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Post by Toad on Jun 25, 2014 1:08:06 GMT -5
I run two 12-lb barrels at a time, so 24 lbs right? NOT! Those puppies weighed in at 35 lbs combined (including water, grit, borax, media). Overage=46%.
I'm happy with my grinds and the tumbler is holding up fine, so...
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Post by snowmom on Jun 25, 2014 5:35:22 GMT -5
still learning so will be interested to hear responses to this question. Do you weigh all your tumbler loads? Does everybody else?
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Jun 25, 2014 8:06:45 GMT -5
I have a QT-66 and it runs overloaded for sure. I have never weighed the barrels but I can tell they are way heavier than 12 Lbs. IMHO I don't think it possible to follow any sort of "instructions" from the manufacturer and actually have the barrels weigh withing spec. Following the instructions from the great members here on RTH there would be no way to get a good tumble and not work the machines overloaded. That goes for my UV-10 as well, its always overloaded.
I will weigh my barrels and get back to y'all.
So then the question is, why do the manufactures rate their machines so low? Yes it will be easier on their equipment so less warranty claims but I am sure they want their customers to be happy and buy more of equipment.
BTW I am very happy with both the QT and UV I have NO complaints against these companies.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 25, 2014 10:57:33 GMT -5
I have two lortone 33b's and they always have between 7 1/4 to 8 pounds running. My QT66 usually has 15 to 18 pounds running. I have replaced both motors in the 33b's but don't think it was due to being overweight. One was from an overly tight belt and the other was probably due to age and normal wear. Lasted like three and a half years running 24/7/365.
Some will say that overloading will wear out the motor faster. All I know for sure is if you stick to the stated weight capacity you have only half full barrels. Works way better at 2/3 to 3/4.
I do weigh all my loads but really only to see how much mass is lost, which helps me gauge how the grind is going. Also to even out the weight between the 33's.
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Jun 25, 2014 15:50:58 GMT -5
It is my understanding, and I may be wrong which wouldn't the 1st or last time that happens!! LOL, but, the stated weight on the tumblers is to give maximum usage with overworking the machine. I know this means a lighter barrel and is only about 1/2 full but the remainder is to be filled with a cushioning agent which allows the machine to run at its maximum potential and give good results. However, just like the military and most manufacturers of anything, the numbers are on the low side so that people do not wear out the item prematurely and the companies don't have to deal with a lot of complaints from people who really over load their machines. Also remember than not all stone weighs the same so the weight on the barrels is a general guideline only, although they won't necessarily admit that either!!
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 25, 2014 16:21:39 GMT -5
Lose the scale and run rotary tumblers at least 2/3 full (3/4 even better). Use ceramics to keep weight down if motor is weak. Tumblers should be rated by volume (quart, 1/2 quart, etc.) not pounds but that is the way it is.
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Post by 150FromFundy on Jun 25, 2014 17:02:28 GMT -5
I agree with John. I have never worried about weight. With rotary barrels it is all about the correct volume. No less than 2/3 full and no more than 3/4 full. The only way you can overload a rotary barrel is to not allow enough headspace which is required for the load to have enough space to roll/grind properly.
Darryl.
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Post by Toad on Jun 27, 2014 2:36:10 GMT -5
Thanks all. Just wanted to see what everyone else was doing.
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Post by johnjsgems on Jun 27, 2014 9:48:15 GMT -5
I had a HP 40 lb tumbler. I think the barrel weighed maybe 20 lbs. When I would load it 3/4 full I almost had to roll it back into the garage. I never weighed it but it was heavy.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,339
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Post by quartz on Jun 27, 2014 20:54:36 GMT -5
Doing a "little" experiment right now to see how long a helium barrel will last for roughing. The barrel weighs ~8 1/2lb. empty, I load it 7/8 full, 3/4 proved not enough, too much banging. Weighs about 57lb. full. Not really heavy, but awkward because of nice smooth round bottom.
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Post by Toad on Jun 27, 2014 22:26:36 GMT -5
What's a helium barrel?
