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Post by johnw on Jan 20, 2019 16:31:07 GMT -5
Just discovered this on eBay where it's kinda pricey. What is available here on RTH? Looking for 5-10-15-20 pound size boulders (5-10" diameter). Cheers, johnw
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Post by toiv0 on Jan 20, 2019 21:37:29 GMT -5
Call Highland Lapidary, I don't know how big of pieces they have but they had some in their rough rock division.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 21, 2019 1:46:46 GMT -5
Nice stuff but Jeff Hill tells me it's not palm, it's petrified caddis fly larvae, AKA maggot agate
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 3:20:13 GMT -5
Nice stuff but Jeff Hill tells me it's not palm, it's petrified caddis fly larvae, AKA maggot agate Rockoonz . Yeah, I read what the dude wrote but in my opinion he is doing himself and others who sell cabs and jewelry crafted from what the Indonesians call "Agatized Palm Root" rough a major disservice. The term he coined "Maggot Agate" as he jokingly called it, may have originated from caddisfly larvae that had infested palm roots during their incubation period but to arbitrarily attached Maggot Agate to the rough shows a distinct lack of understanding in how to market and sell a product. It would seem the Indonesians had a far better understanding of how to sell their product since in is most commonly referred to as "Agatized Palm Root Rough" on eBay and elsewhere in the USA. Fossil history Fossil caddisflies have been found in rocks dating back to the Triassic. The largest numbers of fossilized remains are those of larval cases, which are made of durable materials that preserve well. Body fossils of caddisflies are extremely rare, the oldest being from the Early and Middle Triassic, some 230 million years ago, and wings are another source of fossils. The evolution of the group to one with fully aquatic larvae seems to have taken place some time during the Triassic. The finding of fossils resembling caddisfly larval cases in marine deposits in Brazil may push back the origins of the order to the early Permian period. From my perspective, the image below is better sold as "Indonesian Agatized Palm Root" as opposed to "Maggot Agate". Final comment, if a person spends many, many hours crafting the perfect cab out of this material, then wraps it in gold or silver wire and add a really good looking chain and then presents it to his lady and tells her "here you are honey I made this outa some maggot agate, happy birthday" what do you think her reaction would be? Whereas if it was presented as "Indonesian Agatized Palm Root", I am thinking the reception would be far better......... But then again, that's just my opinion. Image by Linda
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 21, 2019 11:16:23 GMT -5
johnw I don't know how accurately describing something can be considered a disservice, I generally think presenting something as something else intentionally is patently dishonest. I have a bit of it that I got from Jeff and the "roots" of all the pieces I have terminate on both ends, unlike the large quantity of actual palm root that I also own. Also, in most actual palm root balls you will find pieces with the root "eyes" and palm wood in the same piece, often my favorites. One of the many Indonesian dealers spamming their stuff on social media is now calling it stromatolite agate. Marketing gone berserk IMO.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 11:41:09 GMT -5
Nice stuff but Jeff Hill tells me it's not palm, it's petrified caddis fly larvae, AKA maggot agate Rockoonz . Yeah, I read what the dude wrote but in my opinion he is doing himself and others who sell cabs and jewelry crafted from what the Indonesians call "Agatized Palm Root" rough a major disservice. The term he coined "Maggot Agate" as he jokingly called it, may have originated from caddisfly larvae that had infested palm roots during their incubation period but to arbitrarily attached Maggot Agate to the rough shows a distinct lack of understanding in how to market and sell a product. It would seem the Indonesians had a far better understanding of how to sell their product since in is most commonly referred to as "Agatized Palm Root Rough" on eBay and elsewhere in the USA. Fossil history Fossil caddisflies have been found in rocks dating back to the Triassic. The largest numbers of fossilized remains are those of larval cases, which are made of durable materials that preserve well. Body fossils of caddisflies are extremely rare, the oldest being from the Early and Middle Triassic, some 230 million years ago, and wings are another source of fossils. The evolution of the group to one with fully aquatic larvae seems to have taken place some time during the Triassic. The finding of fossils resembling caddisfly larval cases in marine deposits in Brazil may push back the origins of the order to the early Permian period. From my perspective, the image below is better sold as "Indonesian Agatized Palm Root" as opposed to "Maggot Agate". Final comment, if a person spends many, many hours crafting the perfect cab out of this material, then wraps it in gold or silver wire and add a really good looking chain and then presents it to his lady and tells her "here you are honey I made this outa some maggot agate, happy birthday" what do you think her reaction would be? Whereas if it was presented as "Indonesian Agatized Palm Root", I am thinking the reception would be far better......... But then again, that's just my opinion. The trouble with what you are saying is that there is already something called Indonesian petrified palm root and it doesn't look remotely similar. That would be confusing at the least and misleading at the worst.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 21, 2019 11:49:54 GMT -5
rockjunquie I still haven't got any of the root with the flame look, love that stuff. I feel like starting a thread about overly ambitious Indonesian (and other overseas) rock dealers. I'm fine with marketing your stuff but sheesh...
