Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 16:17:34 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 16:25:27 GMT -5
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Post by Garage Rocker on Feb 1, 2017 16:32:01 GMT -5
My Italian is a little rusty, but I believe that says something like 'I love your Glamour Shot'. Yes @shotgunner?
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Feb 1, 2017 16:38:55 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 16:48:27 GMT -5
My Italian is a little rusty, but I believe that says something like 'I love your Glamour Shot'. Yes @shotgunner? Yes... Sorta. Http://www.translate.google.com is your friend.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,621
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 1, 2017 18:38:47 GMT -5
QuailRiver There is the possibility that he is truly ignorant, in which case he has come to the right place to learn. You're doing a great job with that so far. You're a very nice person for doing so but I think you're giving Roberto too much benefit of the doubt. IMO in Roberto's resistance to being corrected, and his refusal to acknowledge the reality of 970,000 Google search results for "Chinese Writing Stone" as being real, he has already shown that he is not here to learn. Personally I believe that he only signed up hoping to find some suckers to sell to. In several of his listing Roberto is, wittingly or not, using a very old trick that dubious sellers have used for ages. One I've seen several auctioneers use many times - That is dropping of the name of something with real value in the sales pitch of a lesser valued item in order to plant a seed of value in the minds of less-knowledgeable potential buyers without actually making the claim of it being the more valued. And this way they can claim plausible deniability by feigning ignorance. (i.e. Turquoise?, Malachite?, Variscite?) An example of this type of tactic was as an auctioneer, just prior to the start of a bidding call for a piece of low-end frosted art glass, asking his floor help "Is that Lalique Glass?" knowing full well that it isn't, and knowing full well that the floor help wouldn't know either. But by asking that question he plants that seed of potential value in the mind of the more gullible of the non-expert buyers. And makes them willing to pay more because an illusion of potential value has been created. And in this way the auctioneer hasn't made himself legally liable for his intentional deceit because he never actually claimed that it was Lalique Glass. I've seen auctioneers use variations of this tactic many times and I'm sure any other frequent auction goers here probably have too. And in addition to Roberto dropping terms of value that are unrelated to what he is selling, in some of his listings he also includes photos in the item's picture gallery of extremely valuable antique sculptures that have no significant connection to what he is selling other than that it may have been carved from a similar or same type of stone as the river rock he is selling. Of course the fact that the river rock he is selling is of a similar or same type stone as the pictured antique sculpture was made doesn't really enhance the monetary value of his river rock any more than Georgia road gravel would be considered more valuable because it may be from the same granite formation as the Stone Mountain granite sculptures are sculpted from. But by picturing these valuable antique sculptures along side Roberto's similar material river rocks, it generates a false air of antiquity and value. This reminds me of tactic used by one auction house I went to a couple of times years ago that would buy cheap modern reproduction Depression Glass and reproduction Majolica pottery from a company called AA Imports. They would pull the import sticker off the bottoms and display it among the authentic antique furniture. They wouldn't call it as either authentic or reproduction when they sold it but the association with the genuine antique furniture it was displayed on seemed to always be enough to make it bring near to, or full book value of what genuine Depression Glass and Majolica of the same pattern and pieces where valued at in the Collectors Books series price guides of the time. I remember having a heated exchange with one of the owners of that auction house after calling them out on their deception too. ...They took me off their mailing list. LOL! So while I am willing to accept that Roberto is fairly ignorant of minerals, I suspect that he knows exactly what he is doing tactically in misrepresenting his eBay listings. The long-time members here know that I rarely get involved in controversial topics with other members. This is only the second time I remember doing so. But I just found the eBay listings Roberto was plugging here immediately after he joined to be too blatantly and obnoxiously misleading to give him a pass. Partly because of how annoying I find the occasional shyster who joins this site for the sole purpose of trying to milk the members, but also as because as an eBay seller myself I am sick and tired of dishonest sellers giving all of us a bad name. P.S. I would like to let all of the other newer members know that nothing I posted in this thread was intended to be offense to you or to discourage you from participating on the RTH board. We were all beginners once and life is a learning process. I started collecting rocks soon after I learned to walk and started cutting and polishing stones 45 years ago, have always been a avid reader and researcher and yet after 50 years of collecting I still almost daily learn something that is new to me about rocks, gems and lapidary. Often from the other members of this site. So please don't interpret this thread in any way that would make you feel that you are being demeaned or are unwelcomed. By far, most of the members of this site are more than happy to help those who are sincere in their motives and/or are just getting started in the hobby!
