swaver101
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Member since May 2018
Posts: 111
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Post by swaver101 on Jan 19, 2019 6:50:15 GMT -5
I have looked for this thread, and I have found it on other sites, but not this forum! Please point me in the right direction if I posted this to the wrong place! Thanks so much
I am looking at buying my first piece of equipment (other than a tumbler I mean)
My options are. Buy a new Diamond Pacific Genie or a CabKing 6 or 8"?
I can get a new CabKing 8" for a similar price as a new Genie 6".! If I went with the CabKing, I would eventually swap the wheels for DP Nova's!
So I am setting this machine up in my storage room at home (just a spare room with wood flooring). I am curious on the noise the CabKing makes when running(not grinding) compared to the genie!? I have only ever used the genies our local club has and have heard the CabKing are louder than the DP!
I love the idea of the water drip of the CK rather than DP's spout.. and the cost of it! But I love hearing about people's 25+ year old genies still working great(and seeing first hand the four 20+ year old ones our club has)
I don't have tons of room for my set up, just a desk, so I feel like the CK would be a pain with the buckets and hoses everywhere, but would be willing to deal with it if it meant I'd be happier with it!
I don't want to get a DP just because it's what most of the old timers recommend, but I really really do like the DP nova wheels and am nervous about trying the CK wheels!
I have no saws or anything at the moment, and I am planning on just using the saws at my local club for the first while!
Thanks for any input! Also, is there anywhere to look for used equipment other than eBay? Thanks in advance for all of your time, advice, and comments!
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swaver101
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Member since May 2018
Posts: 111
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Post by swaver101 on Jan 19, 2019 6:53:44 GMT -5
Also, can I put flat pads on both of yhr sides of the Genie with some kind of adapter? I know I can with the Titan and with the CK, just want to make sure I can with the DP!
And if I can, what extra grinding disks would you recommend getting for the sides?
We have a 50,000grit in our club and it makes some of my stones really pop! Would that be doable on the side of the Genie? How about a leather pad? Thanks again in advance!
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jan 19, 2019 9:34:30 GMT -5
Okay - I'll go first.
Haven't used the CK, but know a couple of people who have one and are happy with it. Have also been told by a local dealer we trust that the V3 units they are now selling have had improvements made to them. I don't know what has changed since the original model.
Robin and I both have Genies (purchased used) that we really like. Wouldn't trade them for the CK. If you use both geysers under the wheel you're cutting on you'll get enough water.
There are many sources for 1/4-20 threaded polishing heads for the end of the shaft. We have a domed DP 50,000 Nova here you'd like, but you can make your own with different pads and compounds for different stones.
Customer service at Diamond Pacific is also probably best I've ever dealt with. Anyone there - all the way to the top - will talk with you to help with a problem or help you figure out what would work for you.
A used Genie, even with older (but usable) wheels don't cost much less than the CK retail price. There must be a reason for that... .
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 19, 2019 16:41:18 GMT -5
I don't have a CK but from I have heard from others that the Genie is less bulky and more portable. I love my genie. I use both geysers under the wheel, too and have plenty of water. Contamination has never been a problem. I cab on my kitchen table and move my genie when not is use, so it has to be easy to manage for me. I don't have a lot of space.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 19, 2019 19:25:33 GMT -5
swaver101 You have Craig's List, right? I would check that religiously. I think there's an ap that will notify you if something you want comes up. But, hey, I don't even have a phone, so don't quote me on that. LOL! A lot of members here fix up old machines and resell them. Post a WTB (want to buy) in the selling section, maybe someone has a line on one.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jan 20, 2019 14:44:11 GMT -5
I have a 6" Cabking, but have never used a Genie. I got the cabking because it accomplishes the same thing and costs less, so I could use the extra money on rocks. The water drippers are nice, but they are also an extra thing that clogs. And since I have cats and my source bucket doesn't have a lid, they clog a lot, so I'm forever taking them off and blowing soggy globs of cat hair out. However, you never have to clean the trays if you don't want to, with no bubblers. Decent trade off there - I've never once cleaned mine and they aren't too bad - most of the crud drains out.
