jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 11:33:06 GMT -5
No way you got rocks packed in wet red clay rockpickerforever. Who would do such a thing ? Ouch, that wet t-shirt shot. Sobering
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Post by wigglinrocks on May 4, 2017 11:35:24 GMT -5
Takes a massive rope just to make the drop wigglinrocks . And a 100 foot prelude drop to get to this one. Hard to imagine unless you've been there , which I haven't . Did some helicopter rappelling but that was only 90 or 100 feet .
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Post by fantastic5 on May 4, 2017 11:49:45 GMT -5
Continuing the thread hijack... jamesp my cliff cave rescue team often jokes about the difference between cavers and spelunkers. Somewhere I have a tee shirt that states "Cavers rescue spelunkers". The handheld 9V flashlights in the picture and lack of helmets definitely points to spelunkers. This is what a 'caver' looks like when preparing to tackle a vertical drop. Neverskink Cave, Al one of the prettiest that I have ever bounced. Me a little over a decade ago. Very humid, lots of Lady Slippers and ferns growing on the ledges in the top 30 or 40'. Waterfall runs into the pit from the far side. This is how it looked that morning when we arrived to rig the ropes, sun was hitting the spray/mist just perfect.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 11:56:32 GMT -5
Takes a massive rope just to make the drop wigglinrocks . And a 100 foot prelude drop to get to this one. Hard to imagine unless you've been there , which I haven't . Did some helicopter rappelling but that was only 90 or 100 feet . My crazy neighbor was involved in a group of crazy extreme climbing guys. In high school. We were the young ones. Scared of step ladders these days. I had a neighbor that owned Cliffhangers where I live now. They were high-rise window cleaners. All day on a rope. cliffhangerinc.com
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Post by fantastic5 on May 4, 2017 12:09:16 GMT -5
I never did do the big drop in Ellison. Biggest issue is the weight of the rope acts like a crazy belay on your rappelling rack. So you start out with as few bars as you dare and are forcing the rope through just to move. But as you go down the weight of the rope becomes less and you start to speed up. If you don't plan correctly you can get too fast, which can end in a splat.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 12:09:52 GMT -5
Continuing the thread hijack... jamesp my cliff cave rescue team often jokes about the difference between cavers and spelunkers. Somewhere I have a tee shirt that states "Cavers rescue spelunkers". The handheld 9V flashlights in the picture and lack of helmets definitely points to spelunkers. This is what a 'caver' looks like when preparing to tackle a vertical drop. Neverskink Cave, Al one of the prettiest that I have ever bounced. Me a little over a decade ago. Very humid, lots of Lady Slippers and ferns growing on the ledges in the top 30 or 40'. Waterfall runs into the pit from the far side. This is how it looked that morning when we arrived to rig the ropes, sun was hitting the spray/mist just perfect. Lol, agreed. 6 volters and newbies. We took the easy routes. Ellison has the habitat for all levels. Look at you go lady. Lookin fit. Impressive spot and well rigged. This is no surprise, right up your alley. Those caves are awe inspiring spots on earth. The thick air and foliage are breath taking.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 12:16:15 GMT -5
I never did do the big drop in Ellison. Biggest issue is the weight of the rope acts like a crazy belay on your rappelling rack. So you start out with as few bars as you dare and are forcing the rope through just to move. But as you go down the weight of the rope becomes less and you start to speed up. If you don't plan correctly you can get too fast, which can end in a splat. I never did it either. I remember doing Case and Johnson's Crook. They were scary. We did some 400 footers off of bluffs. Nothing like a cave though. Caves are spooky.
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Post by fantastic5 on May 4, 2017 12:35:13 GMT -5
Never thought of caves as spooky. Quite the opposite. Peaceful. Most amazing cave I've ever done was Glory Hole is S Georgia, actually, just west of the Withlacoochee. Hall of angels is a huge room with 3-6 foot pure white angel wings. And in the most out of the way cubby the 'Granny Star' named in honor of the old woman who lived her whole life on the farm and first dug open the cave. Starred end is about the size of an orange Old pools with crazy formations
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Post by wigglinrocks on May 4, 2017 13:13:10 GMT -5
My only caving experience was a copper mine in the UP . That was kinda cool but didn't have all that fancy stuff growing in it .