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 11:53:08 GMT -5
rockjunquie I still haven't got any of the root with the flame look, love that stuff. I feel like starting a thread about overly ambitious Indonesian (and other overseas) rock dealers. I'm fine with marketing your stuff but sheesh... A couple years ago, I bought a bunch of slabs and have been hoarding it. I don't see it as often anymore. It's beautiful stuff.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 11:59:13 GMT -5
How about instead of maggot agate - ewwww- it be called metamorphosis agate? After all, larva is but one phase of a metamorphosis.
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 14:11:44 GMT -5
johnw I don't know how accurately describing something can be considered a disservice, I generally think presenting something as something else intentionally is patently dishonest. I have a bit of it that I got from Jeff and the "roots" of all the pieces I have terminate on both ends, unlike the large quantity of actual palm root that I also own. Also, in most actual palm root balls you will find pieces with the root "eyes" and palm wood in the same piece, often my favorites. One of the many Indonesian dealers spamming their stuff on social media is now calling it stromatolite agate. Marketing gone berserk IMO. Rockoonz : this is an interesting discussion. The term "Maggot Agate" was "coined" by this Jeff Hill, as he so states on his site on eBay and is by no means certified as far as I know, but will look into it further and report back. Do you know it is a correct definition for the material? My whole point is he is willfully applying a term of his own making to something and it shows a remarkable lack of understanding in how to best market a product. I held a 35% market share of Chillers in the China HVAC market from 1992 thru 1998 so have some experience in this matter. Understand Rockoonz I have no dog in this fight I am just surprised that somebody would knowingly denigrate the product he is trying to sell. I thought my example gave a good reasoning behind not calling it like he does. I mean c'mon, what wife or lady friend wants to wear maggot agate around their neck? Think coprolite versus dinosaur shit. . It's like saying: "hi honey, I have just crafted a nice pendant for you made of dinosaur shit" Get my point? Let's continue this conversation and I ask any of the RTH staff or readers if they can point to where we can get an accurate description of this material we are discussing. Cheers, johnw
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 14:24:28 GMT -5
The trouble with what you are saying is that there is already something called Indonesian petrified palm root and it doesn't look remotely similar. That would be confusing at the least and misleading at the worst. rockjunquie: Interesting comment. You don't suppose there can be more than one variety of what you call Indonesion palm root? Just sayin? Cheers, johnw
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 14:28:16 GMT -5
How about instead of maggot agate - ewwww- it be called metamorphosis agate? After all, larva is but one phase of a metamorphosis. Love it, what do you call dinosaur S---. Err, hmmm, well,I make exceptions for moderators. Cheers, johnw
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 14:30:00 GMT -5
The trouble with what you are saying is that there is already something called Indonesian petrified palm root and it doesn't look remotely similar. That would be confusing at the least and misleading at the worst. rockjunquie : Interesting comment. You don't suppose there can be more than one variety of what you call Indonesion palm root? Just sayin? Cheers, johnw No, not really. Not without a lot of confusion. The Indonesian Palm Root has been around a while now and it is highly desirable. If I were looking for it and ran across the maggot agate, I would be scratching my head and thinking the seller doesn't know what he is talking about. As for your question about an accurate description, the only one I have seen is from Jeff Hill. Who is a seller I frequently buy from and trust.
