wizzykin
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2017
Posts: 22
|
Post by wizzykin on Mar 23, 2017 13:54:33 GMT -5
Curious if anyone has suggestions on taking a larger rock (I ordered 5 lbs of rock and got 3 rocks - I expected 5 lbs of smaller tumbling rocks) and breaking it up into smaller pieces to tumble? I'm guessing to take something metal and sharpish (like a chisel) and just pounding away at it; but has anyone had to break up a rock and have a suggestion to make it as easy as possible?
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 23, 2017 14:03:57 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2017 14:29:45 GMT -5
Funny (coincidentally) you're asking about this. I've spent the last day or two looking at old threads related to this...and saws. I have a fair amount of jasper that I'd like to reduce in size, so I started looking around a bit.
My concern is waste and the fact that a generalized pounding with a hammer will not only pulverize pieces that are too small in the end; it may also create fractures in remaining pieces I keep which may not come to light until the tumbling starts. While a simplistic method, I think I've come to rule this out.
Next option is a chisel. While there is still some hammering involved, it is more precise, with a reduced chance of waste. This may be the route I try initially, just to check results. I don't plan on simply pounding away with the hammer and chisel - I'll meter the blows a bit to score the rock (hopefully) and then try to break it.
From what I've seen here, the above can be modified by using a saw to score the rock. Then, insert said chisel into the line and go from there.
Of course, having a saw makes it easier to reduce your rock by simply cutting it. The main limiting factor is if you even have access to one. Since you're asking about material reduction, you're probably like me and don't have one.
The reduction of material is what has caused me to look at saws. Problem for me is that there are lots of options, and I haven't decided which way to go yet. I'm somewhat leaning toward a tile saw, but having no saw experience, I'm not sure yet. Hopefully I'll be joining a club soon that has a shop. Perhaps I'll be able to get some hands-on education.
Disclaimer: Take what I wrote with a grain of salt, as I haven't gone into rock breaking mode yet. Some of the above is simply what I've noted in my research. Of course, I'll be monitoring here to see what pops up.
Dave
|
|
ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
|
Post by ChicagoDave on Mar 23, 2017 15:07:35 GMT -5
I bust stuff up with a hammer and big chisel. I've done this with obsidian (carefully), jasper and agates and never really had an issue. There might be some "waste", but I use those as smalls in my barrels. I think the hammered rocks look a little more natural than the tile cut ones which have a bunch of flat faces. I have a tile saw and hate using the thing. No need to overthink this!
|
|
inbtb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2016
Posts: 351
|
Post by inbtb on Mar 23, 2017 15:46:24 GMT -5
You could use a tile saw and cut 1 to 2 inch slabs and break those. Should not take as much hammering as a whole 5 pound rock. Only problem is tile saw leads to a bigger saw later. But not that much later.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2017 16:07:33 GMT -5
I bust stuff up with a hammer and big chisel. I've done this with obsidian (carefully), jasper and agates and never really had an issue. There might be some "waste", but I use those as smalls in my barrels. I think the hammered rocks look a little more natural than the tile cut ones which have a bunch of flat faces. I have a tile saw and hate using the thing. No need to overthink this! Unfortunately, I have to overthink it a bit, as I have arthritis in my hands and have a hard time holding onto a heavy hammer for any length of time. On the hammer, I'll have to build up the grip as I can't make a closed fist. That said, I was just on the Home Depot site to check inventory at our local store. It sells chisels with hand protectors on them which will help me hold onto them. That said, should I get a pointed chisel, a bladed chisel, or both? Thanks and regards. Dave
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 23, 2017 16:15:36 GMT -5
I bust stuff up with a hammer and big chisel. I've done this with obsidian (carefully), jasper and agates and never really had an issue. There might be some "waste", but I use those as smalls in my barrels. I think the hammered rocks look a little more natural than the tile cut ones which have a bunch of flat faces. I have a tile saw and hate using the thing. No need to overthink this! Unfortunately, I have to overthink it a bit, as I have arthritis in my hands and have a hard time holding onto a heavy hammer for any length of time. On the hammer, I'll have to build up the grip as I can't make a closed fist. That said, I was just on the Home Depot site to check inventory at our local store. It sells chisels with hand protectors on them which will help me hold onto them. That said, should I get a pointed chisel, a bladed chisel, or both? Thanks and regards. Dave I do not use chisels much for busting my tumbling rough but I do have those with hand guards and recommend them.
