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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 14:22:07 GMT -5
I am going insane trying to use a 280 wheel that is slowing me down. It looks to have plenty of life left, but I can't do this anymore. SO, as mentioned in this post by stardiamond, I am considering replacing the 280 nova with a 220 nova. I don't trust myself to refinish wheels. My questions- Would you do this? Have you done this? Will the 600 do a good enough job on 220 nova scratches?
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Post by mohs on Sept 15, 2014 15:10:47 GMT -5
that a really good question tela
I would imagine that there isn't huge difference between the 220 & 280 BUT Being that you already have the 220 hard wheel its seems counter productive to go to another 220 wheel
Maybe your 280 just has a dead spot ? or maybe your experiencing a grinding block?
It would seem that the 220 hard, as difficult as it may be, should accomplish a smooth enough dome that when proceeding to the 280 it should be minimal work.
We all seem to lean into those 280’s. Perhaps because were not patient enough on the 220 hard? Perhaps…
my thoughts on hot humid sunny afternoon… mostly
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 15:20:29 GMT -5
The way I work is to do all the forming on the 80 and then I use the 220 to get the 80 scratches out. I don't even have facets to work by the time I get to the 280. I only use it to take out the 220 scratches. It is getting dull to the point that it takes forever to work a hard stone on the 280. I just gave up today. It was just too frustrating. It took 4 hours to get 2 cabs done from start to finish and to polish 3 from the 280 on. And, they don't look that great. I'm so ARGH!
The 220 nova should work the 220 galaxy scratches out much faster. But, I wonder if it will be too aggressive for softer stones and if the 600 will take out those scratches.
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Post by mohs on Sept 15, 2014 15:30:52 GMT -5
I tried to give my opinion on that Tela were talking 2 different thing here but my opinion is NO getting 220 soft wheel isn't going the solve your present 280 problems
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Post by mohs on Sept 15, 2014 15:33:12 GMT -5
now I typed the below before your most recent reply Tela
Another thing your really a precise fine grinder Tela so maybe your noticing a flaw in the Genie wheel arraignments?
I haven’t did an analysis yet, on the differences between wheel grinds. I’m actually at the stage where I’m taking it on faith that the wheels are doing what they are suppose to. In other words I’m trusting Diamond Pacific to know what’s best
That why I was concerned when you mentioned problems with the wheels I assumed that the grit is evenly distributed through out the Nova wheels and they are good until they break through to the foam backing.
So I haven’t particularly noticed decreased efficiency in the Nova’s and mine are really worn. But the hard wheels have definitely shown decreased efficiency from when they were new. But they still do pretty good.
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 15:52:41 GMT -5
now I typed the below before your most recent reply Tela Another thing your really a precise fine grinder Tela so maybe your noticing a flaw in the Genie wheel arraignments? I haven’t did an analysis yet, on the differences between wheel grinds. I’m actually at the stage where I’m taking it on faith that the wheels are doing what they are suppose to. In other words I’m trusting Diamond Pacific to know what’s best That why I was concerned when you mentioned problems with the wheels I assumed that the grit is evenly distributed through out the Nova wheels and they are good until they break through to the foam backing. So I haven’t particularly noticed decreased efficiency in the Nova’s and mine are really worn. But the hard wheels have definitely shown decreased efficiency from when they were new. But they still do pretty good. Yeah, it's weird. They should cut the same throughout the life of it, but it is not. Not this wheel, anyway. It seems to be worn pretty evenly. My 600 was a strange wheel when new- the rubber (and diamonds) wore off much, much quicker than the others. The pan would be full of it. But, after the initial wear, it was ok. Now, it has really worn spots, but still polishes just fine. Anyway, I can see how embedded diamonds might get worn more on one side if the wheel is always rotating in the same direction. But, with the nova wheel, those should be "flushed" away making room for new ones. My wheel, just seems dull with plenty of tread on it. Maybe, I'm not working it hard enough to expose new diamonds? No, that can't be because I have been busting my hump on it trying to polish the 220 scratches out of agates. Just for the record.... my domes are fine. That's not the problem here. The scratches are throughout the stone. I have tried thinking around this many different ways and tried different working methods. I thought that maybe my touch was too light on the 220 hard leaving the bottoms of deep 80 scratches in the stone... that's not it. I have tried every method and direction of working the stones. I just give up. So, now, Ed, you got me wondering if there is just something wrong with this wheel. I dunno- I'm beginning to feel flummoxed and stupid.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Sept 15, 2014 16:01:28 GMT -5
I did not have to replace my 1200 wheel until there were bare spots showing but my 280 slowed way down and I replaced it even though it still looks ok with no bare spots and an even surface all around. I know I spend a little more time on the 280 then any other wheel because that's where I do most of my visible by eye scratch removal. I was thinking the 220 sounded good but your right about soft stones. It will require a light touch on those for sure.
