jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 22, 2014 14:21:47 GMT -5
Looks like its coming along James... Yep Michael. May have a winner on this one. thumb is very up. Who has three right thumbs
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Post by captbob on Oct 22, 2014 14:37:28 GMT -5
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 22, 2014 15:11:52 GMT -5
The coarse grind was done at fast speed, 80 % full. The 220 was at slow 12 RPM @ 85% full. Both had crushed glass filler.
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Post by connrock on Oct 23, 2014 5:58:21 GMT -5
So that's what those red lines are under the words??? LOL I always wondered what the heck they were and now I find it's a speell chek thing!Don't know of any illiterate computers but I think I got an illiterate computer operator sitting right here! LOL
I think using the polished obsidian is a great idea to see exactly what's going on in the tumbler,,,,,or should I say "rubber"? LOL Now if you can make that "rubber' shake a little you'll have a vibe/rubber???
The only thing I've ever tumbled that's softer then obsidian is Petosky Stones so I'd love to see what happens when you try fluorite. connrock
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 6:20:43 GMT -5
I'm gettin scared here cuz usually when someone calls me Mr. they want something??? LOL Also,,,you spelled my last name wrong(conrock).It's CoNNrock! The only one in my family who changed his last name is my cousin Zeke who is (3 times removed).He changed his last name to Cornrock! LOL I think with the wear showing on the flats of the "prepolished" obsidian proves that the rocks are not "tumbling" but rather rubbing against them selves?Normally it's the outer edges of the rocks that wear down first. Why did you fill the barrel to 100% with water? connrock at least he didn't spell " corncock".lol Dave
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 23, 2014 8:59:50 GMT -5
So that's what those red lines are under the words??? LOL I always wondered what the heck they were and now I find it's a speell chek thing!Don't know of any illiterate computers but I think I got an illiterate computer operator sitting right here! LOL I think using the polished obsidian is a great idea to see exactly what's going on in the tumbler,,,,,or should I say "rubber"? LOL Now if you can make that "rubber' shake a little you'll have a vibe/rubber??? The only thing I've ever tumbled that's softer then obsidian is Petosky Stones so I'd love to see what happens when you try fluorite. connrock Well, the polished thing was not planned, it just came up. Maybe out of desperation LOL. One thing that puzzles me is the wear profile. It is about always a frost. Rarely line scratches. The only thing I know of is the grit is rolling between the rocks to make such a profile. I.E. grit is acting like micro ball bearings, rolling between the rocks and not sliding. I have seen metal lappers that use sprinkle on grit frost metal the same way. Grit does roll on them. And the best time for the grit to roll is when they are rubbing. And the better situation for the grit to roll is when the stone is fairly smooth, after coarse grind particularly. The coarse stage is almost a separate subject, and easy to do. The finish steps are the tricky ones on this obsidian. I think the surface is really delicate. Like fluorite or even rose quartz. I have to say that i am much more concerned about frost damage on the edges. When the polish was being removed slow on the edges and fast on the flat spots I was perplexed. But was happy. The abrasives are working, but slower perhaps. But not that slow. I have a feeling that the AO 1000 will finish faster than the 500 and the 5000 faster than the 1000, and the 14,000 faster than the 5000. I suppose the shine will happen faster on the flat spots before the edges That would be strange, but good. Or different LOL. One thing for sure, the 500 was suspended in the 100% slurry fill. That was a concern. So should the 1000, 5000 and 14,000, as they are way finer. If the 100% fill slows and protects the rocks on top instead of using dang filler I would be happy. Hate filler. I feel like the frost damage happens on the top where the rocks roll. After seeing the 500 work I am wondering if the barrel could have been turning at 6 RPM instead of 12 RPM and still got the job done. 12 RPM is crazy slow as it is. This is only a 7.5 inch barrel with a 6 inch hole, if it was a 20 inch barrel the rocks would be rolling fast at 12 RPM. You mentioned fluorite. I ordered Madagascar fluorite this morning. Put all this to the real test . Tired of spending so much money on coarse SiC. And waiting 2 months for agates to round off. Like your neighbor Vermont, Georgia had beautiful marbles and felspars. Mother of pearl, quahog clams too. Been wanting to tumble some softer, faster stuff. Check out quahog clams. They are famous for large purple pearls.
