ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 12:53:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the info . From what I have read , Mowhawkite should be worked with care because of the arsenic content . Yep, and after making something with it it should be sealed with something. I found this link suggesting searching pile #4 for Mohawkite and this link which shows a piece of Mohawkite pulled from the Ahmeek mine which shows it is not only found at one mohawk shaft, but other shafts at other nearby mines. This link takes you to an old mines register page that states that a third mohawkite vein was found between the #3 and #2 shafts, so # 3 probably has some as well. This page was written before shafts 4, 5, and 6 were even sunk. Late edit. I found this link stating that mohawkite can be found at Mohawk, Seneca, and Ahmeek mines.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 20:59:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the info . From what I have read , Mowhawkite should be worked with care because of the arsenic content . wigglinrocks Do you live near the U.P.? I'm a troll from the western part of the lower peninsula. They call people from below the Mackinac Bridge trolls up there.
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 24, 2016 21:27:46 GMT -5
Sorry it took so long to get back , snowplowing and in-law visiting today . We are about 100 miles , as the crow flies , straight south of Ashland , WI . The UP is only about 125 mi to Ironwood . We take a ton of day trips up there to pick the beaches . Started going up just looking at waterfalls and enjoying the big lake . Of course that meant hauling lots of rocks home . Then came our first tumbler and then another and more . Now have 3 rollers and 3 vibes , plus saws and grinders . Addiction ? Absolutely !!! I am definitely going to do more research on the different things to be found in the Keweenaw though . Its about 5 1/2 hrs for us . Love it up there , first time we went for 4 days and fell in love with the area and pouted all the way home . Been going there every chance we get .
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 21:56:11 GMT -5
Sorry it took so long to get back , snowplowing and in-law visiting today . We are about 100 miles , as the crow flies , straight south of Ashland , WI . The UP is only about 125 mi to Ironwood . We take a ton of day trips up there to pick the beaches . Started going up just looking at waterfalls and enjoying the big lake . Of course that meant hauling lots of rocks home . Then came our first tumbler and then another and more . Now have 3 rollers and 3 vibes , plus saws and grinders . Addiction ? Absolutely !!! I am definitely going to do more research on the different things to be found in the Keweenaw though . Its about 5 1/2 hrs for us . Love it up there , first time we went for 4 days and fell in love with the area and pouted all the way home . Been going there every chance we get . So you must live around Hawkins. Must be nice (except in winter.) I think toiv0 is somewhere up that way too. So, you have probably been to Little Girls Point then I would guess? Ever find anything there? Ever go up the north shore by Grand Marais Minnesota? Even though I live in Michigan, I am still 525 miles from Mohawk. A solid 9 hour drive one way and usually comes with a four or five day motel bill so we can only make like one trip a year. Last year we made two trips to the U.P. The first was to Keweenaw and the second was an agate hunting day trip to Muskellunge S.P. just east of Grand Marais Mi. (about 6 1/2 hours away from our house.) At Muskellunge there are biting horseflies as big as hummingbirds so it isn't the most pleasant place at times.
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 24, 2016 22:21:36 GMT -5
Pretty dang good estimate , we are about 15 miles from Hawkins . Yup , been to Littles Girls Point a whole bunch of times . Really nice beach , changes every time we go . Sometimes lots of rock , other times more sand . Always find enough stuff to bring home and make trip worthwhile . Well , just being up to the lake makes it worth it . We have found a lot of agates there but mostly pretty small . It gets picked awful hard , county park right there and easy access . We did go up the north shore one time chasing waterfalls . Just an overnight trip so not near long enough time to do any picking . Weren't really into rocks to good then . Think it was 6 or 7 years ago .
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 24, 2016 22:37:10 GMT -5
Pretty dang good estimate , we are about 15 miles from Hawkins . Yup , been to Littles Girls Point a whole bunch of times . Really nice beach , changes every time we go . Sometimes lots of rock , other times more sand . Always find enough stuff to bring home and make trip worthwhile . Well , just being up to the lake makes it worth it . We have found a lot of agates there but mostly pretty small . It gets picked awful hard , county park right there and easy access . We did go up the north shore one time chasing waterfalls . Just an overnight trip so not near long enough time to do any picking . Weren't really into rocks to good then . Think it was 6 or 7 years ago . Well, if you're ever up in the U.P. around July or August we'll look for you on the mine piles. We will be driving a bronzefire colored 2015 Ford Fusion. See ya there maybe sometime.
