taryn
starting to shine!
Member since March 2016
Posts: 38
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Post by taryn on Apr 27, 2016 10:48:41 GMT -5
I've read in several places where people have checked to see if the grit has broken down... I understand that the grit breaks down as it's working but how do you know this has occurred and how do you "check" (other than knowing it should be this much in 24hrs, that much in 48hrs, etc)? With 120/220 and 500, for example. I use a Lot-o if that makes a difference.
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zrock1
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2016
Posts: 24
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Post by zrock1 on Apr 30, 2016 22:31:37 GMT -5
I just stick my fingers in and run the slurry through my fingertips.
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Post by vegasjames on May 1, 2016 3:23:19 GMT -5
I try brushing my teeth with it to see if it still makes my teeth sparkling white. Yes, I am just kidding. Don't try this at home or anywhere else.
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 1, 2016 17:10:14 GMT -5
In the Lot-O, I don't really worry if it has broken down. If you've used the proper amount of water and grit, it will do it's job in two days. You can run longer, but two days in each stage should work well. As for the proper amount of water, just fill in to the top with water and then drain as much as you can out. If it gets dry, add water very slowly until it starts moving again. You don't want any water setting on the bottom. For grit, I use 2 tablespoons of 120/220 or just plain 220 and then 1/2 TEAspoon of all grits and polish after that. I also add 1 tablespoon of borax to all stages except 220.
To answer your original question, I'd do what zrock1 suggested.
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sschus87
starting to shine!
Member since November 2015
Posts: 49
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Post by sschus87 on May 1, 2016 21:24:51 GMT -5
In the Lot-O, I don't really worry if it has broken down. If you've used the proper amount of water and grit, it will do it's job in two days. You can run longer, but two days in each stage should work well. As for the proper amount of water, just fill in to the top with water and then drain as much as you can out. If it gets dry, add water very slowly until it starts moving again. You don't want any water setting on the bottom. For grit, I use 2 tablespoons of 120/220 or just plain 220 and then 1/2 TEAspoon of all grits and polish after that. I also add 1 tablespoon of borax to all stages except 220. To answer your original question, I'd do what zrock1 suggested. Is this for rotary or vibe? I use 3# barrels for stage 1 and fill 2/3's full and only put enough water in that I can start to see it. Then I use 3 tablespoons of 46/70 grit and run for a few days before I recharge. I have not had a lot of luck getting a good slurry. Always seems too runny. I have had my agates running for about a month now and some of them are close to being ready to move to the next stage. Once I get to stage 2 I use 120/220 in a 5# vibe. Harbor Freight one that clearly states it is not to be use for rock polishing. I had to beef it up a bit because the first one I got essentially had the threads worn off it within 2 weeks of running. They exchanged it with no questions though. Anyhow, I put about 3 pounds of rock in to the vibe and about 2 pounds of non-abrasive ceramic media. I then use 2 tablespoons of the 120/220 and run for about a week. I then clean it out and run the same barrel and same stones with 2 tablespoons of 500 AO for about 3 days. After that I move to my polish vibe and run the 3 pounds of stones with about 1 pound of ceramic media and a tablespoon of 1200 AO for about 3 days. Seems like it works pretty good, but I am not getting the premium polish that you guys seem to get with your methods. Can you see anything that I could change that might help out a bit? I know it's hard to evaluate this based on you reading it, but I have always respected your advice and appreciate your help... Thanks---Steve
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 1, 2016 21:39:45 GMT -5
I have never worried about producing good slurry. I find that slurry thickness depends on the hardness of the rocks. Petoskey stones produce pudding thickness slurry in three days. Agates produce watery slurry.
I do all stages except for the first stage in a vibe. I have never in any stage in a vibe for a week. About five days is max and that's only for obsidian. Usually 2-3 days per stage. I use borax and you didn't mention it. Do you run a polish stage? That should come after your 1200 stage. Also, I get all my grits from the Rock Shed. They have good grits at good prices. I do buy my coarse grit from Kingsley North though.
Do you use a smaller barrel for 1200? Why do you reduce your ceramics at that point? I use the same ceramics throughout.
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taryn
starting to shine!
Member since March 2016
Posts: 38
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Post by taryn on May 2, 2016 6:07:10 GMT -5
In the Lot-O, I don't really worry if it has broken down. If you've used the proper amount of water and grit, it will do it's job in two days. You can run longer, but two days in each stage should work well. As for the proper amount of water, just fill in to the top with water and then drain as much as you can out. If it gets dry, add water very slowly until it starts moving again. You don't want any water setting on the bottom. For grit, I use 2 tablespoons of 120/220 or just plain 220 and then 1/2 TEAspoon of all grits and polish after that. I also add 1 tablespoon of borax to all stages except 220. To answer your original question, I'd do what zrock1 suggested. This is helpful, thanks. I wondered if this was something I should be thinking about but it looks like I don't necessarily. I may start feeling the grit before and after each 2 day stage just for my own curiosity. I read somewhere about borax in each stage of the vibe as well and I did that last time - figured it couldn't hurt. Even though I got spooked during the polish stage with how much the polish/borax combo was drying out each time I checked it (I had a few little pits I was paranoid about) and ended up only polishing for 1 day, I still got a pretty amazing polish that way.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on May 2, 2016 6:34:37 GMT -5
My experience with a rotary using coarse SiC 30/46/80 is that the SiC is broken down enough after a week that it barely shapes rocks. Time to add coarse SiC grit.
My experience is SiC 46 is broken down less than SiC 100 after 4-5 days in a well filled(3/4 full) 6 inch diameter rotary. And less than SiC 220 in 7-8 days. And less than SiC 400 in 12-14 days. Probably pushing SiC 600-800 after 3 weeks.