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FLrockhound
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2014
Posts: 343
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Post by FLrockhound on Oct 24, 2014 0:16:48 GMT -5
Quite an experiment you have goin on. I had no idea obsidian is so finicky. I'm glad you posted this and walking through the process with everyone. I'm eager to see how well it turns out. As a matter of fact I have a small piece mixed in with my agate as a test. Not the best idea I've ever had but I'm willing to see it through. Chances are, I won't have enough obsidian to tumble for a while. Those soft rocks are fun to work with, they keep you on your toes throughout the entire process. Plus they process much faster. I hope all that hardwork an headache isn't in vane an it all finishes up to your standards.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 24, 2014 2:54:25 GMT -5
Quite an experiment you have goin on. I had no idea obsidian is so finicky. I'm glad you posted this and walking through the process with everyone. I'm eager to see how well it turns out. As a matter of fact I have a small piece mixed in with my agate as a test. Not the best idea I've ever had but I'm willing to see it through. Chances are, I won't have enough obsidian to tumble for a while. Those soft rocks are fun to work with, they keep you on your toes throughout the entire process. Plus they process much faster. I hope all that hardwork an headache isn't in vane an it all finishes up to your standards. Thanks fl. Like experimenting. You said it in a nut shell "keep you on your toes throughout the entire process" is the truth. A rock that quickly picks up bruises any where along the way is unforgiving. Once bruised, starting over is the only choice. And the closer you get to polish the more the bruises show up. ha. Big bruises do not show up until 500 stage. Little bruises do not show up till 1000 stage. And on down the line. But you got to tumble them to abrade them. A bit of a catch 22. The larger pieces bruise much more easily. And it is hard to tell if the poor polish is from micro bruises. The only thing easy about this stuff is it takes a 220/500/1000 etc finish very quickly with very gentle movement. So gentle it is. That is a given. I do have two larger barrels full of agates and coral. To take my mind off of this obsidian challenge LOL.
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Post by connrock on Oct 24, 2014 6:27:34 GMT -5
I used to check out the surfaces of the rocks when I was learning with a 10x loupe to see what the heck was going on or what wasn't.Once I figured things out I stopped using the loupe. It wasn't until I posted photos here of a load of obsidian I was doing that I had top take a very close look at what was happening to the obsidian.It was coming out terrible and I felt like an idiot cuz I was trying to help and show how to do a load without any problems! LOL It was then that I discovered what I think are tiny gas "bubbles" that were "captured" throughout the obsidian. That being said,I've never seen actual "scratch" marks on the surface of any of the rocks I've tumbled. The "matted pattern" is always there from rough to polish but for a scratch to happen I would think that a rock would have to either be getting scratched,in the same exact place,every time it goes against another rock or it got that scratch just before it came out of the barrel??? This also tells me that there is a hardness difference of the rocks in a load and although there may be a hardness difference between the same type of rocks,it would be slight and one rock shouldn't scratch another?
I've polished mostly the outer areas of sea shells on my Genie but I've never tumbled any.I would think they would wear through fast being that they are so thin? Can't wait for you to do the fluorite!That stuff is wicked soft! LOL connrock
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 24, 2014 7:34:54 GMT -5
Never ever had much challenge tumbling till this obsidian rolls up. No mysteries, no problems, no nuthin. Makes you fill like a moron. Makes you do some homework and figuring. Never knew a better way than trying the extreme direction to see what happens. Stubborn usually pays off. These will be the size of peas if that's what it takes. They will get rerun a dozen times if necessary. ha
I listen to every idea and technique that has been mentioned. Got to try my own thing too.
You have tumbled it in the rotary successfully. And your suggestions have been real helpful. Like listening to a seasoned gardener, they have had long term failures. It takes months and years to learn success. Nothing happens overnight.
The matte surface has always been present on everything that gets tumbled. I assumed the grit particles are rolling between the rocks.
One thing for sure, the difference in the matte surface of the obsidian is easier to see change with each grit than with hard agate.
Hell Mr. connrock, I still see bruises on a few that were not removed completely by the 220 on the big ones and a softer variety. And bruises left on the polished ones that were added to the 500 batch. At least this time I was expecting them.ha
The full barrel thing is the most promising thing done so far, and it is not proven. Will be happy if it gives a wet shine. Hope it does.Then will go back and deal with the bruises.
Since I seem to be hard headed about filler I may go with unprinted newspaper. It makes a great pulp to thicken slurry. It will be the next approach. Laughing-already prepping for next failure.
Gotta get the obsidian figured out before the fluorite gets done. Have you done fluorite ? It is wicked soft !!! Oh no.
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Post by captbob on Oct 24, 2014 10:01:04 GMT -5
With your obsidian at 5-5½ you're only stepping down a bit to fluorite at 4-4½. I think the fluorite will be just fine as I don't expect it to show imperfection as readily as the obsidian.
I see tumbled howlite all the time which is only 3½ on the Mohs, but it's what I consider a crude tumble. I've never tumbled howlite, but I have 10 pounds on the way building up that stock pile for a someday thing.
