jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2015 6:04:21 GMT -5
15" of rock is 3/4 full, and quite a ways back into the "pinch" of the drum. I'm wondering if that would create a shuffle such that the mtl. in the center would more just ride a circle near the center, I'd go 12". Think I'd hold the water back to 8" max. Need to hold the grit to the product. Sounds good from here, you can hit me with something if I'm all wet, wouldn't be the first time. It was bruising normal size tumbles at 17 inches full. Never made sense to me. You could hear it. Something about that shape is causing some sharp impacts. So I filled to 15 inches with 1/2 inch glass. 10 inches water. Sounds smooth as silk. Glass will spall quick. And it is easy to see the spalls on glass. So I will let it run a few days and check the glass. If no spalls, I am lowering it to 12 inches. Because (15 inches)3/4 full is deceptive with that tapered outside edge-""15" of rock is 3/4 full, and quite a ways back into the "pinch" of the drum." Exactly what you are saying. You would think that 1/2 inch and smaller would be difficult to bruise, having less weight. By the same token, tiny tumbles do grind really slow. I have tried rolling 1/2 inch glass by itself in an 8 inch barrel at a fast speed and it is really slow to rough. Real slow. Hoping that the larger diameter will get the job done on smaller stuff. I can quickly cut that bowl off and stick something else on that shaft. No problem there. If the glass bruises, I will change it. Take a guess at what would be a good replacement. How about 6 inches wide and 20 inches in diameter, just a plain narrow but tall cylinder ?? The tested and tried cylinder...
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Post by connrock on Feb 6, 2015 9:47:27 GMT -5
Garnets are harder then what we normally do so I would have to say a faster action in the vibe is good.The grit will break down faster then normal so you'll either keep adding grit or washing and adding grit. You can get stones faceted pretty cheep in some of the Asian countries. Good luck,,, connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2015 17:51:22 GMT -5
Garnets are harder then what we normally do so I would have to say a faster action in the vibe is good.The grit will break down faster then normal so you'll either keep adding grit or washing and adding grit. You can get stones faceted pretty cheep in some of the Asian countries. Good luck,,, connrock yep. Should be safe with the garnets. they are able to be recycled thru a sand blaster 5-6 times. That is one durable rock, and the Mohs is a bit higher. I hear you about keeping sharp grit in there. Something tells me I will need to run say 30-40% bigger rocks with them, I am not sure. Not sure if they will wear. Hell, I fought filler and now i am adding rocks to tumble the filler. Talk about full circle. There is a company called Lambert, been contract cutting for years, in Thailand. Facets cheaper than cabs go figure. They will facet small stones for little of nothing. prices surprised me Tom. lambertgems.comprices, Lambert: Service Fee(for faceted stones !!) Under 0.49cts Corundum & Emerald price is $2.25/pc Over 0.49cts Corundum & Emerald price is $4.25/ct Under 0.74cts Most other stones price is $1.95/pc Over 0.74cts Most other stones price is $2.10/ct Cabohons price starting from $1.00 depends on size Calibrated Sizes Surcharge $0.50/ct No extra charge for cutting to fancy All prices are quoted in U.S. $
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
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Post by quartz on Feb 6, 2015 23:10:02 GMT -5
I think the rounded side of that tumbler barrel would promote more movement and rubbing on smalls as they move from a free state near the top to a forced more compact state as the pieces are rolled to the bottom of the barrel. This assuming a smooth even flow of material. Really don't think making a barrel that tall & skinny would gain you anything. My opinion; length needs to be longer relative to diameter to get more of the load moving constantly.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 7, 2015 6:20:07 GMT -5
I think the rounded side of that tumbler barrel would promote more movement and rubbing on smalls as they move from a free state near the top to a forced more compact state as the pieces are rolled to the bottom of the barrel. This assuming a smooth even flow of material. Really don't think making a barrel that tall & skinny would gain you anything. My opinion; length needs to be longer relative to diameter to get more of the load moving constantly. Sometimes it is a bad idea to build something out of something that is sitting in the bone yard-say out of convenience. Designed due to availability ha. Have wondered what happens in that bowl, thanks for your thoughts. "assuming smooth flow" was a problem you warned me about before with bigger rocks, well, it never had a smooth flow. So you called it right. it does have smooth flow with smalls. Thinking about canning that thing for rocks, but need to run it with smalls to see what happens. Width to length ratio on a barrel. I have 18 X 5, 20 X 6, 24 X 6, 30 X 6 PVC barrels. All rough grind. Sure seems like the 20 X 6(and the old 18 X 6) is king of rough grind. The longer barrels have grit distribution issues. The 5 inch ID was a repair where 6 inch pvc was cut like a 'c' and re-sleeved a wearing 6 inch barrel, it grinds way slower. Do you think smalls would grind faster with a 60 RPM 20 X 6 inch barrel ? maybe even faster ? Each holds 16 pounds of rock. Those 6 inch barrels all run on solid 1.5 inch shafts with no rubber on the shafts and they do fine. So am thinking about a mass production machine, long 1.5 inch shafts say 12 feet long with 7-8 barrels in the 20 X 6 inch range. Thick shafts to avoid intermediate pillow block supports to avoid maintenance labor issue. Higher 50+ RPM speeds. Using power saving v-belts/toothed timing belts and not a gearbox. May make a factory in one of the long narrow quonset greenhouses with long tumblers along each wall. Not just for rock tumbling, but smalls and distressed metal parts, base metals, etc for artists and end users.