|
|
Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,422
|
Post by Wooferhound on Mar 23, 2017 16:21:02 GMT -5
A big Chisel and a big Hammer. My biggest hammer is the backside of an Axe. I have even thought about buying a big axe just to breakup rocks and use the sharp end without the chisel. Aim for the cracks and faults. My Chisel has a wide point but I think a round point chisel may work better. Here is the leftovers from breaking up 12 pounds of Quartz.
|
|
|
Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 23, 2017 16:26:06 GMT -5
The smaller 2-3 pound sledge in my photo has a chisel type edge on one side that works great for hitting on fracture lines. I never use any sledge with a long handle for tumbling rough because there is no control over it. A small handle and short stroke blows allow some finesse in the hit. The larger sledge in the photo is a sawed off 8 pounder.
Chuck
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 16:30:31 GMT -5
I've also used chisels and hammers. One thing I've found useful is to place the rock along the point of a length of angle iron (angle up, and oriented in the direction you want it to crack), supporting it on either side with dirt or something soft like rolled up towels. Then whack it using a wide chisel (yes with the hand protectors). The crack will try to split along the line established by the chisel and angle iron. There are also hydraulic rock splitters that look sort of like a guillotine and do a good job with less waste, but I forget who makes them.
If the rock is really large, then you can (often) get a more controlled split using feathers and wedges (available from masonry supply shops). Doesn't take a lot of effort, and less small shard leftovers.
Finally, good agate, jasper and other stones are really sharp. Yes, protect your eyes, but also wear long sleeves, long jeans, good shoes, leather gloves and I personally think a full-face protector is a good idea (after spending hundreds of $ getting a shard dug out of my face that resulted in some nerve damage).
|
|
|
Post by Jugglerguy on Mar 23, 2017 16:36:53 GMT -5
I'm really not that good at breaking rocks. They're pretty hard to break with a 3lb. hammer and chisel. I break a lot of rocks that have fractures in them because I don't like fractures in my finished rocks. Chuck mentioned my tupperware rock cover. I drilled a hole slightly larger than the diameter of my chisel in the bottom of a sandwich sized tupperware container. I put the container upside down over the rock, and insert the chisel into the hole. When the rock breaks, the Tupperware contains all the rock shrapnel.
|
|
ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
|
Post by ChicagoDave on Mar 23, 2017 16:58:28 GMT -5
Here's my setup. Cardboard box with a thick piece of hard maple in the bottom.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2017 19:28:49 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 15:03:05 GMT -5
YouTube has several of the guillotine-type stone splitters, both manufactured and home-made. Here is a video of one, but there are some simpler examples there, too (some that use just a regular foot-pump hydraulic jack). The one I'm recalling being sold to rockhounds could take larger diameter and irregular rocks than what most of the mason-type guillotines do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 15:41:20 GMT -5
aDavejeannie is out of town April 1,2. Plan a run down here and I'll cut it up for ya. We can hang out grill a burger or a steak and cut up your stuff.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Mar 24, 2017 15:54:29 GMT -5
aDave jeannie is out of town April 1,2. Plan a run down here and I'll cut it up for ya. We can hang out grill a burger or a steak and cut up your stuff. Very kind, Scott, thanks. Saturday might work for me. I'll shoot you a PM. Dave
|
|
Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,422
|
Post by Wooferhound on Mar 25, 2017 9:23:24 GMT -5
I looked at my chisel today and the nice 45 degree point was totally gone after breaking up less than 16 pounds of quartz. Should I spend more than $4 on a chisel ?
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,666
|
Post by Fossilman on Mar 25, 2017 10:23:44 GMT -5
Well it did the job and for the price of the tool,it looks like it did what it was suppose to do.....Just bevel another edge to it and carry on.....Thumbs up
|
|
alecogeorgia
off to a rocking start
Antithesis of tumbling - Friction retards progress
Member since January 2016
Posts: 16
|
Post by alecogeorgia on Apr 4, 2017 22:38:36 GMT -5
I used cheapest tile saw with diamond disk ($4-8). Does the work in absolute controlled fashion.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
|
Post by jamesp on Apr 5, 2017 3:06:20 GMT -5
Glassy rock can be easy to break. Small hammer and a padded anvil. Grainy rock can be a challenge to avoid lots of fractures. Best sawn.
Forgive the draw
|
|