Paul
starting to shine!
Member since April 2015
Posts: 38
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Post by Paul on Apr 21, 2015 17:31:16 GMT -5
Hi,
I'm new here and to rock tumbling. I just ordered a Lortone 33B tumbling kit so my 11 year old daughter and I can start polishing some of the rocks we've collected over the years. We like rockhounding at beaches and riverbeds (although we hesitate to call ourselves "rock hounds" due to our lack of knowledge). Anyway, we have several pounds of various types of stones. We're honestly not sure what most of them are yet but we do seem to have a lot of agates and different types of quartz. I've read quite a bit of information on getting started in tumbling including the guide on this forum but I'm not sure how to start off with these stones. Most of them are already rounded pretty good and fairly smooth. Should we skip the first or second stage grit with these? We both know that patience is going to be a big part of this hobby but we'd like to be efficient and not waste grit or tumbling time if it's not necessary.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks, Paul
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Post by captbob on Apr 21, 2015 17:47:22 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum Paul & daughter! I wouldn't skip steps, especially TWO steps, but maybe having had Mother nature do some of the rounding for you will save you quite a bit of time. Lack if patience is usually what turns new folks off to the tumbling hobby, so having well shaped rocks to start off with is a real bonus. Maybe you can skip the coarsest grit, (I wouldn't, but I have all the time in the world and hundreds of pounds of grit) but it's hard to say without seeing what you are working with. Can you post pictures of what you want to run in your first batch? (must be hosted somewhere to post) What grits did you get to work with? Sounds like you and your daughter are off to a great start on an addictive life long hobby! PS: if'n you've got the bug to go around picking up rocks that look interesting to you, you are rockhounds! You will pick up more information on your rocks as you go along. Enjoy the journey!
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Paul
starting to shine!
Member since April 2015
Posts: 38
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Post by Paul on Apr 21, 2015 18:16:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply captbob. We'll take some pictures tonight and post them. We've already started separating them out into "these look the same" groups.
The kit I ordered comes with the following grits:
coarse (60-90 grit) medium (120-220 grit) fine grit (500 pre polish) our polish
I ordered it from The Rock Shed. I couldn't find any local shops in our area selling kits (or real tumblers even, just plastic toy tumblers) so I called Lortone and they sent me there. The "our polish" is presumably aluminum oxide since that seems to be the only polish they carry. It also included enough rough for two loads.
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Post by captbob on Apr 21, 2015 18:39:26 GMT -5
The initial coarse (60/90 grit) grind and take a month to several months to achieve a good shape before moving on to the next stages, so I would stick with your found and rounded rocks to start to lessen the time required. The rocks you got from The Rock Shed can be a future batch.
Most "store" instructions are very misleading on the time required to go from step to step. If you've been reading here, you may have figured out that each step can take weeks to months rather than days to A week.
As you wrote, patience is the key to quality tumbled stones.
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on Apr 21, 2015 20:36:09 GMT -5
Here's some pebbles I tumble polished in a rotary from Lake Erie. I did use the 60/90 coarse grind even though they were already rounded, I just didn't have to go months. The other steps were the same, except I probably had a 1000 grit before I went to final polish -- can't find my notes at the moment. My picture host is not great but as you can see even an Instagram can be used as a picture host if you're in a hurry. I personally wouldn't have selected these rocks to tumble but they were from a relative and although they have some porosity I have to admit that in person they really did end up taking a nice shine. Your mileage may vary. My personal preference is to always grind a bit on the wheel before going to the tumbler but that's because I'm one of those folks who started out as a cabber before I got into tumbling. If you start out with the tumbler first, it probably IS an excellent idea to start with beach rounded stones...The stones at the top/background are mini thundereggs, by all means, do NOT start out trying to tumble those little suckers.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 21, 2015 20:56:10 GMT -5
Hi Paul,
I started out just like you, but with my son being interested. He's lost interest mostly, but I'm hooked. I agree with all the advice given above. I have tumbled lots of rocks from the Great Lakes. The rocks I pick up are well rounded, but almost always still have cracks or holes. I'm never really satisfied with rocks I tumble that have flaws, so I take the time to tumble them until they're as perfect as possible. For rounded beach rocks, I can usually have the first stage done in a month. I think it all comes down to what you're happy with and how much patience you and your daughter have. I enjoy looking at them each week when I do grit changes, so I don't think of it as taking months to get done. It's more like a week between getting to see how they're coming along. You might want to hurry the first batch a little just so you can see the shine a little sooner and then take more time on your next batch. I would put them in 60/90 for at least one week though.
