mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 17, 2015 14:26:09 GMT -5
Hi all. I need help from all the users of this forum. I seem to be having a lot of problems getting a good polish on my rocks, and could use your help. Here is a picture of one of my last, and least successful tumble. As you can see, some of the rocks look alright, but the majority just don't seem to want be polished. I had a little more success with my last load, (see the next picture)as a few of the rocks came out with a good sheen, but the majority of the rocks were very dull. I have included a picture of my tumblers, for your information if nothing else I use 80 grit for the first tumble, 220 grit for the second stage, 400 grit for the third stage and pumice powder for the polishing stage. I do not use any fillers of any kind (maybe the problem lies there?) I hope that I have given enough information for the kind people of this forum to offer me some advice. If it isn't I will gladly provide more information on request. Thank you to all, and a big hello from the U.K
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Post by orrum on Jun 17, 2015 14:56:34 GMT -5
Pumice powder is old school. You need to shift to Aluminum oxide. Look at The Rock Shed or JSGEMS to read about it for tumbling or cabbing.
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azgnoinc
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2014
Posts: 484
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Post by azgnoinc on Jun 17, 2015 15:16:27 GMT -5
You look to have a nice mixture of sizes, but also different materials. General rule of thumb- stick to one type of material (all jasper, agate, quartz, etc) per batch - unless all of the materials you are tumbling are roughly the same hardness in each batch. The quartz & others look "frosted" - this is a results of not enough, or in your case total lack of filler materials - these fillers keep the rocks from smashing & getting frosted - so run a whole batch of your quartz & quartz like materials (appears to be some amethyst in this batch which is fine) with plenty of fillers & you'll get better results using AO versus pumice. Also - the real soft stuff (looks to be some amazonite in this recent batch) is the toughest to get a decent shine on, especially when using a rotary tumbler - so I can't tell you how to get those materials super shiny - hope this helps!!
Gene
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 17, 2015 15:25:39 GMT -5
Could well be the pumice powder. There was a discussion on here a while back about pumice. It got me curious so I did a little reading about it. Seems as if it makes a good metal polish but a not so good lapidary polish.
I also suggest giving the AO polish a try. I use what the Rockshed sells and it hasn't failed yet. Have also heard good things from users of JSGEMS product.
I polish in a vibe now but have done lots of rotary polishes. Used to use 6 tbs. polish in a 3# barrel with 5/8 cups water. Some may say that's too much water and polish but it makes a thick slurry that I always liked. I'd also fill the barrel to 80% full. If there was not enough rock to make the 80% I would add ceramic for filler. The thick slurry and slight overfill gave good cushioning and slowed things down a bit so the rocks would run 14 to 21 days.
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Post by 150FromFundy on Jun 17, 2015 17:23:38 GMT -5
I'll echo the replies on the use of Aluminium Oxide (AO) in the final polish stages.
Do a pre-polish with 1000F AO. Burnish with borax. Do a polish with AO polish. Burnish with borax.
Darryl.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,687
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 17, 2015 18:28:05 GMT -5
Pumic powder isn't a good idea anymore..........I don't use borax yet-but do use Ivory soap after my final polish..Run the soap and hot water for about 3 hours,brings a nice shine..
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 18, 2015 12:55:53 GMT -5
Pumice powder is old school. You need to shift to Aluminum oxide. Look at The Rock Shed or JSGEMS to read about it for tumbling or cabbing. Thank you orrum. I can see that the collectives opinion echoes yours. Pumice is bad, Aluminium Oxide is good I will also take a look at the sites your suggested. Many thanks
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 18, 2015 13:06:50 GMT -5
You look to have a nice mixture of sizes, but also different materials. General rule of thumb- stick to one type of material (all jasper, agate, quartz, etc) per batch - unless all of the materials you are tumbling are roughly the same hardness in each batch. The quartz & others look "frosted" - this is a results of not enough, or in your case total lack of filler materials - these fillers keep the rocks from smashing & getting frosted - so run a whole batch of your quartz & quartz like materials (appears to be some amethyst in this batch which is fine) with plenty of fillers & you'll get better results using AO versus pumice. Also - the real soft stuff (looks to be some amazonite in this recent batch) is the toughest to get a decent shine on, especially when using a rotary tumbler - so I can't tell you how to get those materials super shiny - hope this helps!! Gene Thank you azgnoinc. You've hit the nail on the head there. I am completely ignorant to what type of rough rocks I currently have, and just throw in whatever rocks I have at the time into the tumbler, and hope for the best I have yet to figure out how to identify individual rocks, I really must look into an easier way of figuring out what material I currently have. Thank you again for your help.