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Post by connrock on Feb 7, 2015 10:52:58 GMT -5
I think the worse part of doing garnets is the length of time it takes to do them.They take a LOT longer to do right then what we normally tumble and I tend to loose interest in something that takes that long to do! I can't remember how long I had to run the rough cycle but it was a long time. One of my Aussie friends had some of the golden labradorite he collected faceted and gave me a few. Some of the rough he collected,,,,, One of the faceted ones he gave me,,,, I'm almost sure he had these faceted by lambergems too!I don't know how they can do it so cheap! Good Luck,,, connrock
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Feb 7, 2015 13:03:59 GMT -5
Length x dia. does have its limits, I'm surprised that even the ones working best for you work well. Then too, the stuff we run is often much bigger than you run, that likely makes quite a difference. When I first built the big-barrel set, we got some 12" P.V.C. in 3 foot lengths, made a two-footer and a 1-footer, showed quickly the one footer worked better. Started out with mtl. in the 1-5 lb. range, totally different that what you generally do. Gathered a bunch of pea gravel from an abandoned quarry/processing plant for the smalls. That was the whole notion of building that thing, had a bunch of larger pieces, let's see if we can tumble them successfully; no one else around here does that large. No idea on smalls running that fast, out of my experience range. Easy way to support long shafts in the middle; support wheels made of casters like that end thrust wheel you pictured a while back, lots of them up at the mill on 26' long rolls.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 7, 2015 18:32:06 GMT -5
Length x dia. does have its limits, I'm surprised that even the ones working best for you work well. Then too, the stuff we run is often much bigger than you run, that likely makes quite a difference. When I first built the big-barrel set, we got some 12" P.V.C. in 3 foot lengths, made a two-footer and a 1-footer, showed quickly the one footer worked better. Started out with mtl. in the 1-5 lb. range, totally different that what you generally do. Gathered a bunch of pea gravel from an abandoned quarry/processing plant for the smalls. That was the whole notion of building that thing, had a bunch of larger pieces, let's see if we can tumble them successfully; no one else around here does that large. No idea on smalls running that fast, out of my experience range. Easy way to support long shafts in the middle; support wheels made of casters like that end thrust wheel you pictured a while back, lots of them up at the mill on 26' long rolls. That is some big stuff. To be honest, big is a big challenge. It ups the chance of damage a bunch. The filler has to be so right I suppose. You need a pat on the back. Big accomplishment. Interesting you are doing them in 'diameter=length'. A lot of interest in tumbling big rocks here. Thinking it is another game all together, at least if you have more that one in the same barrel. As far as smalls, I am lost too. guessing that about 1 inch 'filler' would help. Got plenty of goof ups to try from the bruise pile. I would think fast vibe or rotary is best and should be little chance of bruising. Maybe a rolling pin full length in the rotary, just kidding.