Rob
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,666
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Post by Fossilman on Apr 21, 2015 21:57:25 GMT -5
Welcome Paul......................I just started tumbling too and this forum is the best place for loads of information about anything rocks...
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Paul
starting to shine!
Member since April 2015
Posts: 38
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Post by Paul on Apr 21, 2015 22:25:36 GMT -5
Thanks for all the great tips! These are samples of some of the rocks we were thinking about running in our first batches. The first group is a mixture of agate and quartz we think but we're not sure on the second. Full size: Rocks1Full size: Rocks2We need to do some more work on identification I think. Right now we're just kind of putting rocks that seem similar into buckets. It's kind of tough though. Haven't found a ton of good resources that cover stones at this stage. Usually pictures are of either rough or polished, not "ocean" tumbled, so we're having a hard time. There is a rock and gem club not too far from us that seems sort of active (a lot of inactive ones around here it seems) so we thought maybe we'd head over there and have them walk us through identifying some of our rocks. Right now we're mostly guessing. Anyway, thanks again for all the great advice.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 22, 2015 9:44:27 GMT -5
The rocks in pic 1 look like what I generically call river pebbles. I find a good amount of them here in Illinois and have polished many of them. For the most part they are quartz, agate and feldspar. At least what I find around here. They do take a good shine. Personally I don't let a rock go to stage two with less than three weeks in 60/90, fresh grit each week. Some of the rocks you have could take longer than that IF you want them perfectly rounded and smooth. Purely a matter of taste.
Your 33b is a nice little machine. Have two and like them. The instructions say to load the barrel 1/2 to 2/3 full. You actually want them 2/3 to 3/4 full. At 1/2 full the rocks will get chipped and or cracked from my experience. Instructions will also say water to the bottom of top layer of rocks. Most will agree this is too much water. I use 1/2 cup in a 2/3 to 3/4 full barrel, some folks use a little less water. Also if you are concerned with weight don't be. A properly loaded barrel will be heavier than the 3# it's rated for. Have run mine "heavy" for a long time with no ill effects.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 22, 2015 10:56:01 GMT -5
I'm not much good at identifying rocks either, but my guess would be quartz for the first pile. The second pile looks like some sort of granite. Notice how the black parts are more recessed than the white parts? That's because they're softer. In your tumbler, those black parts will wear more and probably won't shine up. That's called "undercutting". When I've tumbled granite, they get shiny except for the black parts.
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Post by captbob on Apr 22, 2015 11:45:27 GMT -5
I definitely wouldn't skip the coarse grits with that first group. Getting the cavities out of a few of those is going to take some time. If they don't tumble out, take care moving them on to finer grits stages. Grit can become trapped in those little holes and carry on to the next step contaminating that run. They should polish up nicely, but you're gonna have to find some color for your next batch!
You may want to place an order for more coarse grit when you have the time. You will find that you use considerably more of your coarse grit while shaping your stones than you will use of the finer grits to smooth the rocks further in the latter stages.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 22, 2015 12:34:48 GMT -5
Kingsley North has the best price I've seen for that course grit. I use 80 grit from Kingsley instead of 60/90. I haven't noticed a difference. I ordered 45 lb. bag to get the best price.
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Paul
starting to shine!