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 1, 2017 18:48:49 GMT -5
QuailRiver There is the possibility that he is truly ignorant, in which case he has come to the right place to learn. You're doing a great job with that so far. You're a very nice person for doing so but I think you're giving Roberto too much benefit of the doubt. IMO in Roberto's resistance to being corrected, and his refusal to acknowledge the reality of 970,000 Google search results for "Chinese Writing Stone" as being real, he has already shown that he is not here to learn. Personally I believe that he only signed up hoping to find some suckers to sell to. In several of his listing Roberto is, wittingly or not, using a very old trick that dubious sellers have used for ages. One I've seen several auctioneers use many times - That is dropping of the name of something with real value in the sales pitch of a lesser valued item in order to plant a seed of value in the minds of less-knowledgeable potential buyers without actually making the claim of it being the more valued. And this way they can claim plausible deniability by feigning ignorance. (i.e. Turquoise?, Malachite?, Variscite?) An example of this type of tactic was as an auctioneer, just prior to the start of a bidding call for a piece of low-end frosted art glass, asking his floor help "Is that Lalique Glass?" knowing full well that it isn't, and knowing full well that the floor help wouldn't know either. But by asking that question he plants that seed of potential value in the mind of the more gullible of the non-expert buyers. And makes them willing to pay more because an illusion of potential value has been created. And in this way the auctioneer hasn't made himself legally liable for his intentional deceit because he never actually claimed that it was Lalique Glass. I've seen auctioneers use variations of this tactic many times and I'm sure any other frequent auction goers here probably have too. And in addition to Roberto dropping terms of value that are unrelated to what he is selling, in some of his listings he also includes photos in the item's picture gallery of extremely valuable antique sculptures that have no significant connection to what he is selling other than that it may have been carved from a similar or same type of stone as the river rock he is selling. Of course the fact that the river rock he is selling is of a similar or same type stone as the pictured antique sculpture was made doesn't really enhance the monetary value of his river rock any more than Georgia road gravel would be considered more valuable because it may be from the same granite formation as the Stone Mountain granite sculptures are sculpted from. But by picturing these valuable antique sculptures along side Roberto's similar material river rocks, it generates a false air of antiquity and value. This reminds me of tactic used by one auction house I went to a couple of times years ago that would buy cheap modern reproduction Depression Glass and reproduction Majolica pottery from a company called AA Imports. They would pull the import sticker off the bottoms and display it among the authentic antique furniture. They wouldn't call it as either authentic or reproduction when they sold it but the association with the genuine antique furniture it was displayed on seemed to always be enough to make it bring near to, or full book value of what genuine Depression Glass and Majolica of the same pattern and pieces where valued at in the Collectors Books series price guides of the time. I remember having a heated exchange with one of the owners of that auction house after calling them out on their deception too. ...They took me off their mailing list. LOL! So while I am willing to accept that Roberto is fairly ignorant of minerals, I suspect that he knows exactly what he is doing tactically in misrepresenting his eBay listings. The long-time members here know that I rarely get involved in controversial topics with other members. This is only the second time I remember doing so. But I just found the eBay listings Roberto was plugging here immediately after he joined to be too blatantly and obnoxiously misleading to give him a pass. Partly because of how annoying I find the occasional shyster who joins this site for the sole purpose of trying to milk the members, but also as because as an eBay seller myself I am sick and tired of dishonest sellers giving all of us a bad name. P.S. I would like to let all of the other newer members know that nothing I posted in this thread was intended to be offense to you or to discourage you from participating on the RTH board. We were all beginners once and life is a learning process. I started collecting rocks soon after I learned to walk and started cutting and polishing stones 45 years ago, have always been a avid reader and researcher and yet after 50 years of collecting I still almost daily learn something that is new to me about rocks, gems and lapidary. Often from the other members of this site. So please don't interpret this thread in any way that would make you feel that you are being demeaned or are unwelcomed. By far, most of the members of this site are more than happy to help those who are sincere in their motives and/or are just getting started in the hobby! I wholeheartedly agree with you. I was only slightly giving him the benefit of the doubt due to the language issue. Thank you for being a great watch dog. I mean that in the best way.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 19:08:26 GMT -5
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Post by melhill1659 on Feb 1, 2017 19:13:15 GMT -5
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Post by melhill1659 on Feb 1, 2017 19:27:27 GMT -5
Is there a way to report him to eBay?