Chuck
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 15, 2014 16:09:50 GMT -5
The 220 Nova is nothing like a 220 Galaxy. It is very close to a 280 Nova. Unless I am working with softer material the 600 isn't going to get rid of scratches. I've had a problem with scratches on harder material like, Montana. I have both an 8" 220 Nova and a 6" 280 Nova. Both are in decent shape. My biggest problem with scratches is not seeing them until polish. I've tried a visor and a loupe and they don't help much. I tried doing the 280 Nova after the 220 Nova and it didn't help. I think those deep 80 grit scratches can only be fixed with the 220 Galaxy. One thing that I've tried to see scratches is rub a pencil in the areas prone to scratches. For me the girdle line and the top of the dome. I think you need to verify all the 80 grit scratches are gone before going to a Nova wheel.
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kenefick
starting to shine!
Member since August 2014
Posts: 44
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Post by kenefick on Sept 15, 2014 16:13:54 GMT -5
I've been having a similar problem on hard agate/jasper. Soft stuff like pet wood works fine. I thought perhaps the diamond was all starting to "lean" in the same direction, so I reversed the wheel. Some improvement, but not drastic. Also seems if I use less water the 280 seems to work better on the hard stuff. I may be decreasing the life of the wheel though, but, heck, if it won't grind out the 220 scratches, I may need to replace it anyway.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,759
Member is Online
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 15, 2014 16:38:48 GMT -5
The 220 nova should work the 220 galaxy scratches out much faster. But, I wonder if it will be too aggressive for softer stones and if the 600 will take out those scratches. When cutting opal and other soft stones I do all shaping on the 220 Galaxy, then go to the 600 Nova for touch-up and scratch removal. It works just fine for me. On harder stuff I rough-shape on 80, refine on 220 Galaxy then go to a 220 Eastwind for metal wheel scratch and flat removal. I dry the stone frequently and inspect it under 10x magnification. I often find the 220 metal hasn't quite removed all the 80 scratches so I go back to the 220 Galaxy until I'm sure they're gone. It's those 80 grit scratches you don't notice until near-polish that can drive you crazy.
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Deb/nyllynn
spending too much on rocks
Deb & Jim
Member since April 2009
Posts: 348
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Post by Deb/nyllynn on Sept 15, 2014 16:51:48 GMT -5
Hey Tela, I just got some new wheels from a place in Michigan. In case you would like to replace it. They were wonderful. They are a generic wheel but work wonderfully. I couldn't believe how much faster my work flow is.... In case you are interested, it is: www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/products.php?catID=1066 The wheels are $51.00 each and well worth it. You'll need to ask for (2) 1/4 in spacers as they are the same wheel width, but not the same when putting them on the spindle. I absolutely love my new wheels. I struggled with my first wheel (80) and my (280). These guys took very good care of me. Good luck whatever you do...... Deb
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Post by mohs on Sept 15, 2014 17:15:21 GMT -5
Tela: That's really fabulous insight that I hadn't given much consideration...
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 17:20:05 GMT -5
Hey Tela, I just got some new wheels from a place in Michigan. In case you would like to replace it. They were wonderful. They are a generic wheel but work wonderfully. I couldn't believe how much faster my work flow is.... In case you are interested, it is: www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/products.php?catID=1066 The wheels are $51.00 each and well worth it. You'll need to ask for (2) 1/4 in spacers as they are the same wheel width, but not the same when putting them on the spindle. I absolutely love my new wheels. I struggled with my first wheel (80) and my (280). These guys took very good care of me. Good luck whatever you do...... Deb Hey Deb Thanks! I was looking at those today. Just to clarify.... is this what you are talking about? Your link didn't have any wheels . www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=46660&catID=1071edit: oops- these wheels are more, so I got the wrong link. Can you link what you bought?