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Post by fantastic5 on May 4, 2017 13:46:07 GMT -5
My only caving experience was a copper mine in the UP . That was kinda cool but didn't have all that fancy stuff growing in it . My first cave experience was in a UP copper mine on vacation with my parents. We were camping in the Porkies and if I remember correctly the mine was maybe SW of that??? That experience is what got me interested in caving in the first place. I spent a decade or more doing commercial cave tours before I joined a local grotto here in Tennessee and started really caving on a regular basis. Edited to add: A quick google search jogged my memory. It was SE almost back down to Lake Michigan. Iron Mountain
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 4, 2017 16:25:57 GMT -5
Darn fantastic5, some fine calcite ? crystals there. Never seen any so fine. Surprised they have not been poached. Ever notice the best and most unmolested formations are either way back in the cave or a rope climb away ? Never been in a below-the-fall line cave other than the entrance to a spring. The most spooky thing about some of those caves are the ones that have a slide followed by a drop. I believe it was Johnson Crook. It has a small 4 foot entrance on a 45 degree angle. And about 15 feet long only to drop ~50 feet at the end of the slide. A dark inviting hole, however if a poor soul enters he will be in for an unpreventable slide to a 50 foot fall. Goose bumps thinking about it. They are so peaceful. Quiet like no quiet. This looks like a slide to a fall:
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Post by wigglinrocks on May 4, 2017 17:37:45 GMT -5
My only caving experience was a copper mine in the UP . That was kinda cool but didn't have all that fancy stuff growing in it . My first cave experience was in a UP copper mine on vacation with my parents. We were camping in the Porkies and if I remember correctly the mine was maybe SW of that??? That experience is what got me interested in caving in the first place. I spent a decade or more doing commercial cave tours before I joined a local grotto here in Tennessee and started really caving on a regular basis. Edited to add: A quick google search jogged my memory. It was SE almost back down to Lake Michigan. Iron MountainOur copper mine visit was the Delaware mine up towards Copper Harbor . About 90 degrees that day and the people recommended a light jacket down in the mine . Glad we had them , kinda thermal shock when we came up though .
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Post by fantastic5 on May 4, 2017 20:40:11 GMT -5
Darn fantastic5 , some fine calcite ? crystals there. Never seen any so fine. Surprised they have not been poached. Ever notice the best and most unmolested formations are either way back in the cave or a rope climb away ? Never been in a below-the-fall line cave other than the entrance to a spring. The most spooky thing about some of those caves are the ones that have a slide followed by a drop. I believe it was Johnson Crook. It has a small 4 foot entrance on a 45 degree angle. And about 15 feet long only to drop ~50 feet at the end of the slide. A dark inviting hole, however if a poor soul enters he will be in for an unpreventable slide to a 50 foot fall. Goose bumps thinking about it. They are so peaceful. Quiet like no quiet. This looks like a slide to a fall: Neversink has a double lip. The initial drop is about 8', a straight forward climb down. Then the whole edge slopes towards the pit for about 15'. The drop is 160 feet, give or take. We always rig two ropes. A short one for people to use as they approach the edge and the other that goes all the way to the bottom. My group was back a few weeks after this picture was taken. We had become comfortable with the pit and my buddy dropped his backpack gently down the first 8' drop. It laid there for a moment, then in slow motion rolled once, twice, picked up speed and went over the edge. Sounded like thunder the way it echoed when it hit the bottom. We all knew he had his brand new DSLR camera in the bag. It was my turn to rig the pit, which meant I was the first on rope. When I got to the backpack it looked fine. Opened it up and the pelican box that contained the camera was in perfect shape. But when I opened the box, every screw on the camera was backed out about 1/4 inch. The camera never worked again after that. But the thing that messed with me the most was his convenience store sleeve of peanuts. The impact turned it into creamy peanut butter. Couldn't believe it. On my climb back out, it was the first time the thoughts of falling kept coming to my mind. Was imagining what the fall would do to a humans insides. This really messed with me. Never been 100% comfortable on rope since.
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Post by fantastic5 on May 4, 2017 21:15:42 GMT -5
Our copper mine visit was the Delaware mine up towards Copper Harbor . About 90 degrees that day and the people recommended a light jacket down in the mine . Glad we had them , kinda thermal shock when we came up though . [/quote] Caves are the average temperature of the area they are located. Here in Tennessee our average cave temp is 58 degrees. In the UP it is more like 48 degrees. Can be a big shock changing temperatures that quickly.
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grizman
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since July 2011
Posts: 878
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Post by grizman on May 4, 2017 21:20:41 GMT -5
Ahhh, not the way I'd be found spending my free time. Congrats to all you folks that have OR had the nerve to venture into that kind of an adventure! In college some smokejumper fraternity brothers talked me into do a static line jump. Once was one time more than enough of that for me! Some of you good folks have it...some of us don't.
