Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 7, 2015 20:12:00 GMT -5
Okay, so ... I have always said in these threads that I cannot use a vibratory machine because I live in an apartment and the noise might get me in trouble. BUT, I have read so much positive information about using vibes for the final polishing stage so I am looking for information on how anyone might have quieted down a vibe machine.
I am interested in either the Thumler UV-10MB Industrial (4 pound bowl) or the UV-10 Industrial (10 pound bowl).
Being smaller, is the 4 pounder quieter than the 10 pounder?
Has anyone found a mechanical way to quiet the machine or suppress noise transmission?
Is anyone selling a used machine in either size?
I figure the only thing I can do is try it if I can find any good information on quieting, and if it is still too loud, I'll just have to resell the machine.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Peruano on Oct 7, 2015 20:33:25 GMT -5
Often the amount of noise produced is related to the load of stones, amount of water and stage of the tumble. My vibe starts out really noisy but as soon as I add water and soap, it calms to a certain extent. Ditto when I put the lid on. Mine sits in a workshop and I can hear it running through the closed door, but I'd bet if it was in a wooden box, perhaps lined with insulation or foam it would be even more quiet. I'm not suggesting placing it in a totally closed box due to heat and fire considerations, but enclosed on 4 sides and an open top would probably calm it significantly. Much would depend on how close your neighbors are: under, over, or immediately beside would all be different. You need a friend with a garage that you can use if things go south with noise in the pad. Set up correctly a vibe should roll the rocks like a pot of chile boiling slowly and produce minimal noise. Good luck. Tom
|
|
rastageezer
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 169
|
Post by rastageezer on Oct 7, 2015 21:12:47 GMT -5
Tumbling in an apartment is probably not the best idea. Angry neighbors, not good.
|
|
victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,975
|
Post by victor1941 on Oct 7, 2015 21:13:15 GMT -5
I think that you could place your unit in a large Styrofoam box(top on) and vent the box with a small vent fan attached to the box that would draw air through holes cut in the lower sides or elsewhere to remove motor heat. My polishing stage in a UV-18 takes 5 days and the entire cycle is 12 days as a reference point.
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 7, 2015 21:22:36 GMT -5
Much would depend on how close your neighbors are: under, over, or immediately beside would all be different. I am in a cluster building of eight units. I'm on top with neighbors below and on the same level on two sides. Not an option. First, no one I know has a private garage to use, and second, if I have to check the water level threes times per day it would not work to travel to a garage somewhere. I do actually have a garage "space", but it is not private and is shared with three other people. The machine would either disappear or the maintenance staff would notice the noise and bust me with the complex for electrical usage and noise. A box is a possible option. Even open topped I would want a fan built-in. But I am more interested in physical modifications to the machine itself. I'd also like to know how much vibration is actually felt in the UV-10/MB base as opposed to the bowl assembly. That determines a lot about how much noise can be attenuated. For example, in the Lot-O vibes the motor shakes the entire machine frame so vibration isolation would be more difficult. The Thumlers have the motor and bowl floating on coil springs so there is much less movement in the base. Thanks.
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 7, 2015 21:27:19 GMT -5
Tumbling in an apartment is probably not the best idea. Angry neighbors, not good. I am already tumbling in the apartment with two rotaries, but I have done modifications and special mounting that makes them almost silent. You can't even hear them outside the room. That's why I am asking for anyone's experiences modifying a Thumler vibe to decrease noise. It probably can be done. It's a matter of how. Thanks.