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 24, 2016 22:54:12 GMT -5
Sounds like a plan . We hope to get up there next year again . We usually go around July 4 because extra days off work . Or toward end of August to get blueberries . If we can go , I'll PM you . Forgot to mention , the big grocery store in Calumet has a good deli , sure beats eating out all the time . Saves a some money .
Merry Christmas to you and yours
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 27, 2016 17:01:08 GMT -5
Some more shared knowledge would be deeply appreciated by me on what tools are best to dig at the rock piles. I have a pick axe and I'm getting a rock pick. Thinking about maybe a chisel and a small sledge hammer. I was wondering if something like a heavy duty garden fork is out there (something with three prongs) that people use. I saw someone using one of those in a video. What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration? Is there any type of prybar that works best? Big wheeled rock cart? (hubby might build one of his own design.)
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 27, 2016 21:04:34 GMT -5
Having seen the piles and digging conditions is a real plus . I like a real big screwdriver , like 2 feet long or so , for prying out bigger rocks . Plenty strong and lighter than a crowbar . A chisel and 2 pound hammer for busting rocks , bigger hammer wears me out to quick anymore . For scratching around in the pile I made my own diggers . We had a flower bed digger thing that I modeled mine from , but improved for rock digging . I took a piece of leaf spring and cut one end into a long v shape , other end I welded three 4" long 1/2" rebar on to make a three prong digger . As for a shovel , there is to many big rocks for anything wider than about 2-3" wide . Maybe model something from a tree planting spade , only much narrower . Digging them piles can be a challenge but can be done with a little country boy engineering , ok, rednecking . Look in the gardening sections , then think of what you'll be digging and build or have someone build accordingly . Never used a rock cart , would be great at some of the piles but at some it wouldn't work all that great . I use heavy canvas type bags to carry rock out .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 0:28:13 GMT -5
Some more shared knowledge would be deeply appreciated by me on what tools are best to dig at the rock piles. I have a pick axe and I'm getting a rock pick. Thinking about maybe a chisel and a small sledge hammer. I was wondering if something like a heavy duty garden fork is out there (something with three prongs) that people use. I saw someone using one of those in a video. What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration? Is there any type of prybar that works best? Big wheeled rock cart? (hubby might build one of his own design.) Im sure I dont need to say, but your list doesnt mention a good shovel! Both normal garden size and half width have utiliy. Happy New Year!
|
|
|
Post by 1dave on Dec 28, 2016 7:12:17 GMT -5
For me, the walk around only works just after a heavy rain. Dig where you find some surface samples.
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 9:56:43 GMT -5
Some more shared knowledge would be deeply appreciated by me on what tools are best to dig at the rock piles. I have a pick axe and I'm getting a rock pick. Thinking about maybe a chisel and a small sledge hammer. I was wondering if something like a heavy duty garden fork is out there (something with three prongs) that people use. I saw someone using one of those in a video. What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration? Is there any type of prybar that works best? Big wheeled rock cart? (hubby might build one of his own design.) Im sure I dont need to say, but your list doesnt mention a good shovel! Both normal garden size and half width have utiliy. Happy New Year! I specifically asked what kind of shovel would work best quote from above quote of my own " What kind of shovel works best when there is little chance of shovel point penetration?" Musta had a long day....eh? The half width option would seem to be my choice based on what others have said regarding width of the blade. Is a regular half width garden shovel strong enough to deal with the rocks? Is there some special shovel made just for what we will be doing?
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 10:04:03 GMT -5
Never used a rock cart , would be great at some of the piles but at some it wouldn't work all that great . I use heavy canvas type bags to carry rock out . Yeah, we use this heavy duty bag we found as well but this time we have been thinking about a cart bag combo. Use the bag while we are on the pile then when it gets full, run it down to the cart at the base of the pile and dump the stuff in. We usually get a trunk full of stuff and it takes three or four trips from the pile to the car to get it all using just the bag. Maybe the cart will make this better. Hubby is thinking of making the cart hold the digging tools around the outside of it as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 10:47:44 GMT -5
ziggy yes. Going back to bed now. Still tired....