You need a source bucket with the pump in it (I use a 2 gallon), and a waste bucket (another 2 gallon). The hoses aren't actually an annoyance, other than the clogging. I put the source bucket on the table behind the unit. You can fill it with warm water from the shower too, since I see you live somewhere cold. The whole thing fits nicely on a 2' x 4' table, with a foot on either side for your "stuff". I'm a "grrl", but it would be WAY too heavy for me to lift and move - that's a 2 person job with the CK. Maybe the Genie is a lot lighter?
To answer some of your questions: The cabking is nearly silent; the 8" CK is HUGE, but would allow you to cut bigger cabs. On the 6", the space between the wheels is only half an inch, so that limits the width of the stones you can cut without nicking them on the next wheel edge. Reliability: Mine is only . . . 4? (3 or 4) years old, so I can't speak to how long it lasts. The only problems I've had are clogging water nozzles and the set screw that holds on the right hand wheel assembly doesn't like to hold on tight enough. And if I was nitpicking, I'd say the sides of the hood (which are sheet metal that attaches magnetically) are getting a little vibrat-y. Taking off the wheels on the left side is a little irritating - requires 2 large wrenches. But you don't have to change those course wheels hardly ever so it's ok. Customer service has been good - when I called about the set screw, they put me right through to the engineer. They didn't offer to send me a new wheel assembly though, haha! The CK wheels work great, don't worry about that. As they wear out, you can replace them with Nova wheels if you want - shaft size is the same. The spin-on threaded attachment on the right hand side is great for polishing. It comes with one pad (canvas or felt, can't remember), which works great with diamond paste. I also got a leather one - I use leather for 14k and felt for 50k paste. Easy to use, and surprisingly, WAY easier to hold onto your stone than the flat lap. There is a spin on point on the left side which is intended to use with a flat lap (I think they send the lap disc with it? can't remember since I never use it).
Whichever one you buy, you're in for a treat!
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swaver101
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Member since May 2018
Posts: 111
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Post by swaver101 on Jan 23, 2019 21:24:44 GMT -5
I have a 6" Cabking, but have never used a Genie. I got the cabking because it accomplishes the same thing and costs less, so I could use the extra money on rocks. The water drippers are nice, but they are also an extra thing that clogs. And since I have cats and my source bucket doesn't have a lid, they clog a lot, so I'm forever taking them off and blowing soggy globs of cat hair out. However, you never have to clean the trays if you don't want to, with no bubblers. Decent trade off there - I've never once cleaned mine and they aren't too bad - most of the crud drains out. You need a source bucket with the pump in it (I use a 2 gallon), and a waste bucket (another 2 gallon). The hoses aren't actually an annoyance, other than the clogging. I put the source bucket on the table behind the unit. You can fill it with warm water from the shower too, since I see you live somewhere cold. The whole thing fits nicely on a 2' x 4' table, with a foot on either side for your "stuff". I'm a "grrl", but it would be WAY too heavy for me to lift and move - that's a 2 person job with the CK. Maybe the Genie is a lot lighter? To answer some of your questions: The cabking is nearly silent; the 8" CK is HUGE, but would allow you to cut bigger cabs. On the 6", the space between the wheels is only half an inch, so that limits the width of the stones you can cut without nicking them on the next wheel edge. Reliability: Mine is only . . . 4? (3 or 4) years old, so I can't speak to how long it lasts. The only problems I've had are clogging water nozzles and the set screw that holds on the right hand wheel assembly doesn't like to hold on tight enough. And if I was nitpicking, I'd say the sides of the hood (which are sheet metal that attaches magnetically) are getting a little vibrat-y. Taking off the wheels on the left side is a little irritating - requires 2 large wrenches. But you don't have to change those course wheels hardly ever so it's ok. Customer service has been good - when I called about the set screw, they put me right through to the engineer. They didn't offer to send me a new wheel assembly though, haha! The CK wheels work great, don't worry about that. As they wear out, you can replace them with Nova wheels if you want - shaft size is the same. The spin-on threaded attachment on the right hand side is great for polishing. It comes with one pad (canvas or felt, can't remember), which works great with diamond paste. I also got a leather one - I use leather for 14k and felt for 50k paste. Easy to use, and surprisingly, WAY easier to hold onto your stone than the flat lap. There is a spin on point on the left side which is intended to use with a flat lap (I think they send the lap disc with it? can't remember since I never use it). Whichever one you buy, you're in for a treat!