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 15:44:14 GMT -5
rockjunquie : Interesting comment. You don't suppose there can be more than one variety of what you call Indonesion palm root? Just sayin? Cheers, johnw No, not really. Not without a lot of confusion. The Indonesian Palm Root has been around a while now and it is highly desirable. If I were looking for it and ran across the maggot agate, I would be scratching my head and thinking the seller doesn't know what he is talking about. As for your question about an accurate description, the only one I have seen is from Jeff Hill. Who is a seller I frequently buy from and trust. But he made this up. Am I right? I am checking Mineral.net site right now. Cheers, johnw
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 15:46:47 GMT -5
No, not really. Not without a lot of confusion. The Indonesian Palm Root has been around a while now and it is highly desirable. If I were looking for it and ran across the maggot agate, I would be scratching my head and thinking the seller doesn't know what he is talking about. As for your question about an accurate description, the only one I have seen is from Jeff Hill. Who is a seller I frequently buy from and trust. But he made this up. Am I right? I am checking Mineral.net site right now. Cheers, johnw I have no idea if he just made it up on the fly or not.
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 16:45:48 GMT -5
But he made this up. Am I right? I am checking Mineral.net site right now. Cheers, johnw I have no idea if he just made it up on the fly or not. rockjunquie : your choice of words is awesome and is not lost on anyone. I hit out at Minerals.Net, they talk a lot about agatized wood but not palm root. But what I found on Etsy was very interesting: "How did such a beautiful stone, Agatized Indonesian Palm Root get such a disgusting name? Turns out one day an Entomologist observed-" Ah it is much like Caddis Fly Larva in appearance".And the name stuck, in rockhound terminology as Maggot Agate." Not sure if this is a made up story, but it fits, also, it's doubtful that Jeff Hill was that Etemologist and probably heard the story and is paraphrasing the remark. Anyway, never mind, I'll just keep searching for the correct identity since I believe the stone has a lot of merit, has magnificent multi-coloring, and, is really an appealing sight to behold. So being mindful of our female audience and any alternate gender people, I will refer to it as "Eye Candy." It does seems to me to be a much more appropriate term as opposed to Maggot Agate which elicited the comment from your good-self as being "eewwwww"......... for which I rest's me case yer o'ner........ Cheers, johnw
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 16:58:54 GMT -5
I agree it is a pretty material. I haven't worked with any myself, but I like it.
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Post by johnw on Jan 21, 2019 17:28:54 GMT -5
I agree it is a pretty material. I haven't worked with any myself, but I like it. I am hoping it tumbles well. Does anyone have any history of tumbling with agatized palm root? Cheers, johnw
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 21, 2019 18:12:39 GMT -5
johnw- I ran across these a few years ago and went and found them again for you in case you haven't seen them. www.indonesianfossilcoral.com/wood3.htmlwww.indoagate.com/palm.htmlwww.indoagate.com/wood.htmlI don't see anything like the maggot agate. This is a quote from Jeffrey Hill in one of his ads. I could not find any real information about it, as you said. But, I don't think that the maggot agate is fossilized palm root. I would think that either of the 2 Indonesian websites, or both, would picture the "maggot agate" if that was where it was from.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jan 21, 2019 18:40:57 GMT -5
johnw I can't say unequivocally that it is fossilized larvae but I can state that it is absolutely not palm root. False marketing is not marketing, it's fraud. One could argue that in our case the lie has no effect on the finished product so it's not unreasonable to say no harm, no foul, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not palm root. If you purchased something marketed as a natural stone and later found that it was altered or perhaps a manmade material and not stone at all, would you be okay with their marketing strategy? It should tumble fine since it's agate, It is difficult to work with because of the fractures and micropits, but does take a fine polish.
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