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Oct 7, 2015 21:43:56 GMT -5
If you would be willing to use lots of ceramic media in your loads you can make it almost whisper quiet. It would cut down on the amount of rock you can put in but I bet it would still more than keep up with the 1st stage rock you produce from your rotarys. Right now I am running a bunch of cabs through my UV10. It's like 80% media and 20 % cabs. Maybe even 90-10. But you can barely hear it at all. Maybe a 50-50 mix might be all you need to keep world piece. When they are totally full of stone they are bloody noisy. The media makes a hell of a difference
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 7, 2015 22:48:59 GMT -5
If you would be willing to use lots of ceramic media in your loads you can make it almost whisper quiet. It would cut down on the amount of rock you can put in but I bet it would still more than keep up with the 1st stage rock you produce from your rotarys. Right now I am running a bunch of cabs through my UV10. It's like 80% media and 20 % cabs. Maybe even 90-10. But you can barely hear it at all. Maybe a 50-50 mix might be all you need to keep world piece. When they are totally full of stone they are bloody noisy. The media makes a hell of a difference That wouldn't be a problem for me at all. Right now I am running 6 pound rotary barrels at about 2 parts media to 1 part stone. By the time I reach the polish stage it's more like 4 to 1. Since my idea was to use the vibe for the polishing stages only, I had assumed I would be using a high ratio of plastic pellet or mini ceramic to stone anyway. What I need to figure out is which machine would be better for me, the UV-10MB 4 pounder or the UV-10, 10 pounder. I would be rounding stones in four 6 pound barrels and two 3 pound barrels and funneling that into the vibe for the polish stage. I am used to rotary polish runtimes of 12 to 20 days. Given the short run time for a vibe of 2 or 3 days of polish. I might be able to keep up with just the 4 pound vibe, or easily with the 10 pound vibe. My question would be whether the smaller 4 pound vibe is noticeably quieter than the 10 pound model. Judging by the base height, it looks like the 4 pounder uses the smaller open stack motor while the taller 10 pounder uses the closed can style motor. But I haven't seen the under side of the 4 pounder. If the 4 pounder was significantly quieter I'd have to try and make that size work. I could still polish harder stones in the rotaries and just do the softer stones in the vibe. Do you have any experience with the UV-10MB 4 pound machine? Thanks.
|
|
Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
|
Post by Tom on Oct 7, 2015 23:00:18 GMT -5
I don't know about the 4 pounder, but with all the rotaries you have I would get the 10 pounder and use it for everything other than 1 st stage. Hopefully someone else will chime in and confirm what I am saying about how quiet it is when using lots of media is true.
|
|
rastageezer
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 169
|
Post by rastageezer on Oct 7, 2015 23:07:34 GMT -5
I run 3 12lbs barrels 24/7 and can just barely keep a Loto fed. But that's just me.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Oct 7, 2015 23:58:56 GMT -5
Put it in the refrigerator. There is nothing you can do with a vibe that you can't do with a rotary. Vibes just do it faster!
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 8, 2015 1:04:47 GMT -5
Put it in the refrigerator. LMAO ... There ya go. I can use it to make frozen daquiris. Except that I am having a lot of trouble with stones persistently having impact damage that occurs only in the polish stage. I hear that isn't an issue with final polish in a vibe. That problem alone is destroying at least half of the material I tumble. If a vibe doesn't do that then I will be money ahead in the long run. Great idea with the frig though. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by captbob on Oct 8, 2015 1:17:15 GMT -5
Except that I am having a lot of trouble with stones persistently having impact damage that occurs only in the polish stage. In that case, you aren't using the proper cushioning or amount of water. It's kinda late, so I'll go back tomorrow and see if I can find if you have posted about your efforts. But I'm telling you, while a vibe will speed up your process, it is no gentler than a rotary and maybe even less so. It's not the rotary tumbler messing up your stones, it's just that you haven't got the method quite right - YET. Unless speed is your goal, you can do whatever you want in a rotary. A few bucks for the proper cushioning media is a whole lot less expensive than buying a vibe.
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on Oct 8, 2015 8:55:19 GMT -5
I run a vibrasonic in the spare bedroom, you cant even tell it is going.
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 8, 2015 12:03:01 GMT -5
Except that I am having a lot of trouble with stones persistently having impact damage that occurs only in the polish stage. In that case, you aren't using the proper cushioning or amount of water. It's kinda late, so I'll go back tomorrow and see if I can find if you have posted about your efforts. But I'm telling you, while a vibe will speed up your process, it is no gentler than a rotary and maybe even less so. It's not the rotary tumbler messing up your stones, it's just that you haven't got the method quite right - YET. Unless speed is your goal, you can do whatever you want in a rotary. A few bucks for the proper cushioning media is a whole lot less expensive than buying a vibe. I have posted many times about the impact and frosting. I also have a very recent one about sunstone. I have been through the trial and error about polishing damage with every conceivable media type and combination and fill level to the point that most recently my polish stages use poly plastic pellet filled to nearly a full barrel and a smaller batch of stones. The problem is better, but not gone. Harder materials like jaspers, Mohs 6 and 7, don't seem to be a problem. But with softer materials, Mohs 5 and below, I am still getting edge frost and pitting