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Post by johnjsgems on Mar 5, 2015 12:01:10 GMT -5
You don't say what polish you are using or pre polish for that matter. If the pre polish is 1000 or 1200 AO or tripoli powder you should have a satin finish at least. Then a good polish (optical cerium, AO 3-4 micron or even sub micron) should work. If the pre isn't giving a satin finish you may have material that isn't going to polish. Another issue I hear about (especially in desert areas) is hard water leaving rocks with a haze after polish. If that is the case use distilled water in the polish mix. It sounds like hard material but maybe a softer filler like ceramics would be good too.
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Post by captbob on Mar 5, 2015 12:09:57 GMT -5
All good points John! And, good call on the hard water. I use distilled water in my final 2 stages and didn't think to mention that.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 5, 2015 13:15:44 GMT -5
No problem with other methods captbob. Many ways to skin a cat.
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 5, 2015 15:26:59 GMT -5
Yes,could also be the city water too..
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 5, 2015 16:02:43 GMT -5
Yes,could also be the city water too.. Fossilman, if you have a slight shine after 500 or 1000 you are about home. That is the point where you are almost home bound on a polish. If you see no shine going into polish then a polish is doubtful. Those are a bit relative terms, but that is the way it is. I usually skip 1000 and go straight to polish, if after a week to 10 days in 500 a shine is developing. If not, I will run 1000 till a so so polish happens. then go to polish. That would be Rock Shed polish that they call AO 14,000.
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tkvancil
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 5, 2015 17:16:08 GMT -5
Here is what I used to do in rotary 3 pounders ... Had a barrel for each grit stage so my polish barrel was always clean. After the pre polish run, either 600 sic and or AO 1000, the rocks got a rotary cleaning in the prepolish barrel. 3/4 cups hot water, 1 tbs. borax and 1/2 tbs. ivory shavings, top off with plastic pellets to about 90% full barrel. Run overnight. Strain and rinse, water was always dark grey. Rocks and pellets back in with hot water and 2 tbs. borax. Run overnight again. If the water poured off white then the rocks were good, if still grey another overnight borax run.
For polish I always used 6 tbs. of polish, lortones recommended amount. Some say that's too much but always worked for me. Barrel 80% full, used ceramic media if rocks didn't make volume alone. 5/8 cup water seemed to be the right amount. With 6 tbs. of polish the slurry was thick. Run 2 weeks. Rinse and do an overnight burnish with 3/4 cup water , 2 tbs. borax and topped off at 90 to 95 % plastic pellets.
Now for my two cents ... I'm with Capt Bob, never used a thickener in my rotarys and always got good results. If you decide to try it I would stay away from the Karo syrup. There's an old thread here somewhere. A member tried Karo with explosive results. Slurry everywhere when the lid blew off the tumbler.
Also if you are going to put them back in I would re-run the pre-polish. I tried throwing good polish after bad once and it did not work.
Don't give up, sounds like your not ready to, so that's good. Been tumbling since 2010 and still have AhHa moments. My first rotary batch couldn't hold a candle to my last one.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 5, 2015 20:48:14 GMT -5
I never added plastics or ceramic filler to agates. Just a good range of sizes. Obsidian and soft rocks yes.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 5, 2015 22:35:40 GMT -5
I like agate filler better than using ceramics when tumbling agate. I always add 3-4 pounds of chips and bits in the 1/2 to 1 inch size range for a filler for a 15 pound barrel. Space is valuable and grit costly. Agate filler does a fine job with agate. Looks great too. Close up of small chips. Got a nice pile of these over the years:
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 5, 2015 22:48:25 GMT -5
I use agate filler too...Have the small ones I pick up on the gravel river beds....
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 6, 2015 8:41:50 GMT -5
fossilman-I used to only use the sugar at the polish step. I now use it in all rotary steps. Not as a thickener so much in the coarse-220-500-1000 steps, but as a lubricant and grit carrier. The dissolved sugar makes the slurry heavier instantly and helps to float the grit in the slurry. Sugar water is heavier than clean water. Just as dirty water full of rock dust is heavier than clean water. Both carry the grit better. The sugar has an added bonus of being slick providing lubrication. Similar to using straight water in a rock saw verses using oil. The oil is a cutting agent. It is certainly not mandatory. I think I was clear on that. It is just one of many methods.