If you do an SiC 220 step in the rotary it should be broken down to SiC 400-500 in 10 days.
Rotary has no problem breaking down SiC because it is so brittle. SiC and rotary is very compatible.
I know if the grit is broken down simply by the amount of days run according to above schedules.
I only use aluminum oxide for 500 and smaller for finishing steps, vibe or rotary. I start with AO 500 in the vibe, and after 3 days you should have a pretty good polish(vibe, not rotary). Quite a bit longer for a rotary. By looking at the polish on the rocks is the best and only way to tell if the aluminum oxide is smoothing down. Lest you have a heck of a microscope. Be it rotary or vibe.
You have to have some sensitive fingers to feel grit smaller than AO 400 and SiC 800.
Hate to say, the only way to know if SiC is broken down past 400 grit is if the AO 500 step starts to polish. If you removed the stones with an SiC 220 finish it will take a long time for the AO 500 to impart a starting polish. Vibe or rotary. If you remove the stones from a rotary with an SiC 800 finish the AO 500 can start to polish in 24 hours in a vibe anyway.
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taryn
starting to shine!
Member since March 2016
Posts: 38
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Post by taryn on May 2, 2016 7:32:33 GMT -5
My experience with a rotary using coarse SiC 30/46/80 is that the SiC is broken down enough after a week that it barely shapes rocks. Time to add coarse SiC grit. My experience is SiC 46 is broken down less than SiC 100 after 4-5 days in a well filled(3/4 full) 6 inch diameter rotary. And less than SiC 220 in 7-8 days. And less than SiC 400 in 12-14 days. Probably pushing SiC 600-800 after 3 weeks. If you do an SiC 220 step in the rotary it should be broken down to SiC 400-500 in 10 days. Rotary has no problem breaking down SiC because it is so brittle. SiC and rotary is very compatible. I know if the grit is broken down simply by the amount of days run according to above schedules. I only use aluminum oxide for 500 and smaller for finishing steps, vibe or rotary. I start with AO 500 in the vibe, and after 3 days you should have a pretty good polish(vibe, not rotary). Quite a bit longer for a rotary. By looking at the polish on the rocks is the best and only way to tell if the aluminum oxide is smoothing down. Lest you have a heck of a microscope. Be it rotary or vibe. You have to have some sensitive fingers to feel grit smaller than AO 400 and SiC 800. Hate to say, the only way to know if SiC is broken down past 400 grit is if the AO 500 step starts to polish. If you removed the stones with an SiC 220 finish it will take a long time for the AO 500 to impart a starting polish. Vibe or rotary. If you remove the stones from a rotary with an SiC 800 finish the AO 500 can start to polish in 24 hours in a vibe anyway. This is really good info, thank you.
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wades
starting to spend too much on rocks
Gottfried Reiche (1667-1734)
Member since February 2006
Posts: 202
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Post by wades on May 2, 2016 11:20:58 GMT -5
It's more of a post-mortem kind of thing, but I look at what is left when I rinse the mud out of the barrel, letting the rinse settle a bit before I pour it off. Any grit up to 500 or so will settle out lots faster than the rock particles of the mud, and be visible in the barrel after you pour out most of the rinse.
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sschus87
starting to shine!
Member since November 2015
Posts: 49
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Post by sschus87 on May 2, 2016 11:28:28 GMT -5
I have never worried about producing good slurry. I find that slurry thickness depends on the hardness of the rocks. Petoskey stones produce pudding thickness slurry in three days. Agates produce watery slurry. I do all stages except for the first stage in a vibe. I have never in any stage in a vibe for a week. About five days is max and that's only for obsidian. Usually 2-3 days per stage. I use borax and you didn't mention it. Do you run a polish stage? That should come after your 1200 stage. Also, I get all my grits from the Rock Shed. They have good grits at good prices. I do buy my coarse grit from Kingsley North though. Do you use a smaller barrel for 1200? Why do you reduce your ceramics at that point? I use the same ceramics throughout. I do use borax between stages to wash everything off. What should I use as polish after 1200? I thought that was the polish stage. Maybe that's why I am not getting the shine and polish that I see from your photos... I have a vibe that I use for the 120/220 stage and then use the same vibe and barrel for my 500. Do you think that after 5 days the 120/220 is broken down enough that I am safe and don't have to worry about grit contamination when going to the 500? I do clean the bowl out very thoroughly and rinse the rocks equally well. I go to a smaller vibe for the 1200 and that is why I take some of the ceramic out. I bought some ceramic but I think the ones I am using are too large. I have seen the smaller ones, but I simply wasn't paying attention to the eBay auction when I bought them. I am pretty sure I should just pitch them and go with the smaller ones... Here's what I bought... www.ebay.com/itm/252064780855Thanks again for your input and help. I do appreciate it as always!! Thanks---Steve
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Post by Jugglerguy on May 2, 2016 15:58:46 GMT -5
I use borax between stages too, but I also add it in with the grit or polish. It thickens the slurry some and helps keep the grit stuck to the rocks. I'm using a Lot-O tumbler, so I don't know how other tumblers compare. I use a mix of large and small ceramics. Don't throw yours out, just get more to add to them. I'm not sure if removing ceramic from your polish stage is affecting anything, but I like to keep at least about 30% ceramics all the way through. I have heard that all grits and polishes are not equal. I buy my stuff from The Rock Shed because they have a very good reputation here. I haven't used other stuff so I can't comment on anything else. Here is a link to the page with grits and polishes. The polish is second from the bottom. Five days in 120/220 is long enough to break the grit down, but two days is enough too. You don't need to run them for five days. Hope that helps. Otherwise, keep asking questions.
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