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 18, 2015 13:28:44 GMT -5
Could well be the pumice powder. There was a discussion on here a while back about pumice. It got me curious so I did a little reading about it. Seems as if it makes a good metal polish but a not so good lapidary polish. I also suggest giving the AO polish a try. I use what the Rockshed sells and it hasn't failed yet. Have also heard good things from users of JSGEMS product. I polish in a vibe now but have done lots of rotary polishes. Used to use 6 tbs. polish in a 3# barrel with 5/8 cups water. Some may say that's too much water and polish but it makes a thick slurry that I always liked. I'd also fill the barrel to 80% full. If there was not enough rock to make the 80% I would add ceramic for filler. The thick slurry and slight overfill gave good cushioning and slowed things down a bit so the rocks would run 14 to 21 days. Hi tkvancil. I will most definitely be changing to Aluminium Oxide Wow. Six tablespoons of polish in a 3lb barrel !!!!! I have only been using 1 tablespoon, and I have only let it tumble for about a week. I will have to review my tumbling procedures Can I ask why you use ceramic filler for the polishing stage? I'm sure that I read somewhere that ceramic filler is for the initial stages and plastic pellets are for the polishing stage. Or is it just personal choice??? Thank you for your reply
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 18, 2015 13:49:13 GMT -5
I'll echo the replies on the use of Aluminium Oxide (AO) in the final polish stages. Do a pre-polish with 1000F AO. Burnish with borax. Do a polish with AO polish. Burnish with borax. Darryl. Hi 150FromFundy. Thanks for your advice. I don't know if we have Borax in the U.K, but I'll have a look for it. I don't suppose I could substitute it with washing power until I find some could I? Thanks for your help.
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 18, 2015 14:00:15 GMT -5
Pumic powder isn't a good idea anymore..........I don't use borax yet-but do use Ivory soap after my final polish..Run the soap and hot water for about 3 hours,brings a nice shine.. Hi Fossilman. Thank you for your advice. I'll have a look to see if I can get any in the U.K :-)
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Post by orrum on Jun 18, 2015 14:14:19 GMT -5
I imagine the world has 20 mule team borax. If not Dreft works and some use Tide. I think Borax Does SOMETHING Magical.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 18, 2015 15:29:50 GMT -5
mol the 6tbs. polish is from lortone's instruction manual. I only found out many people use less when I joined this board. I stuck to lortone's formula because it was working for me and never experimented with less. As to the ceramics I guess that is preference. They can be passed through all stages from coarse to polish, just as long as they are cleaned the same way one would clean rocks between steps. No need for separate containers for different grits like plastic. The slightly overfilled barrel leaves less room providing "cushion" which is what plastic is for. Ceramic filler at 80% volume gave me a better shine than plastic at 75% volume.
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 20, 2015 6:04:01 GMT -5
I imagine the world has 20 mule team borax. If not Dreft works and some use Tide. I think Borax Does SOMETHING Magical. I have found someone in the U.K selling 20 mule team borax on Ebay Thanks for the heads up orrum
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 20, 2015 6:09:01 GMT -5
mol the 6tbs. polish is from lortone's instruction manual. I only found out many people use less when I joined this board. I stuck to lortone's formula because it was working for me and never experimented with less. As to the ceramics I guess that is preference. They can be passed through all stages from coarse to polish, just as long as they are cleaned the same way one would clean rocks between steps. No need for separate containers for different grits like plastic. The slightly overfilled barrel leaves less room providing "cushion" which is what plastic is for. Ceramic filler at 80% volume gave me a better shine than plastic at 75% volume. I can see that now I have read the instruction manual tkvancil ***** Stupid question Alert ***** I was reading something last night about a guy that uses marbles as a filler instead of ceramic pellets !!!!!! Do you think this is a good idea, or just plain dumb I ask this because I seem to be struggling to find suitable (and cheap!!!) ceramic pellets. I can find plenty on Ebay from the U.S, but none from the U.K !!!!!!
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Post by orrum on Jun 20, 2015 8:11:27 GMT -5
Break up glass, but also add a little aquarium gravel. Not much aquarium gravel because too much concentrates and doesn't stay evenly dispersed. Lots of smalls is a good thing.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jun 20, 2015 8:26:39 GMT -5
I had been running some obsidian using marbles and broken glass for filler/smalls. Was having to burp the barrels every twelve hours. At some point all the glass and marbles were removed and the gas build up went with them.
Never tried glass with harder stuff like agate. Any gas issues there? I could see how loss of volume could offset any gas.
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 20, 2015 16:15:54 GMT -5
Thanks orrum, good call. Aquarium gravel is quite cheap and broken glass is free :-) I think I will get some second hand marbles and give them a try. Thanks tkvancil :-) I have also found somebody on Ebay selling 24 grit Aluminium Oxide. I have only used 80 grit to start with on rough rocks, and I know 24 grit would wear the rocks down a lot quicker, but would it be too harsh for the rocks to start with?
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Post by krazydiamond on Jun 25, 2015 16:51:05 GMT -5
Personally, I use 60/90 for shaping, 220 as second stage and then 600 grit as a pre-polish. I add plastic pellets with the 600 stage for cushioning. Micro Alumina for polish all the way with plenty of plastic pellets. Burnish on Borax for a few hours, more clean pellets.
Good Luck!
KD
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mol
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2015
Posts: 17
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Post by mol on Jun 28, 2015 15:34:45 GMT -5
Hi krazydiamond.
I use 80 grit to start, then 200, then 400, then AO polish. It seems to be going alright at the moment, but I still don't really know what I'm doing ;-) I have just bought some marbles for the initial 80/220 grit stages and some plastic pellets for polishing, so we'll see how that goes.
Thanks for the help :-)
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