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,339
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Post by quartz on Jun 27, 2014 23:07:24 GMT -5
Guess I should have said "helium cylinder". It's one you get full of helium for filling balloons at parties and such, 4 gallon capacity. Sorry for the bad terminology
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 28, 2014 2:10:45 GMT -5
Guess I should have said "helium cylinder". It's one you get full of helium for filling balloons at parties and such, 4 gallon capacity. Sorry for the bad terminology Like John said, it is not about the weight. All about the volume. A barrel that is heavy and 100% full is less effort than a barrel 1/2 full. A full barrel is balanced and has no lifting to do. What goes up on the lift side is equal to what goes down on the down side. As the barrel gets less than full the power to turn it increases to a point. The PVC barrels will slip when less tun 2/3 full. Meaning that the rocks are not able to be lifted due to lack of friction from the slick PVC inner wall. A 55 gallon drum 1/2 full of gravel sitting on it's side on an incline will not even roll down it. You will have to keep pushing it. A 55 gallon drum completely full of gravel sitting on it's side on an incline will take off down the incline by itself with great force. A 55 gallon drum 1/2 full of water will roll down the hill, because the water offers almost no friction to lift it. Barrel mixing equipment for soils, fertilizers, gravel have big motors on them because mixing barrels are typically 1/2 - 2/3 full and require a bunch of horsepower. If they are 100% full you would get little mixing and would be turning a balanced barrel, albeit heavy, but still use little horsepower. And hard barrels that are running below 2/3 will bang rocks as quartz mentioned. Some jaspers, agates will chip the sharp edges off in such a situation without fractures-probably. But amethyst, rose quartz and similar will likely get crescent fractures and damaging frosting. For instance, I fill the barrel less the 2/3 for the first week often without grit to chip the sharp edges off of the thin, sharp coral chips that I tumble. And there will be two hand fulls of tiny chips in the barrel. It gets rid of the sharp edges, especially in clean water that offers less protection than a thick slurry. But that trick would likely fracture damage crystalline quartz and glass.
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Jun 28, 2014 15:41:32 GMT -5
That barrel explanation is pretty damb cool! True and cool:)
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Post by catmandewe on Jun 28, 2014 17:16:41 GMT -5
I have a 65 lb barrel from Diamond Pacific and it typically runs 90-110 lbs when 3/4 full.
Nice explanation above James.
Tony
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jun 29, 2014 6:51:45 GMT -5
A 50 pound tumbler barrel seems to weigh 100 pounds when trying to pick it up. They seem to weigh more than what the scale or the manufacturer says. Out of laziness I sure like one big coarse grind barrel and three smaller finishing barrels. The big barrel gets a mediocre quicky clean out w/out removing the rocks. The three smaller barrels have to be removed and cleaned thoroughly for grit grade changes. Big barrels seem to grind rocks well due to the shear weight of the rocks.
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moonmopus
starting to shine!
Member since June 2013
Posts: 45
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Post by moonmopus on Jul 7, 2014 21:45:40 GMT -5
Lose the scale and run rotary tumblers at least 2/3 full (3/4 even better). Use ceramics to keep weight down if motor is weak. Tumblers should be rated by volume (quart, 1/2 quart, etc.) not pounds but that is the way it is. i was pleased to read this and the other supporting thoughts from all of you seasoned tumblers. it all makes sense to me. thanks for posing the question, toad. mm
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FLrockhound
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2014
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Post by FLrockhound on Jul 19, 2014 23:41:40 GMT -5
Im new to rock tumbling and learning the do's and dont's fairly quickly from you all. I haven't thought about overloading would actually be helpful in my barrel. Since I'm on my first tumble I followed the instructions that came with my Lortone 45C(which is probably 30-40 years old, all of the illustrations were hand drawn). The instructions we fairly accurate to what you all are saying, it said to fill 3/4 and add water to about 1 1/2" below the top of the rocks.
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swiper
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2014
Posts: 64
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Post by swiper on Jul 20, 2014 22:28:27 GMT -5
I have a 12lb Thumbler tumbler and everything I seen had me putting in water to the bottom of the top layer of rocks. After joining this forum it was suggested to try way less water. 2 cups for my 12lb capacity. Made a huge difference. Everything got coated better. Try it and see which works better for you.
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