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 16:01:37 GMT -5
Which of the following three types of shovel would work best, in your humble opinion, for digging in the piles? First pic is called a drain spade (three of the same basic design.) Second pic shows two different styles of trenching shovels. I'm kind of partial to the drain spade design because of how the handle is not so angled in relation to the blade but I like the sharp point of the trenching shovels but it looks like they are less "foot pushing" friendly. Is there maybe something even better as far as shovels go?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 16:10:14 GMT -5
If it is mostly rocks in soil, then narrow is best.
If mostly soil, larger spoon to move more soil to find the stones....
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 28, 2016 17:19:55 GMT -5
If it is mostly rocks in soil, then narrow is best. If mostly soil, larger spoon to move more soil to find the stones.... It's mostly rocks on rocks with some crumbly rocky stuff substituting as soil. Below is a photo of the Cliff Mine poor rock piles. Next pic after that is the Wolverine piles. The piles up there are waste rock from sinking copper mine shafts. I guess the technique involves going through the rocks by hand and busting up ones that look like they have the right inclusions. There is usually a layer of coarse rock a couple of feet deep before you get to the crumbly layers that are sort of like soil. I believe lots of datolite nodules are found in this stuff. There is always an excellent chance of finding native copper and greenstone as well. The consistency of the pile is inconsistent. There might only be a little crumbly stuff before more coarse rock shows up. This is what we have to dig in. Not anything I would consider soil. The crumbly stuff can be seen pretty well in the lower left of the following pic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 22:16:21 GMT -5
tools for that?
gloves and a chipping hammer. a bucket for keepers. knee pads for kneeling.....
|
|
ziggy
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 483
|
Post by ziggy on Dec 29, 2016 6:27:06 GMT -5
tools for that? gloves and a chipping hammer. a bucket for keepers. knee pads for kneeling..... Got that stuff. I've already got two 3 lb. hand sledges used as crack hammers and a rock pick. We still need a non chisel rock pick. Those are the tools to use after (or if in a team like us, while) the digging is done. The way those piles are you need something once you get into the crumbly layers to dig the datolite nodules out. Doing everything by hand would be impossible. The stuff is almost as hard as concrete in places (some of the piles ave been sitting there for over 150 years, hence the need for things like pick axes.) The crumbly layers of small rubble consist of rock dust and finer sized rocks and there is no guarantee that there won't be a big unbroken rock in the middle of each shovel full. Upon examining some of the diggings on one of the piles at the Cliff Mine, I noticed that most of the digs only went down a foot or maybe two feet at best and stopped when they reached the layer where the rocks were no longer easy to move by hand. Obviously, they did not have the proper tools. Either that or they found enough and left. I doubt that it was the later reason. I've done the piles with just gloves, hammer and bucket. All I can find that way is Prehnite and Native Copper. Once you pick a few big rough rocks from the same spot you end up needing something else to get you through what lies beneath because that is where the stuff you want lies. Basically you can't do more than a surface search unless you have some pretty wicked digging tools. That don't cut it when looking for the right stuff in Keweenaw. Already been there, done that. That's why I was asking what other experienced pile pickers use to do their digging. These piles get a lot of hounding and all the good stuff easy to get is long gone. To make matters worse, there has been an archaeological research study on the Cliff Mine. Been going on for a while now. They're taking about making it some kind of historically sensitive area or monument or probably more likely, part of the Keweenaw National Historic Landmark District. I'm not sure how this will impact collecting on the rock piles there. It probably won't end well for the hobby though.
|
|
|
Post by wigglinrocks on Dec 29, 2016 15:10:47 GMT -5
I think a combination of tools is best for digging in those piles . As you said , digging is difficult at best . Know anyone who does any metal fabrication ? I took an old D - handle shovel like in your pic and made a metal detecting digging shovel . Look online , ebay has a lot , for Lesche shovel . That is basically what I made . I cut the blade down to 8" long and put a point on it , gradual point , then cut the handle off and welded a steel handle with D-handle on it . The shovel blade is 5 1/2 wide and 8 long , 28" overall length . Could use factory handle but mine was real wobbly and the blade was curled over from abuse . And when traveling , having shorter tools can be a plus . Also look around for a prospecting pick , they make several different sizes . Kingsley has a few but there are a lot of varieties out there .
Love the mine pile pics , gotta get back there .
|
|