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swaver101
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Member since May 2018
Posts: 111
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Post by swaver101 on Jan 23, 2019 22:24:08 GMT -5
Oops, I am sorry, I'm not really sure how to use this yet..! Thanks so much for your very informative reply! I head the CK was much louder! But I also read somewhere that they keep upgrading their machines, which is great news! I am still kind of skeptical about the watering system! Although I love the idea of the water coming in from the top as opposed to the bottom, I'm not sure how I feel about having the two extra buckets..
How realistic is it to be able to move this machine a couple of times per day? Like, from where I store it, to my kitchen table or desk? Can I put the clean water with the pump in it on the ground? How long approximately is the hose on the pump? And do you know how much water it go through in say two hours of continuouses use?
I tried to buy a new Genie, but they have currently stopped selling them for a month or two while they find a new supplier for their motors! They are switching from a 1/4hp to a 1/2hp motor. Although that kind of scares me too! I heard they haven't changed the DP Genie in something like 25+ years... Now they are switching suppliers of one of the most important parts of the machines! I just wonder if it will be as reliable as I have heard all of the DP machines are!
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 23, 2019 23:47:00 GMT -5
Well, too bad about Baldor going away but the upgrade to 1/2hp sounds good. I own a Genie but only because I found an amazing deal on a used one. Not saying I don't like it, I do, but if I bought one new tomorrow it would be a Lortone 6 wheel stainless arbor setup, best bang for the buck, and easy to replace motor.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jan 24, 2019 8:55:27 GMT -5
The Lortone mentioned in the previous post brings up a great point.
Much better to be able to swap out an "off-the-shelf" motor.
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Post by lpl on Jan 24, 2019 11:09:41 GMT -5
Oops, I am sorry, I'm not really sure how to use this yet..! Thanks so much for your very informative reply! I head the CK was much louder! But I also read somewhere that they keep upgrading their machines, which is great news! I am still kind of skeptical about the watering system! Although I love the idea of the water coming in from the top as opposed to the bottom, I'm not sure how I feel about having the two extra buckets.. How realistic is it to be able to move this machine a couple of times per day? Like, from where I store it, to my kitchen table or desk? Can I put the clean water with the pump in it on the ground? How long approximately is the hose on the pump? And do you know how much water it go through in say two hours of continuouses use? I tried to buy a new Genie, but they have currently stopped selling them for a month or two while they find a new supplier for their motors! They are switching from a 1/4hp to a 1/2hp motor. Although that kind of scares me too! I heard they haven't changed the DP Genie in something like 25+ years... Now they are switching suppliers of one of the most important parts of the machines! I just wonder if it will be as reliable as I have heard all of the DP machines are! I have an older 6" CK that I picked up for a song, I suppose that's the only reason I have a CK instead of a Genie...and I have never used a Genie so I can't speak to them. But, my older CK runs very true, is very quiet when it is running. I am very pleased with the machine. I have it in a dedicated space and don't move it around. Two 5 gallon buckets underneath it, one with fresh water and one to catch the mucky water. Like Bluesky78987 said, it really is self cleaning. I never clean out the pans. And the hoses clean out too as I drilled holes for them through my workbench and they drain virtually straight down. To answer your question, I don't think it is very portable and moving it and several buckets around a couple times per day would be a huge PITA, at least for me. Seems like the machine weighs like 30+ pounds. A Genie might be a better choice for you if you need to move the machine around a lot, though I don't know how heave the Genies are. I think if I were you, I'd watch Craigslist religiously like rockjunquie said and you might get lucky. I think I have found all of my machines there and feel pretty good about them. There is also a FB lapidary equipment group you might check out too. Oh, and I cut for 3-4 hours before I need to change out water in the 5 gallon buckets.
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zarguy
fully equipped rock polisher
Cedar City, Utah - rockhound heaven!