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Post by MrP on Feb 1, 2017 19:42:53 GMT -5
You're a very nice person for doing so but I think you're giving Roberto too much benefit of the doubt. IMO in Roberto's resistance to being corrected, and his refusal to acknowledge the reality of 970,000 Google search results for "Chinese Writing Stone" as being real, he has already shown that he is not here to learn. Personally I believe that he only signed up hoping to find some suckers to sell to. In several of his listing Roberto is, wittingly or not, using a very old trick that dubious sellers have used for ages. One I've seen several auctioneers use many times - That is dropping of the name of something with real value in the sales pitch of a lesser valued item in order to plant a seed of value in the minds of less-knowledgeable potential buyers without actually making the claim of it being the more valued. And this way they can claim plausible deniability by feigning ignorance. (i.e. Turquoise?, Malachite?, Variscite?) An example of this type of tactic was as an auctioneer, just prior to the start of a bidding call for a piece of low-end frosted art glass, asking his floor help "Is that Lalique Glass?" knowing full well that it isn't, and knowing full well that the floor help wouldn't know either. But by asking that question he plants that seed of potential value in the mind of the more gullible of the non-expert buyers. And makes them willing to pay more because an illusion of potential value has been created. And in this way the auctioneer hasn't made himself legally liable for his intentional deceit because he never actually claimed that it was Lalique Glass. I've seen auctioneers use variations of this tactic many times and I'm sure any other frequent auction goers here probably have too. And in addition to Roberto dropping terms of value that are unrelated to what he is selling, in some of his listings he also includes photos in the item's picture gallery of extremely valuable antique sculptures that have no significant connection to what he is selling other than that it may have been carved from a similar or same type of stone as the river rock he is selling. Of course the fact that the river rock he is selling is of a similar or same type stone as the pictured antique sculpture was made doesn't really enhance the monetary value of his river rock any more than Georgia road gravel would be considered more valuable because it may be from the same granite formation as the Stone Mountain granite sculptures are sculpted from. But by picturing these valuable antique sculptures along side Roberto's similar material river rocks, it generates a false air of antiquity and value. This reminds me of tactic used by one auction house I went to a couple of times years ago that would buy cheap modern reproduction Depression Glass and reproduction Majolica pottery from a company called AA Imports. They would pull the import sticker off the bottoms and display it among the authentic antique furniture. They wouldn't call it as either authentic or reproduction when they sold it but the association with the genuine antique furniture it was displayed on seemed to always be enough to make it bring near to, or full book value of what genuine Depression Glass and Majolica of the same pattern and pieces where valued at in the Collectors Books series price guides of the time. I remember having a heated exchange with one of the owners of that auction house after calling them out on their deception too. ...They took me off their mailing list. LOL! So while I am willing to accept that Roberto is fairly ignorant of minerals, I suspect that he knows exactly what he is doing tactically in misrepresenting his eBay listings. The long-time members here know that I rarely get involved in controversial topics with other members. This is only the second time I remember doing so. But I just found the eBay listings Roberto was plugging here immediately after he joined to be too blatantly and obnoxiously misleading to give him a pass. Partly because of how annoying I find the occasional shyster who joins this site for the sole purpose of trying to milk the members, but also as because as an eBay seller myself I am sick and tired of dishonest sellers giving all of us a bad name. P.S. I would like to let all of the other newer members know that nothing I posted in this thread was intended to be offense to you or to discourage you from participating on the RTH board. We were all beginners once and life is a learning process. I started collecting rocks soon after I learned to walk and started cutting and polishing stones 45 years ago, have always been a avid reader and researcher and yet after 50 years of collecting I still almost daily learn something that is new to me about rocks, gems and lapidary. Often from the other members of this site. So please don't interpret this thread in any way that would make you feel that you are being demeaned or are unwelcomed. By far, most of the members of this site are more than happy to help those who are sincere in their motives and/or are just getting started in the hobby! I wholeheartedly agree with you. I was only slightly giving him the benefit of the doubt due to the language issue. Thank you for being a great watch dog. I mean that in the best way. rockjunquie QuailRiver Speaking of language issue, he claims he inglish so not good, but he sure seems to do a very good job at times. When I started reading his replay I thought at times he almost had to work at making it bad. QuailRiver thanks for finding the ebay listings and pointing this out. Just another reason we need this forum..........................................MrP
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,621
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 1, 2017 19:57:33 GMT -5
Is there a way to report him to eBay? Yes eBay has an automated system to report offenders. But unfortunately it seems that the only times eBay takes action is if there is a dispute over funds, something illegal is being sold (like eagle feathers, etc.) or if the offender is violating copyright laws and eBay doesn't want to risk a legal hassle. Larry C.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,621
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Post by QuailRiver on Feb 1, 2017 20:03:43 GMT -5
[/quote] rockjunquie QuailRiver Speaking of language issue, he claims he inglish so not good, but he sure seems to do a very good job at times. When I started reading his replay I thought at times he almost had to work at making it bad. QuailRiver thanks for finding the ebay listings and pointing this out. Just another reason we need this forum..........................................MrP [/quote] I kind of wondered about that language thing too. As for the eBay links Roberto himself had originally posted links to his eBay page in two or three of his original posts but edited the links out yesterday afternoon after I called him out. Larry C.
