from home for work and I got back to find a particularly thick mixture just barely moving. Before I left today (Tuesday) I spritzed enough to get it going as fast as I thought it should and then gave it a few extra shots. This time when I got back it was moving a lot better and only needed a little more water. Must have a thirsty one. Also good to know that you can shut it down and restart like that. I was under the impression that that was a no no. Thanks for that info and talking about the climbers.
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,343
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Post by panamark on Apr 9, 2014 8:41:06 GMT -5
Yes you can successfully stop and restart, iff the stuff doesn't dry into cement overnight, ha. Just be sure to give it a spray and then watch it for a bit when you turn it back on to be sure everything is moving.
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fixfireleo
starting to shine!
Member since March 2014
Posts: 30
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Post by fixfireleo on Apr 11, 2014 20:21:34 GMT -5
my first vibe was a failure. i think i just tumble rocks too big for the vibe. so i'm going to try the first 2 steps in the rotary then switch for polish. that way they will get ground down a bit and corners wore away. good luck. btw...someone told me, if they arent really moving much, the rocks will vibrate dimples into each other, like on a golf ball.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 13, 2014 14:07:41 GMT -5
The 220 went pretty good. Although both days I left it running to go to work I came home to find thick slurry and slow action. No seeming harm though. Went ahead and ran the 600 next from 4/7 thru 4/9. First day back from work everything had slowed down and thickened up. Next day before I left I shot in a little extra water and that kept everything going good. After rinsing the rocks off they had a nice almost shine to them. When I went to do the wash/burnish before going to polish I got a lesson. Borrowing from my rotary methods I added a small amount of ivory soap shavings in with the borax. In short order a healthy foam began to form. The foam became more and more robust and after only a few minutes everything began to slow way down. Can't be good I thought and rinsed that all out and went with the borax only. The rocks came out pretty darn clean, a few even have some cracks and upon checking they didn't hold any grit.
Waited until this weekend to start the polish. Just wanted to be able to watch the progress. The bowl I have for polish only is a bit different than the bowl that came with the tumbler. The one that came with has a smooth interior surface and the other has a rougher grooved surface which I didn't see until I had unpacked it for use as my polish bowl. After the first 24 hours there are a lot of tiny pieces of black plastic mixed in with the polish slurry. I read somewhere here on the board that thumlers had had issues with bowls wearing prematurely and had possibly changed bowl suppliers. Looks like maybe I got one of the old and one of the new. Not too concerned about the plastic particles though since its the polish bowl and there is no grit to accelerate wear. That and I took out a random piece that has pretty fair shine already. For all I know there were plastic bits in the first runs that were ground into nothing. Plan on letting the polish go the 3 to 5 days Bikerrandys tutorial suggests.
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fixfireleo
starting to shine!
Member since March 2014
Posts: 30
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Post by fixfireleo on Apr 14, 2014 16:08:40 GMT -5
tkv...you had good results with 2 days each of step one and 2? my tumbler says 2-5 days, so i thought i should go 5. it would be nice if that's not necessary. does it depend on the material? i'm doing a lot of silicates. dont forget to post pics of your finished stones please!! =D
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moogie
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since December 2013
Posts: 77
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Post by moogie on Apr 14, 2014 16:13:22 GMT -5
Wow, that's good to know about the Ivory...I would probably have done the Borax and Ivory, now I'll only do Borax. That's exciting progress! I haven't gone beyond the first stage in my V10, I work in very long stretches so I need a three day weekend to attempt the next stage. Can't wait to see those pictures!
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 15, 2014 12:10:58 GMT -5
tkv...you had good results with 2 days each of step one and 2? my tumbler says 2-5 days, so i thought i should go 5. it would be nice if that's not necessary. does it depend on the material? i'm doing a lot of silicates. dont forget to post pics of your finished stones please!! =D That's what I ran. 48 hours each stage, 240 grit and 600 grit. Bear in mind that many of the stones had been through all stages in a rotary and were from my earliest less shiny work. A couple of pounds were newly roughed. I usually run all my rocks for a long time in 60/90, as long as 3 to 4 months so they are pretty smooth going in to the next steps. I did check several of the newer stones between steps and they looked good so I saw no need to recharge or run longer. The rocks are in their 4th day of the polish run now. I checked one today that happened to be a rock I got out of a bag of aquarium accents. It wasn't the shiniest rock of the batch it originally came out of. It has a very good shine on it now, way better than it went in so I must assume I'm on the right track. I know from reading this board that many members have success with 48 hour runs after a good roughing out in their rotary tumblers. Also from reading here I gather that if your starting the process in the vibe with rougher more naturally shaped rocks longer run times and or multiple runs in 220 are appropriate. I'll post pics when they are done. Just wish I'd taken some "before" shots.