I did a chrysocolla load a couple years back which was kinda a challenge. Probably the most filler I've ever used in a barrel. Mohs says 2-5½ for the chrysocolla, I dunno, but it was soft.
Thing is, it does not have as reflective of a surface as the obsidian. So again, imperfections may be less noticeable. I think obsidian (or tears) may be among the most unforgiving of tumbles as they don't hide shortcomings very well.
Mohs says coral is "soft" at 3-4, you find that to be accurate? Is tumbling coral a problem?
What KIND of fluorite are you collecting to tumble?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 24, 2014 10:54:19 GMT -5
You are spot on about obsidian. Unforgiving to the max. Good one to practice on since it shows surface abrasion from different grits, and bruises. I think glass, crystalline quartzes, obsidian are all frost sensitive. You really have to beat an agate hard to get it to frost.
The coral is glassy too, chips have razor sharp edges. but it is tough too. It is with out a doubt the hardest or toughest agate I have ever tumbled. Rounds slow, polishes fast. Eats diamond wheels if you don't take it slow. Most of the coral in your area is often a bit grainy, but still takes a great polish. The pinhead coral there is glassy. It has polyps the size of a pinhead, and is sought after by knappers.
Your point about chrysocolla and howlite is a good one. The obsidian is stunning when done to perfection. Non-transparent stones much more forgiving. Fluorite might be a tough one for that reason. The clear corals are one of my favorite. Often zero fractures and transparent. No factory tumble could come close to frosting the coral. Hoping you will pursue the coral. Lake Parker is supposed to have it, and many other areas around Tampa, you lucky.
The fluorite was the first rock I ever purchased. It is from Madagascar so the supplier said on ebay. Supposed to have good fluorite there. Will see. I also ordered 3 varieties of obsidian captbob. I will report back on the quality if you want to get some OB/fluorite.
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Post by captbob on Oct 24, 2014 11:17:23 GMT -5
I do need to restock mahogany obsidian; no hurry there, just something on my list. I culled my two barrels of MO down to one to free up a barrel. I have two 15 pounders open now and plan to run Stone Canyon jasper in one and I got a bunch of Dallasite from bcrockhound which I need to get started in the other. That reminds me, I need to start a WTB Stone Canyon Jasper thread. Can't find enough quality material on eBay.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 24, 2014 11:23:31 GMT -5
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Post by captbob on Oct 24, 2014 11:34:59 GMT -5
Just got a box from him this week of his "fantasia" jasper. I'm underwhelmed. Sure I'll get around to it someday.
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Post by captbob on Oct 24, 2014 11:54:52 GMT -5
Hoping you will pursue the coral. Lake Parker is supposed to have it, and many other areas around Tampa, you lucky. That's kind of ironic I suppose. When my dad's folks moved into "town" (Lakeland) from the lake out near Bartow, Lake Parker was at the bottom of the hill from their house. Uncle & Aunt lived off Lake Hollingsworth maybe a mile away. I probably threw away all kinda of corals I had found interesting at the time that I found playing around there as a kid. *sigh* had we known then... ETA: Heck, back in the mid 60s, we used to trade away most of the arrow heads we found out at my Grandparent's place on Lake Buffum.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,159
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Post by jamesp on Oct 25, 2014 6:52:11 GMT -5
Hoping you will pursue the coral. Lake Parker is supposed to have it, and many other areas around Tampa, you lucky. That's kind of ironic I suppose. When my dad's folks moved into "town" (Lakeland) from the lake out near Bartow, Lake Parker was at the bottom of the hill from their house. Uncle & Aunt lived off Lake Hollingsworth maybe a mile away. I probably threw away all kinda of corals I had found interesting at the time that I found playing around there as a kid. *sigh* had we known then... ETA: Heck, back in the mid 60s, we used to trade away most of the arrow heads we found out at my Grandparent's place on Lake Buffum. Lake Parker Lake Bonny and Lake Hollingsworth are all close together. I have explored that area. Looking for fast moving creeks under every bridge I crossed looking for rock exposures, leading to coral. Most of them slow or still water overly vegetated. Took a boat out on Parker with my rock probe and never could find rock bottom. Does Lake Parker ever drop in level ? It is supposed to have fine base ball/soft ball size coral heads So I have struck out in your hood. Found a little coral in Tampa Bay near Ballast Point, but it is all about picked clean. I would have taken my low gunnel swamp boat to the other(east) side of the bay but it was too rough. Lot of dredgings to pick thru over there. Lake Buffom may be a bit south of the coral zone. Here is my last load of coral collected at the little creek on Handcart Road in Zephyr
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