Don
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Post by Don on Dec 16, 2014 13:19:27 GMT -5
I'm looking for something more efficient for cleaning and polishing silver jewelry I make than manually buffing everything through multiple stages on the buffing wheel one piece at a time. How do the big boys do it? I do light cleaning and finishing in a tumbler with steel shot and burnishing compound, but this is not aggressive enough to take a piece from solder and deburring to final polish. I hear that tripoli is about 1000 grit, so could I throw the silver in a tumbler with 1000 grit and some media like plastic pellets and bulk pre-polish the silver and then finish with steel shot and burnishing compound?
What do you think?
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Post by Pat on Dec 16, 2014 14:38:52 GMT -5
Try Speed Brite Model 200SB. rockjunquie has a blog post on it. Looks good. Gesswein has it on sale for today only. I just ordered one.
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 16, 2014 15:37:20 GMT -5
Try Speed Brite Model 200SB. rockjunquie has a blog post on it. Looks good. Gesswein has it on sale for today only. I just ordered one. Thanks Pat, but that appears to be a cleaner, finished jewelry polisher; I'm looking for something to assist me in removing fire scale, scratches and other blemishes on silver prior to polishing as a pre-polish step, same as I do manually with tripoli on a buffing wheel, but in a tumbler with media. I have solid silver rings, bangles, bracelets, earrings, charms, etc in mind, taking the metal from soldering and pickle, to deburring/removing excess solder and cleaning joints to pre-polishing in preparation for final polishing with steelshot and burnishing compound. It is difficult and very time consuming to get into all of the little areas such as inside ring bands for pre-polishing. If I could just throw it all in a tumbler for a few hours and have it come out ready for final polishing, it would save considerable time in production work. basically, taking rough silver, like you would a rough stone and tumble polish it by taking it through sequential grits. I'm just not sure where to start, what grits to use and which media would be best.
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Post by Pat on Dec 16, 2014 15:53:49 GMT -5
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 16, 2014 16:19:05 GMT -5
Thank you Pat, it looks like that machine does a great job at removing oxidization. Tela wrote a great article. When I think of fire scale, I'm thinking about this: The separation of silver and copper when sterling becomes overheated and the copper rises to the surface of the metal, creating a discoloration in the metal that is not an oxidization. There are two primary methods of removing this, either by repeatedly heating up the metal and building up a layer of fine silver on top of the copper to hid the fire scale, or by sanding the copper layer off with abrasive compound. I use tripoli on a buffing wheel to remove the scale and other pits and scratches from filing and deburring off blemishes from the fabrication process. I'm looking for a more efficient way to perform this step by using tumblers and abrasive media.
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 16, 2014 17:35:14 GMT -5
Ganoksin has a couple of articles that discuss what I'm needing, but leave out the necessary nuts and bolts of how to actually do it. ArticleSo, I need to figure out optimum media and abrasives for the following stages: Cutting - Plastic media with SiC 200 - 400 grit? Pre-Polishing - Plastic with SiC grit 600 - 1000 grit? Burnishing - Stainless steel shot with burnishing compound Polishing - dry media with polishing compound in vibe tumbler.
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bsky4463
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Post by bsky4463 on Dec 16, 2014 17:44:53 GMT -5
Don ...here is another blog post that may add to your discovery/findings....cheers link
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Dec 16, 2014 18:42:54 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 16, 2014 22:32:42 GMT -5
Pat, thanks for the shout out. I love my speed brite. It has a dedicated place in my work space. But, I think it won't remove the kind of firescale that is being discussed. Unfortunately, I have found the smithing language to be inadequate for what is and isn't called firescale. I think of it as the black stuff not the "under the surface" dreaded discoloration of the stuff called ... I don't know what. I tried at one point to figure out the "whats" and gave up.
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 16, 2014 22:59:26 GMT -5
Don I have struggled with that mess, too. I still don't know what it is really called. It seems there are a few names. Anyway.... Here is a couple of vids that might help. I like his videos a lot. He talks briefly about bringing up a fine silver surface to cover the firescale or firestain.
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Post by connrock on Dec 17, 2014 8:25:33 GMT -5
Don I think you'll have to try the different types of "gritted" media to see which one fits you needs. I haven't tried getting rid of fire scale but have had great success burnishing with stainless steel shot in a Lot-O-Tumbler (vibe unit). There are different types of media but I think the pyramid shaped plastic media would work the best for you. Different colored media represent different grits and I believe the green media is about 320 grit,,,, Rio Grande has a pretty good selection,,, Here is the green media but you can shop around to see if you think it's best for you,,,,, linkYou may also want to try some of the deburring compound liquids as well but I think a little dish soap and a tad of water will do for starters for you. The vibe units work a lot faster then the rotary tumblers. Good luck,,, connrock
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 17, 2014 11:01:53 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'm also interested in this for cleaning and finishing cast pieces. Removing the investment, cleaning and smoothing and then polishing the finished pieces. I'm sure this is how the large jewelry manufacturers finish all of their work; it would be too expensive to hand buff and polish everything. I'm surprised no-one has scaled down the process for the small business and hobbyist with retail equipment. All of the industrial media and compounds are available for sale: www.kramerindustriesonline.com/tumbling-media.htmIt's just a matter of figuring out the process.