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Post by Hard Rock Cafe on Apr 15, 2014 12:31:28 GMT -5
Just a few comments from another UV18 owner. 1. You can fill the bowl all the way to the top if you have enough material. The only drawback is you have to be careful taking off the lid because small pellets like to cling to it. 2. I don't know how much grit or polish you're using, but you may try cutting back quite a bit. I've been able to get good results with 3 tsp. 3. You're limited to 2-3 goose egg size rocks in a UV18, otherwise the action slows too much. 4. Yes, your rocks will hammer each other if you have too much water or not enough rock to get the cyclical action.
It sounds like things are going well! It's really a treat when you've got it figured out.
Chuck
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 15, 2014 13:11:42 GMT -5
Just a few comments from another UV18 owner. 1. You can fill the bowl all the way to the top if you have enough material. The only drawback is you have to be careful taking off the lid because small pellets like to cling to it. 2. I don't know how much grit or polish you're using, but you may try cutting back quite a bit. I've been able to get good results with 3 tsp. 3. You're limited to 2-3 goose egg size rocks in a UV18, otherwise the action slows too much. 4. Yes, your rocks will hammer each other if you have too much water or not enough rock to get the cyclical action. It sounds like things are going well! It's really a treat when you've got it figured out. Chuck Thanks for the info Chuck .... I have the bowl about 3/4 full. Most of the rocks are on the smaller side with the largest around half-dollar size about 3/4 inch thick. A fair amount are around the 3/4 to 1 inch range. Good to know about the larger pieces though. Have some Bahia agates I want to do in the future and I expect some will fall in that size range. You've saved me some experimenting. I had used 6 tbs. of the 240, 600 and polish. The polish slurry does look a bit thicker than I've seen it described here. What I'm using so far is about 1/2 of what the instructions that came with the tumbler called for. Wow...3 tsp. will do the trick. That's exciting from an economy standpoint. I do believe I got the water right. Nothing I've checked so far shows any signs of damage. It is more apparent in the polish. I can pick out an individual rock and see how it goes down in one area and comes back up elsewhere. Pretty dang cool if you ask me. Thanks again, Ken.
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fixfireleo
starting to shine!
Member since March 2014
Posts: 30
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Post by fixfireleo on Apr 15, 2014 15:47:03 GMT -5
hey tkv...when you say you run the first step for a month, i assume you mean in a rotary? i'm kinda new to this but i am wondering, based on some things i've read...doesnt the grit break down over time? do you really get much more out of a month than you would say 10 days? just curious. i have so much to tumble i dont think i could wait that long. i also think, for me, it was a mistake to buy a vibratory tumbler. my rocks are just too big and, unless i get some things figured out soon, i just dont see myself using the vibratory much. too bad i cant send it back and get my money back.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 16, 2014 0:26:01 GMT -5
hey tkv...when you say you run the first step for a month, i assume you mean in a rotary? i'm kinda new to this but i am wondering, based on some things i've read...doesnt the grit break down over time? do you really get much more out of a month than you would say 10 days? just curious. i have so much to tumble i dont think i could wait that long. i also think, for me, it was a mistake to buy a vibratory tumbler. my rocks are just too big and, unless i get some things figured out soon, i just dont see myself using the vibratory much. too bad i cant send it back and get my money back. Yes the 60/90 is done in a rotary. Not tumbled for a month at a time. I clean out and add fresh water and grit every seven days. Pull out the ones ready for step 2, top the barrel off to 2/3rds with more rock and repeat. I tend to like the rocks really well rounded so they go through several cleanouts. Hence the long rough grind time. Hope that's clear enough. I won't be running the vibe constantly. Looks like it will take me 6 to 8 weeks to accumulate enough material for one vibe batch. I'm OK with that because I expect at least a 60% savings on grit and polish. Now I'm curious. How big are the rocks your tumbling? Do you have a rotary tumbler?
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1nickthegreek
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 382
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Post by 1nickthegreek on Apr 16, 2014 2:22:11 GMT -5
hey tkv...when you say you run the first step for a month, i assume you mean in a rotary? i'm kinda new to this but i am wondering, based on some things i've read...doesnt the grit break down over time? do you really get much more out of a month than you would say 10 days? just curious. i have so much to tumble i dont think i could wait that long. i also think, for me, it was a mistake to buy a vibratory tumbler. my rocks are just too big and, unless i get some things figured out soon, i just dont see myself using the vibratory much. too bad i cant send it back and get my money back. Hey fixfireleo, if or when you decide to sell your vibe, please let me know and I may buy it from you (if you decide to that is) Thanks
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