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Post by wigglinrocks on May 4, 2017 21:33:58 GMT -5
Our copper mine visit was the Delaware mine up towards Copper Harbor . About 90 degrees that day and the people recommended a light jacket down in the mine . Glad we had them , kinda thermal shock when we came up though . Caves are the average temperature of the area they are located. Here in Tennessee our average cave temp is 58 degrees. In the UP it is more like 48 degrees. Can be a big shock changing temperatures that quickly. [/quote] Going down in was quite refreshing but being climatized for a bit warmer , was almost wishing for a little warmer jacket .
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 5, 2017 5:43:43 GMT -5
The well water here in Atlanta is about 63F, Florida is 72F. Was curious about cave temps in the north. 48F in Michigan, 58F in Georgia, 65F in N Florida(@ 55 feet down). Note Florida is 300 miles south with 65 - 58 = 7F difference and Michigan is 1200 miles ? north with 10F difference. Makes spelunking(uh caving in fantastic5 's case) a comfortable adventure in hot summers and cold winters. Ann, Georgia folks are mere hillbillies, Tennessee folks are mountaineers. My buddy James Englett also claims to be a caver. He helps me with my welding. Crazy James: "About five years ago a caver and big-wall aficionado named James Englett, now 42, approached Twilley with the idea of organizing a return to Mount Thor. Sitting around campfires at caving functions in and around his native state of Tennessee, Twilley and Englett speculated that it would be possible to rappel farther than the 1982 expedition did. A team rigging at a slightly different spot on the summit, dropping the rope farther down the scree slope at Thor's base, might achieve a rappel of as long as 4,000 feet." James' attempts world record on Mt. Thor next to Greenland(like I said, crazy): www.si.com/vault/2004/09/13/8185118/toil-and-trouble-on-mount-thor#
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Post by fantastic5 on May 5, 2017 6:48:36 GMT -5
The well water here in Atlanta is about 63F, Florida is 72F. Was curious about cave temps in the north. 48F in Michigan, 58F in Georgia, 65F in N Florida(@ 55 feet down). Note Florida is 300 miles south with 65 - 58 = 7F difference and Michigan is 1200 miles ? north with 10F difference. Makes spelunking(uh caving in fantastic5 's case) a comfortable adventure in hot summers and cold winters. I was surpised at the little difference between Tennessee and Michigan as well. I do remember that cave in south Georgia was HOT as caves go. Plus it was a hell of a trip. You asked why those calcite formations were not poached. Couple of reasons. 1st. the cave entrance is now a bat friendly locked gate to prevent unwanted visitors. Second, it is a huge system with lots of twists and turns. If you don't know where you are going it would be hard to find the pretty rooms. And lastly, we were a small group of experienced cavers and it took hours of serious work to get back to the granny star and then farther to the hall of angels. Couldn't do it now, 'bout wiped me out back when I was in good shape. Early on had to navigate a section called the birth canal. Small sloped long belly crawl that does a tight 180. We had one guy on our trip over 6' took him several attempts to contort himself into the turn. Didn't think he could go any farther. Leg bones don't bend. Chart of average temperatures. Close to what the caves would be.
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Post by fantastic5 on May 5, 2017 7:04:22 GMT -5
Crazy James: "About five years ago a caver and big-wall aficionado named James Englett, now 42, approached Twilley with the idea of organizing a return to Mount Thor. Sitting around campfires at caving functions in and around his native state of Tennessee, Twilley and Englett speculated that it would be possible to rappel farther than the 1982 expedition did. A team rigging at a slightly different spot on the summit, dropping the rope farther down the scree slope at Thor's base, might achieve a rappel of as long as 4,000 feet." James' attempts world record on Mt. Thor next to Greenland(like I said, crazy): www.si.com/vault/2004/09/13/8185118/toil-and-trouble-on-mount-thor#That expedition was during my height of caving. Amazed I didn't cross paths with Englett or even hear about the caving rope donation. Bet our paths nearly crossed many times. Still have my nearly new 300' coil of rope. Can't part with it, but if it gets much older, can't risk using it either.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on May 5, 2017 7:40:17 GMT -5
I figured you heard of James fantastic5. He has retired from such rigor and is 57 yrs old. Use that rope for tying down trailers and dragging trash of the yard please. You may have heard of the Sharco family. They live close by and are a big caving family. The nephew worked for me in the nursery for years. Big Tag activist. I did all my caving age 16 to 20. We were a rag tag bunch and were as much into caving as substance abuse. Never sober at the cave God help us. Safety was not so paramount. So we were very active and made trips on whims and many of them since we avoided the complications of safety equipment.
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