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 17, 2014 11:34:34 GMT -5
Let's try it from a different angle. Assume you have a rock with a hardness of about 3 on the MOHS scale. How would you tumble and polish it?
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 17, 2014 12:05:59 GMT -5
Don I think you'll have to try the different types of "gritted" media to see which one fits you needs. I haven't tried getting rid of fire scale but have had great success burnishing with stainless steel shot in a Lot-O-Tumbler (vibe unit). There are different types of media but I think the pyramid shaped plastic media would work the best for you. Different colored media represent different grits and I believe the green media is about 320 grit,,,, Rio Grande has a pretty good selection,,, Here is the green media but you can shop around to see if you think it's best for you,,,,, linkYou may also want to try some of the deburring compound liquids as well but I think a little dish soap and a tad of water will do for starters for you. The vibe units work a lot faster then the rotary tumblers. Good luck,,, connrock I think you're on the right track here with the gritted plastic media; I was just reading up on green and light green plastic media for soft metal surface preparation. I think a run of this followed up with steel shot and burnishing, and then a dry vibe polish might be the way to go.
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 17, 2014 13:45:16 GMT -5
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 17, 2014 14:02:30 GMT -5
Sorry, I seemed to have missed your original point earlier. However, to make up for it..... let me tell you about my tumbling of silver soldered unset pcs. I have been tumbling, for more than a decade and then some, almost all of my wire work, so I thought nothing of putting my silver (sterling) pcs in the tumbler after pickling and cleaning. Everything that was flat (24 and 22 ga) was dented/pitted. This is the same steel jewelry shot that I got from Rio in a 3a Lortone. I don't know if it is me, what I am doing wrong, if I left it in too long or what. However, it was distressing enough to warn you about it.
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Don
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Post by Don on Dec 17, 2014 14:21:45 GMT -5
Sorry, I seemed to have missed your original point earlier. However, to make up for it..... let me tell you about my tumbling of silver soldered unset pcs. I have been tumbling, for more than a decade and then some, almost all of my wire work, so I thought nothing of putting my silver (sterling) pcs in the tumbler after pickling and cleaning. Everything that was flat (24 and 22 ga) was dented/pitted. This is the same steel jewelry shot that I got from Rio in a 3a Lortone. I don't know if it is me, what I am doing wrong, if I left it in too long or what. However, it was distressing enough to warn you about it. Thanks Tela, I've heard that that can be a problem. Maybe skip the SS shot burnishing and try the dry media in a vibe tumbler. ground walnut shells or corn cob husks with a rouge compound should be real gentle on the metal. I currently burnish nearly everything I make in SS shot and haven't had too much of an issue with it, but I don't have a lot of pieces where the sheet backing is exposed and unsupported. I've done hundreds of rings, cuffs, bracelets, etc in the SS but most of that is 18ga or thicker.
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Post by connrock on Dec 18, 2014 12:21:58 GMT -5
Looks like a good plan Don! I tried the walnut shells/rouge thing and spent a LONG time picking tiny pieces of walnut shells out of every little nook and cranny! LOL I even tried blasting them out with a high pressure gun! Live and learn,,,,hopefully! Good Luck,,, connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 19, 2014 1:10:42 GMT -5
I use a strange method on soft metals. It may be of no use Don. But I will share. I cut stainless, copper, brass, german silver, white brass up in a bunch of 'close to pendant size' pieces. Fill a 12 pound Lortone rotary barrel 40% full of polished granite pea gravel and 40% metals pieces. Add water to half way up barrel. Tumble for 4-5 days. Mainly to remove burrs. Most of it gets hammered. and the burrs cause problems. To get a polish, I use an 8 inch buff pad on a 1 horsepower shop grinder and a bunch of stick tripoli applications. May buff 10 pieces at a time, a portion at a time due to heat build up. 3600 RPM so it gets real hot. It eats buff pads, I get them in 10 packs at Harbor Freight. Stick tripoli too. here is a load : closer not the finish you are looking for, but will shine with the high speed buff. I would guess the peening action of stainless steel media is the best way to polish silver. Additives may help, and of course the media shape. As far as cleaning, you may consult Kramer. Maybe ask them what is recommended for aluminum, it is soft. Using water can cause serious stains on base metals, and a lot of foam and gas in the rotary. The cleaning of brass casings for bullets may be similar to what you are looking for.
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Post by phil on Dec 19, 2014 11:53:27 GMT -5
You're not removing the fire scale with a pickle pot?
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