and yet oddly I can tumble glass cullet with no problem. I have invested in every kind of media available, plus some that are not normally associated with tumbling, such as the little plastic X's used for spacing tiles before grouting. Those are tough little buggers and work well in knitting the media together to cushion the stones. I recently found a new plastic media that is denser than poly pellet and shaped in 1/4 inch half spheres. It appears to be clear ABS plastic. I am hoping that the increased density/weight of the plastic will slow down the falling action in a nearly full barrel. I have also considered using a rheostat to slow down the RPM of the rotation and thus decrease falling impacts. As it is now all I am accomplishing is ruling out whole classes of stone that I dare not polish or risk 100% batch losses. And yes, I know that I can backup the stages and remove the damage by going back to 500 grit and then forward again, but by the time I do that once or twice the batch is essentially ground to gravel and unusable and my investment ground away with it. But this is not my only reason for wanting to try a vibe in addition to the rotaries. Everything I read about vibes seems to indicate that the slow roll cycling of the material in the bowl avoids impact problems when the bowl has a high level of media, and yet the 3K vibration does the polishing quickly. A speed boost in the operation would be a plus too. So if the vibe stopped the polishing impacts and speeded it way up at the same time, I'd be a happy camper. As it is now, every experiment with a new formula or procedure takes a month to prove or disprove so at this rate it will take years to work this out. As for the expense of adding a vibe, it is fully Schedule C tax deductable, and if I stop the batch losses the extra sales will pay for the machine in the long run. If I can work out the noise issues, then I could hybridize my whole setup to do prerounding in the rotaries and everything else in vibes at an overall faster rate. If there are any other fixes for the polishing stage losses I would love to know. It "seems" like I have tried everything suggested and everything I can think of to stop the polishing losses and so far all I am doing is determining which materials I can polish and which I can't. I also realize that it seems like now I want to throw equipment at the problem. Yup. I feel like I have tried everything procedural and I cannot stop the problem >reliably< on softer stones. So the purpose of this thread is to determine if it is viable to consider a vibe as a possible equipment based solution. A rheostat is another possible but unproven equipment based solution. It seems to me that the 27 RPM rotation of my QT66 is just too fast for soft stones. If you look at the distance a stone can fall based on the diameter of the barrel and the number of times per minute, it seems roughly equivalent to throwing the stone across the room at a wall. On the downside for a rheostat, a slowed RPM makes the polishing process even longer, but if it stopped the problem, then in the end I don't need multiple runs looking for a success. Admittedly I am grasping for a solution. It shouldn't be this difficult. Thanks.
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 8, 2015 12:33:47 GMT -5
I run a vibrasonic in the spare bedroom, you cant even tell it is going. Which model do you have? By any chance is it the Diamond Pacific MT-4 Mini? I have looked at those and wonder about the sound level due to the electrical induction vibration drive instead of an eccentric motor weight. Theoretically there should be less physically transmitted vibration from the base. But I used to have a Wagner sonic paint sprayer that was the loudest most obnoxious device on earth. So, there ya go. So much for theory. Thanks.
|
|
victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,975
|
Post by victor1941 on Oct 8, 2015 13:28:24 GMT -5
My UV-18 when properly filled with jasper/agate cabs and 50-60% small ceramic media from the Rock Shed provides a cushioned spiral rotation with no banging. The proper fill, grit or polish, and correct amount of water allow good control with minimum noise. I dumped the plastic pellets when told they don't work well in vibes. You might call the manufacture for decibel levels for the different machines.
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on Oct 8, 2015 14:59:20 GMT -5
I have one MT4 and also have an MT10. I have a Viking 35 lber also and it gets used more than any of them. I just got an older MT4 in an estate a few weeks ago. I am going to sell it but I haven't plugged it in to see if it works yet, but if you are interested I can check it out.
|
|
Enigman
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 163
|
Post by Enigman on Oct 8, 2015 15:46:20 GMT -5
I have one MT4 and also have an MT10. I have a Viking 35 lber also and it gets used more than any of them. I just got an older MT4 in an estate a few weeks ago. I am going to sell it but I haven't plugged it in to see if it works yet, but if you are interested I can check it out. Yes, I would be interested in the MT-4. You can PM me here and I can give you a standard e-mail address. What is the sound level of the MT-4 like when it runs empty. In other words, how loud is it right out of the box with no stones in it? I'm curious about how magnetic vibration compares to motor induced vibration. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on Oct 8, 2015 22:15:08 GMT -5
I just looked at it and it is a Geo-Sonics, looks like the precursor to the Minisonic mt4. Plugged it in and it purrs right along. It has a metal locking clasp instead of the rubber tie down clasp that they use now, looks like it might be too lose so it might need something in the cradle to keep it up high enough to keep tension on it. I am leaving for an elk hunting trip tomorrow so I will check in when I get back. If you still want it it is yours, we can work out the particulars when I get back next week.
PS- These are pretty quiet and this one is quieter than the MT4 I have when they are sitting side by side running empty. I find that they run quietest when they are almost full.
|
|