NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Apr 9, 2019 12:15:48 GMT -5
So, I am new at the rock tumbling hobby. But I am finding that my biggest confusion is about when a rock is truly ready for polish or not. I have about 25-30 lbs. of rock rolling at any given day, and weekly it is always with surprise and often disappointment when I open the barrels up after 7 days and find almost not a single one is really perfect?!? I mean, some of them I am getting to know pretty well, and every week I anxiously look to them to move on, but there is just that pit, crack, spall, or one spot that just doesn't seem to be improving. Opening Stage 1 tumblers is starting to get me down. Last night I asked my wife to pick only her favorites out of all of the 20+ pounds of finished rock that I've produced. And this is all she moved in to the pile. Half of these were tumbled by nature (the Colorado River), which is a powerful swift moving force of nature. At least some of them are my most recent, so I should be happy about that though. Like less than 20 rocks? One percent? So, this is the fruits of my 3 months labor? And I can tell you that nearly every single one of these rocks has a little imperfection in them too. Like an internal crack, or a little chip, or something. Is Stage 1 really ever done? Do I need to become really picky and just pass 1 or 2 rocks from a 6 lb. barrel each week? Looking at the finished stones by the pros here at RTH, perhaps so? I realize that my standards are lower, and I have tumbled rocks that many would not even consider putting in the barrel to begin with. Here are actually some of the rocks that I pulled out of Stage 1, after 1 week a couple months ago: I mean, look at the rough! And look at what I chose to tumble! Would any of the pros really think about using this material in a tumbler?? Yet, I have 3-4 lbs. of the finished stuff you see here, in a bowl. Proudly displaying to friends that come over. My work! Maybe I need to toughen up. Lately when I see a rock like this come out of a tumbler, I have been throwing them in to the bard yard landscaping in disgust. Maybe I am. But where does it end? Sorry, this has turned in to more of a vent than a constructive question set. Thank you for humoring me.
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 9, 2019 12:47:30 GMT -5
I don't tumble. Tumbling to me, is taking some attractive stones and putting a polish on them, not expecting perfection, only natural beauty. The bowl is a nice display of colors. Cutting shapes on slabs and making tumbled cabs, the lack of flaws is more important.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 9, 2019 12:52:23 GMT -5
So, I am new at the rock tumbling hobby. But I am finding that my biggest confusion is about when a rock is truly ready for polish or not. I have about 25-30 lbs. of rock rolling at any given day, and weekly it is always with surprise and often disappointment when I open the barrels up after 7 days and find almost not a single one is really perfect?!? I mean, some of them I am getting to know pretty well, and every week I anxiously look to them to move on, but there is just that pit, crack, spall, or one spot that just doesn't seem to be improving. Opening Stage 1 tumblers is starting to get me down. Last night I asked my wife to pick only her favorites out of all of the 20+ pounds of finished rock that I've produced. And this is all she moved in to the pile. Half of these were tumbled by nature (the Colorado River), which is a powerful swift moving force of nature. At least some of them are my most recent, so I should be happy about that though. Like less than 20 rocks? One percent? So, this is the fruits of my 3 months labor? And I can tell you that nearly every single one of these rocks has a little imperfection in them too. Like an internal crack, or a little chip, or something. Is Stage 1 really ever done? Do I need to become really picky and just pass 1 or 2 rocks from a 6 lb. barrel each week? Looking at the finished stones by the pros here at RTH, perhaps so? I realize that my standards are lower, and I have tumbled rocks that many would not even consider putting in the barrel to begin with. Here are actually some of the rocks that I pulled out of Stage 1, after 1 week a couple months ago: I mean, look at the rough! And look at what I chose to tumble! Would any of the pros really think about using this material in a tumbler?? Yet, I have 3-4 lbs. of the finished stuff you see here, in a bowl. Proudly displaying to friends that come over. My work! Maybe I need to toughen up. Lately when I see a rock like this come out of a tumbler, I have been throwing them in to the bard yard landscaping in disgust. Maybe I am. But where does it end? Sorry, this has turned in to more of a vent than a constructive question set. Thank you for humoring me. The finished tumbles in the bowl look pretty darn good as far as shine goes. In my process any rocks with single flaws go to the grinder for a quick second to avoid tumbling for several more weeks. None of the rough tumbled rocks in your second photo would continue for me. Those would all be going back to nature. Each person has their own set of standards though. Honestly you could toss all of those in a vibe tumbler and in one week they would be super shiny yet very "natural" stones. I used the word natural in place of flawed. Better marketing that way. Chuck
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Apr 9, 2019 12:53:57 GMT -5
"Are my rocks ever done".......?