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The Dad_Ohs
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Mar 6, 2015 8:52:51 GMT -5
I wouldn't say you had too much water, just more than most would use. That being said, I definitely think it was too thin a mix to give you the polish you wanted. With most of the earlier grit sizes, as it breaks down it creates a "mud mix" of ground grit and stone that you lose as your grit size gets finer. to combat this the use of a thickening agent is needed or a lot of filler and smaller amounts of material to be polished (less material to bump into each other) I save my polish mix after the rocks are done and set it out in the sun in a bowl to evaporate, leaving me with a very fine powder that contains only ground polish and minimal stone dust. I then add about 2 tsp of this to my next polish run as a thickener. I must admit the idea of using sugar or the metamucil does sound easier, and I plan to try it myself. either way good luck with it and please post pics so we can see how it progresses.
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 8, 2015 7:22:25 GMT -5
.....Note about water and slurry-some kind of thickener/lubricant is best. Not too thick, about like store bought orange juice with pulp left in it. Not near as thick as pancake syrup. Coarse and 220 step often makes it's own slurry, 500-1000 and polish are often too thin too suit me. I simply add 2-3 cups of sugar per 6 pounds of rock right from the start of 220-500-1000 and polish steps in the rotary. That way I am assured that the slurry is suspending and carrying the grit to the rocks right from the start. Straight water clean water is not a good grit carrying slurry. The sooner it gets dirty from rock dust the better. I have thrown clay, lime, a bit of wetted newspaper pulp, Karo syrup and such to get a slightly thick slurry going right from the start of each step. Sugar has always been repetitive, cheap, free from foreign particles and a great lubricant. So the sugar. Jim, I just want to confirm that you add 2-3 pounds of sugar per 6 pounds of rock to your rotary tumbles?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2015 8:13:00 GMT -5
Intheswamp 2-3 cups of sugar/6. Now I use about a 3/4 cup red clay/6 in coarse and 220. And then go to the vibe for 500-1000-polish runs
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 8, 2015 8:26:28 GMT -5
Oops, sorry, I miscalculated (not enough coffee)...that would be 1 to 1-1/2 pounds of sugar. That makes more sense. I've got plenty of clay around here (not surprised, eh? ) so may try that later on. I was reading about psyllium and ingawh's 2-step process and re-kindled my curiosity about slurry thickeners. Don't worry, though, I'm not going off on a tangent until I get some basics figured out.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 8, 2015 8:53:09 GMT -5
Intheswamp 2-3 cups of sugar/6. Now I use about a 3/4 cup red clay/6 in coarse and 220. And then go to the vibe for 500-1000-polish runs Does the clay have to be red? I hope Ed can I find some to use.....
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Oct 8, 2015 8:57:43 GMT -5
Nope, we don't have any red clay over here in south Alabama, not a bit, nope, never seen any of the stuff, not sure exactly what it is....
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Oct 8, 2015 9:38:07 GMT -5
Maybe I need to get some red clay from the boss man too..............Thumbs up
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Post by captbob on Oct 8, 2015 9:49:44 GMT -5
*sigh*
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Oct 8, 2015 10:51:43 GMT -5
Never tried any other colors. Can speak from experience only, no theories here. Ed- that is two to three cups of sugar per six pounds of rock. sugar in cups, rocks in pounds. rockpickerforever-can you point that out to Edward ? eni mine mini mow, may the tumble rumble with out a fumble, beware of the terra cotta piñata
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 8, 2015 11:14:25 GMT -5
Never tried any other colors. Can speak from experience only, no theories here. Ed- that is two to three cups of sugar per six pounds of rock. sugar in cups, rocks in pounds. rockpickerforever-can you point that out to Edward ? eni mine mini mow, may the tumble rumble with out a fumble, beware of the terra cotta piñata
Ed Intheswamp didja get that? Sugar measured in cups, rocks measure in lbs. Read all of jamesp 's posts, add up all the numbers, then take the average (since it seems to me he says different amounts in each post)... IDK, you speak suthen, have the same thought processes. Maybe you understand what the heck he means?? (J/K, James!) Tee hee!
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