Member since December 2005
Posts: 1,791
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Post by zarguy on Jan 24, 2019 11:29:04 GMT -5
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 24, 2019 11:43:19 GMT -5
I heard it was Baldor that no longer wanted to supply OEM motors in small batches (25 at a time I think DP ordered, they like to make 500 at a time). Truthfully, the Baldor motors have not been that trouble free since the European company bought them out. I know of one time when Genies were on back order they told me out of a 25 motor order only 5 were usable. Barranca had similar issues. They switched to one semi universal 1/3 hp capacitor start motor for most of their equipment saving money by buying one model in large quantities. Almost one whole pallet of motors had faulty overload protectors. The new motor which they are switching to is larger physically so I heard they are doing a little modifying of hoods, etc. to accommodate. I sold both brands in the past and CabKing after first generation seemed to be very good. Genie boxed for shipping is around 56 lbs. I think CabKing is heavier. Genie (if you can pick up close to 50 lbs.) would be most portable.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jan 25, 2019 9:31:11 GMT -5
Hmmm. I wonder what this will mean for anyone who ever needs to replace a motor on an older Genie. I won't see Don until our show in August, but this will be something I'll ask him about when I can talk to him in person.
If anyone has discussed this with DP I'm sure many people would appreciate hearing more about retrofits on older units.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,455
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Post by Sabre52 on Jan 25, 2019 12:04:17 GMT -5
My 6" Genie is probably almost 40 years old. In that time frame I did have to get one new arbor unit as the motor caught on fire and burnt up. The pump is a little weak now so I use an aftermarket geyser along with the Genie one. My main complaint is the base is some kind of crap chipboard which eventually warped and bowed in our hot humid Texas weather. I find the idea of overhead cooling and a stainless tray very appealing on the Cab Kings....Mel
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 25, 2019 16:08:05 GMT -5
I would replace the particle board base with exterior grade 3/4" plywood. It looks like DP buys sink cutouts from a formica counter top company. DP stocks motor bearings and thrust washers and the motor can be rewound and repaired by a motor shop but it is labor intensive so "pretty spendy". I don't know how close the CK motor is to DP dimensionally but I did try a Genie shaft adapter on a CK and it is an exact fit.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,621
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Post by QuailRiver on Jan 25, 2019 17:27:02 GMT -5
I agree with Rockoonz. If I were forced to buy a new machine today I would buy a stainless steel model with a belt driven arbor. Not a thru-motor arbor. That way if the motor needs replacing it's no big deal. General Purpose, continuous duty 1/3hp 1725-1750rpm motors are very common and easy to find - plus much less expensive.
And if you're pressed for space build a small stand out of 2x4s screwed together with a 3/4" plywood (or thicker kitchen counter laminate) top and mount 4" or 5" Harbor Freight castors on the bottom so you can roll it out of the way when you need to. Which is what I have done with my cabbing machines.
And if you're REALLY pressed for space get a unit that has an open bottom section underneath the pulley section of the arbor so that you can cut a hole in your work table top for the belt to pass through and mount the motor underneath the cabbing machine with the motor pulley directly under the cabbing machine's arbor pulley.
Larry C.
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stonemon
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2017
Posts: 1,024
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Post by stonemon on Jan 25, 2019 17:51:37 GMT -5
I got a Genie when I purchased the inventory of a closed rock shop some time back. I have an 8" CK that is my main cabber so I lent the Genie to some young folks who were starting out in the hobby. At the time I was unaware of the capacitor problem with the Genie's and as it had been stored for some time, it burned up on them in no time. They felt terrible about the situation.
I took the unit apart, took the windings off of the shaft and put a pulley on there. I cut a hole in the motor housing, re-assembled the housing with the belt and bearings and mounted a motor on a hinged piece of plywood behind the unit. They have been using the machine, and the unit has been cutting well for about 3 years. Cost me 40 bucks for a motor on Craigslist and a couple more for the belt. Not pretty to look at but it saved me a bunch of $$ and all the parts that are left on the machine are readily available. I ended up gifting them the machine and they are happy with the conversion.
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hummingbirdstones2
fully equipped rock polisher
Vince A., 1958-2023
Member since August 2018
Posts: 1,461
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Post by hummingbirdstones2 on Jan 25, 2019 20:58:33 GMT -5
Way to go, Bill. That's my kind of engineering there. I still have the old dead motor from when I bought my Genie - now I know why!
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stonemon
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2017
Posts: 1,024
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Post by stonemon on Jan 25, 2019 21:18:22 GMT -5
The most difficult part of the conversion was finding a pulley with the right size bore to attach to the arbor. I think I got one at Grainger's in the end. Not sure. It is a simple thing to do and takes the dead Genie into a new life. Do it Vince! You will have another fine machine!
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