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 17:27:11 GMT -5
The 220 nova should work the 220 galaxy scratches out much faster. But, I wonder if it will be too aggressive for softer stones and if the 600 will take out those scratches. When cutting opal and other soft stones I do all shaping on the 220 Galaxy, then go to the 600 Nova for touch-up and scratch removal. It works just fine for me. On harder stuff I rough-shape on 80, refine on 220 Galaxy then go to a 220 Eastwind for metal wheel scratch and flat removal. I dry the stone frequently and inspect it under 10x magnification. I often find the 220 metal hasn't quite removed all the 80 scratches so I go back to the 220 Galaxy until I'm sure they're gone. It's those 80 grit scratches you don't notice until near-polish that can drive you crazy. OK, so the 220 Eastwind is the same as the 220 Nova and you are not using a 280 nova? Yes, I have 2.75 readers, a #4 lens optivisor and I am drying with my shoulder towel frequently. Maybe, I need to whip out the loupe, too.
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Post by mohs on Sept 15, 2014 17:31:13 GMT -5
This is really an interesting discussion but my opinion is to be taken with a grain of 100,000 grit Because I don’t do my rough doming work on my Pixie. I just use the Pixie machine for final polishing starting at 600. So I don't have any particular experience with this problem I do my rough grinding out on the Lortone. With hard material I start with S/C wheels. Then on to Galaxy wheels up to 220 Then s/c sand paper 320, 400, 600 Then to the Pixie for the final. That's a lot now & zens I’m certainly not getting the type of finish/polish you achieve Tela but I’m pretty happy with the amount of scratches I do leave behind. O they are there! O well... until I can get the space & time to be setup in a clean room I just keep grindig’n on…. mostly so I can only read contemplate and sympathize double mostly
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 17:35:30 GMT -5
This is really an interesting discussion but my opinion is to be taken with a grain of 100,000 grit Because I don’t do my rough doming work on my Pixie. I just use the Pixie machine for final polishing starting at 600. So I don't have any particular experience with this problem I do my rough grinding out on the Lortone. With hard material I start with S/C wheels. Then on to Galaxy wheels up to 220 Then s/c sand paper 320, 400, 600 Then to the Pixie for the final. That's a lot now & zens I’m certainly not getting the type of finish/polish you achieve Tela but I’m pretty happy with the amount of scratches I do leave behind. O they are there! O well... until I can get the space & time to be setup in a clean room I just keep grindig’n on…. mostly so I can only read contemplate and sympathize double mostly Wow, Ed, you're jumping all over the place!
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 15, 2014 17:41:22 GMT -5
Jadecarver wheels were steel core and now they seem to offer plastic core and steel core. I emailed them asking if they cut and lasted the same. There seems to be multiple links off Google; some show the older stuff and some show the new. This link shows the plastic core hard wheels. I was very happy with the steel core, but they are too heavy for a Genie. jadecarver.visualharbor.com/product-category/tools/flat-diamond-grinding-wheels/
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Post by mohs on Sept 15, 2014 17:43:15 GMT -5
well Tela I'm trying to invent a dial a grit wheel Start at 80 then incrementally turn the dial and the diamonds progressively go off into infinity 1 wheel fits all
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Post by rockjunquie on Sept 15, 2014 17:45:41 GMT -5
well Tela I'm trying to invent a dial a grit wheel Start at 80 then incrementally turn the dial and the diamonds progressively go off into infinity 1 wheel fits all YES!!!! I'll buy
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Post by orrum on Sept 15, 2014 17:46:49 GMT -5
Tela you do great cabs. Buy a new wheel and have it over with. I use all sc expands and then diamond on leather. I must luv scratches and flats cause I get lots of them! LOL Maybe I need Nova wheels.
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