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
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Post by quartz on Feb 7, 2015 23:01:44 GMT -5
I got some of the rubber cord truckers use to tie down tarps, 3/8 dia., cut it into 3/8-1/2" lengths with a razor knife. Use it 20-30% in 220, cut way back on impact damage. Can't use the rolling pin, ma keeps it for pie crust and keeping "old crusty" in line.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 8, 2015 6:11:38 GMT -5
I got some of the rubber cord truckers use to tie down tarps, 3/8 dia., cut it into 3/8-1/2" lengths with a razor knife. Use it 20-30% in 220, cut way back on impact damage. Can't use the rolling pin, ma keeps it for pie crust and keeping "old crusty" in line. Rolling pin and angry lady is scary image. Are they maple ? and ouch Denise has some old glass rolling pins w/a cork on one side so you can fill it w/water for weight. I filled them with small rocks, added water and copper sulfate for a display. That one could liberate her. Rubber sounds like a great idea. Most filler is hard aside from organic stuff; and they are often unreliable. Plastic pellets, sounds like a larger version of them. Maybe the only way to go on large rocks. And you are rolling them in a big 12 inch barrel. That type of rubber either sinks or comes close to sinking, not sure if it matters. Suppose sinking is better.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Feb 8, 2015 6:34:29 GMT -5
Using glass filler in roughing stage with other tumbles wears the glass fast in the rotary connrock. But tumbling it by itself with coarse grit in same rotary takes forever. Ha, it is so bad that if you stop the tumbler for just a few minutes the mud from the glass locks up like concrete on the bottom of the barrel if the slurry has gotten real dirty. The glass is fine in all the finer steps, but makes a concrete in coarse grind. The only reason I used glass in coarse was for padding on obsidian. Fine for that. That labradolite is some clear rock. Should be around Mohs 6 and a great candidate for a facet stone. Very nice. As far as doing a faceted stone at those prices-who knows. Maybe they do them on some kind of CNC machine, but I do not see how. It seems like a manual job. I have bought tropical water lilies from Thailand at 50 cents each. they are hard to find here for $10 each. Some body is working for cheap !
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Post by connrock on Feb 8, 2015 11:37:05 GMT -5
I have a rockhound friend who works for PPG and he sent me a lot of flat/round pieces of glass,,,about 1/8" or 3/16" thick that are cut out of John Deere windows with diamond core drills on CNC machines. They're OK as filler but have some kind of plastic that's "laminated" between 3 separate pieces of glass.I tried roughing them in 60/90 and ended up with a VERY thick slurry in no time in a rotary! He has also sent me worn diamond core drills that are discarded after they don't meet production standards(speed in cutting)!They range in size from about 4mm-35mm in diameter and cut agate/jasper like butter! You can see one of the core drill here where I drilled threw 2 fairly thick pieces of Queensland agate,,,,, Here are the 2 "plugs" and handles after drilling,,,, connrock
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,155
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Post by jamesp on Feb 8, 2015 12:06:27 GMT -5
I have a rockhound friend who works for PPG and he sent me a lot of flat/round pieces of glass,,,about 1/8" or 3/16" thick that are cut out of John Deere windows with diamond core drills on CNC machines. They're OK as filler but have some kind of plastic that's "laminated" between 3 separate pieces of glass.I tried roughing them in 60/90 and ended up with a VERY thick slurry in no time in a rotary! He has also sent me worn diamond core drills that are discarded after they don't meet production standards(speed in cutting)!They range in size from about 4mm-35mm in diameter and cut agate/jasper like butter! You can see one of the core drill here where I drilled threw 2 fairly thick pieces of Queensland agate,,,,, Here are the 2 "plugs" and handles after drilling,,,, connrock Valuable bits, lot of folks would sure like to have those. That sure is some healthy looking agate. Valuable friend ! Safety glass has that layer of plastic, used in vehicles. it is tempered and real soft, unlike bottle glass. Yes, thick slurry in a hurry. Grinds super fast. Uh, table top glass is same way, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 1 inch thick, grinds so fast. You can heat table glass say over a camp fire(larger broken pieces in a steel bucket), then throw it in some Connecticut ice water and have a million little pieces instantly. It does not like to change temperature quickly LOL. There is a lens warehouse that sell old but new lenses, prisms, color filters. All out of borosilicate and flint glass that we could never afford when new. Lot of military optics. They sell grab bags cheap. Got some, they are on the bucket list to tumble. Ah-Surplus Shed-Fleetwood PA. check em out
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