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 1, 2017 20:05:55 GMT -5
Well, well, well- THAT seems like an admission of guilt.
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Post by accidentalrockhound on Feb 2, 2017 0:12:43 GMT -5
What does the fox say!
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robertino123
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2017
Posts: 22
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Post by robertino123 on Feb 2, 2017 5:10:53 GMT -5
Good morning everyone, and thank you for your answers, everyone has the right to say their opinion and I do not know your language, and often use google translator I'm not going to sell to you with dishonesty or fraud, I appreciate your advice, and if I was wrong to write (Damele) thank you, and I corrected IMMEDIATELY all ads, many people have told me I could be truly turquoise, variscite, etc. (so I put the question marks, and gho written to refer to experts before you buy) I scammer calls you (no problem) but I have no intention of stealing or cheating, the objects are there and are seen by all experts, so they know to assess, who is not an expert and not a chicken, and then never buy those figures , PerMe are very beautiful pieces, and there is behind it hard to find in the streams, I spend hours and hours in the streams, and I come always home laden like a mule, getting heavy bags. for the porphyry, I suggest you write on google lapis lacedaemonius or antique green porphyry etc., the greatest writer of the story, PLINIO OLD - Papinius sanction SIDONIO APOLLINARE AND MARTIAL, Strabo (SCHOLARS ROMANO) AND MANY ANCIENT GREEKS They Created The most beautiful objects, statues, ornaments, columns, you can find the green porphyry and red porphyry, in the tombs of the most famous emperors of history, you can find the porphyry, the home of the Pope, in all ancient Roman villas etc. you will never find written Chinese stone or the like, then if you call this stone Chinese writing, and very nice, but not so, we give credit to those who suffered in antiquity, a sweaty, fought, were slaves etc., have died from this rock, we give the right name, the Chinese have done wonderful things too, but not as porphyry. in over the pebbles Chinese calls are always very small and processed, from the mine plates, my stones are rough rough, and are very rare in Italy, if you have a link of really great big stones, healthy happy to see and maybe change your mind, I apologize again to everyone for having caused this mess, was not my intention. tks to roberto casanova.
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robertino123
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2017
Posts: 22
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Post by robertino123 on Feb 2, 2017 5:25:35 GMT -5
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Feb 2, 2017 11:08:31 GMT -5
Hi Robertino
I, for one, am pleased to see your reply. With good documentation such as you have, it is all the more extra-ordinary that your adverts mislead as wildly as they do. If you are truly sourcing this material, I believe you would be much better served by using the catalogue data to emphasise the truth of it, especially the rarity, quoted in multiple categories in the Oxford.
Have away with the confusion and provide clarity.
I would be interested in how you classify the stones you find to those in the documents?
By the way I'm also familiar with the use of words in the title such as 'Lapis' where the item clearly isn't lapis lazuli just so the item is flagged up in nore user's searches. I don't really have a problem with that per se, but your adverts do /have misled. I'd like to see those rectified and no more of it in future.
I hope you can see your way past this uneasy entry and continue to be part of the forum.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 18:17:52 GMT -5
What all this talk of the royals having this stones in their tombs means to me is this.
The stone is common and easily cut. And of the common and easily cut stones in the area, these are the ones they chose for beauty.
As for its value today? The fact emperors liked it means nothing to our customers today. Well, almost nothing,
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 18:21:54 GMT -5
The italina use of the word "serpentine" misleading. In your link, as this is being used to describe an igneous stone. In the description it is called adesite porphyry with phnocrysts of pagioclase. That is andesite with feldspar crystals. Clearly not "serpnine" as any geologist would drine.
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