Member since April 2015
Posts: 38
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Post by Paul on Apr 22, 2015 12:43:02 GMT -5
Thanks again for the great tips! I do want to get some color. I'm hoping I get a good mix in the rough they're sending me. We do have some other stuff which is a bit more colorful but they're very small for the most part (less than dime size). I'm not sure if they could be polished since they're so small.
I was planning on running both barrels with coarse grit to start off with and then switch to having one run coarse grit and the other running the later stage grits. But then I read that it's a good practice to have a different barrel dedicated to each stage. I don't think I want to make that kind of investment yet so would it be better to dedicate one barrel for stage 1 and 2 and the other for pre-polish and polish?
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Post by captbob on Apr 22, 2015 12:55:05 GMT -5
Not sure Paul is up to buying 45 pounds of grit quite yet maybe someday. The 5 pound bag from the Rock Shed should take you through a batch or two until you decide if this rock tumbling thing is for you or not. I wouldn't have a dedicated barrel for polish at this stage. You need both barrels to run rough for now. Just do good barrel cleanouts between steps. In my shop, I usually run two barrels of rough to come up with one barrel worth moving on. The rocks not ready to move on can be run longer or put aside for someday. Not all rocks will be worth moving on to further stages. Some of them will never be. Small rocks will take a polish just fine. Throw the smalls in as filler.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 22, 2015 12:57:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about different barrels. It is nice to have a barrel just for polishing, but I use the same barrel for all other stages. The large majority of time tumbling is spent in the first stage, so you'll need both barrels doing stage one as much as possible. If you clean everything well before polish, you should be ok. Someday if you're really into it, buy a polish barrel.
You need to have a mix of sizes in your barrel, so throw those small rocks in. You shouldn't wear them away to nothing. You need small rocks between the larger rocks so you have lots of surfaces making contact. I have a bucket of very small gravel that I picked up on a beach that I throw in when I don't have enough smalls. I just keep them running until they fall through the holes of my colander.
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Post by captbob on Apr 22, 2015 12:58:57 GMT -5
great minds... or something like that
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Paul
starting to shine!
Member since April 2015
Posts: 38
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Post by Paul on Apr 23, 2015 14:43:18 GMT -5
More great advice and greatly appreciated!
Looks like our tumbler kit will arrive on Saturday and we're pretty excited. Heading to the local Mega-lo-mart to pick up some bins and tools like measuring spoons and cups. Don't have any spares in my kitchen I'd be willing to sacrifice. I was thinking I need about 10 decent sized bins with lids to hold grit, polish, slurry, etc. And a colander with pretty small holes. I figure I get get all of that pretty cheap.
Probably getting a little ahead of myself, but in the beginner guide by Shelby Raymond it says to keep your slurry. So is the process to dump the barrel in a container, let the slurry drain off on its own, and then wash the rocks over a different container? Or does the entire cleanup happen in the slurry container?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 23, 2015 16:12:25 GMT -5
I have never saved my slurry and I have no plans to start. Used slurry is used, I want fresh grit. Besides, what a pain to save it.
I got collanders and measuring spoons at a dollar store. I use Rubbermaid Take Along containers to hold rocks in various stages of tumbling. I have cheap plastic shoe boxes for rough rock storage.
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Paul
starting to shine!
Member since April 2015
Posts: 38
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Post by Paul on Apr 23, 2015 16:33:14 GMT -5
What do you do with your slurry to get rid of it?
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 23, 2015 17:07:35 GMT -5
I built a box in the woods behind my house that I pour it into. Over the past three years, I've poured too much slurry in and it's not draining as well, so I might have to move it over. Now I let the water set in a bucket overnight so the slurry settles. Then I pour the water into the hole and try to retain as much rock dust as possible. I pour the rest of the water into a separate bucket and let the rock sludge dry out in the first bucket. When it's dry, I dump it in the garbage. I always have two buckets for slurry/rinse water. Maybe someone else has a better method.
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