The forever evolving question.........!
There done when you say they are done.....!.....like any physical endeavor we pursue, there are several levels of satisfaction along with, knowledge, skills and ability we achieve through practice and repetition.......ones "bar ' is either raised or lowered depending on goals and practical (realistic) intentions set before we even start......and of course personal tastes and application.
With rocks, ones outcome will always be predicated on the quality of material, tools and ability to use those tools one starts with.......the old adage "garbage in - garbage out" certainly applies here........once knowledge and experience are gained, it's human nature to raise expectations or settle for a comfort zone that fits the time, money and enthusiasm one desires to maintain.....!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Apr 9, 2019 12:56:57 GMT -5
I don't tumble. Tumbling to me, is taking some attractive stones and putting a polish on them, not expecting perfection, only natural beauty. The bowl is a nice display of colors. Cutting shapes on slabs and making tumbled cabs, the lack of flaws is more important. Just about any rock that can be cabbed to perfection can also be tumbled to perfection. Think of them as multi dimensional cabs. Chuck
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Post by stardiamond on Apr 9, 2019 13:11:19 GMT -5
I don't tumble. Tumbling to me, is taking some attractive stones and putting a polish on them, not expecting perfection, only natural beauty. The bowl is a nice display of colors. Cutting shapes on slabs and making tumbled cabs, the lack of flaws is more important. Just about any rock that can be cabbed to perfection can also be tumbled to perfection. Think of them as multi dimensional cabs. Chuck That is true. When I cab and find an imperfection like a vug or matrix, I try to grind it away and when I can't, I give up. For me, any imperfection is unacceptable. I would be okay with a tumbled piece of attractive material that had a flaw. Rocks are flawed. Cabbing works around the flaws.
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Post by MsAli on Apr 9, 2019 13:12:38 GMT -5
I dont know if it would help you but that rough you show looks like it could be broken down even further along those fracture lines. I would take a chisel and hammer to them and break them down
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Post by miket on Apr 9, 2019 14:20:49 GMT -5
That's something I've struggled with and learned about, too. It's mostly about how you like them. Yes, they can be tumbled to "perfection"- as can be seen by the many awesome tumblers here on RTH. I have rocks that have been rolling since Christmas and I'm still not moving them on. It's really a personal decision. I also have many rocks that a lot of people might consider a waste of barrel space but I stick with them. I'm doing it for fun and 99% of what I've tumbled is self-collected. Besides, why not? I have also learned from trying to cab stones with a dremel that a little bit of shaping before you put them in the tumbler goes a long way in shortening the time they spend in the coarse stage. It's hard not to get discouraged but keep going, you're doing great!
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Post by Pat on Apr 9, 2019 14:30:47 GMT -5
I'm not a tumbler. I'd say they are done when you declare them done! Tumblers are the most patient rockhounds. Good luck : )
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Post by fernwood on Apr 9, 2019 15:27:31 GMT -5
I like the more natural looking tumbled rocks. Pet Wood with a little bark showing. Areas of natural crystals or vugs. It is all about personal preference.
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Post by Rockindad on Apr 9, 2019 17:40:41 GMT -5
You do not have to answer these for anyone but yourself: 1) What is the end product that you want to see/ that you would be happy with? 2) Are you willing to do what it takes to get there?
There are hundreds of threads here that can help you get where you want to go. We all have to set and be content with our own standards. In my situation I am doing this with my 10 year old son. I knew if we went for absolute perfection right away that i would lose him as no kid (or me neither) wants to wait months to get their first payoff. So we did the 1 week at each stage (all rotary) and were pretty happy. A lot of that first batch turned out pretty good, but nowhere what we are doing now. Even now he is trying to get enough done for a craft fair so while he is trying to maintain fairly high standards there is a deadline involved. As to the evolving standards- anything started within the last week or two will be subject to a much higher inspection as these would not have a chance of being ready for his fair anyways.
One suggestion I have is to do some shaping (other than tumbling) on the trouble rocks. Even if you do not want to invest a lot of time pre-shaping you can run a load for a week or two and address problem areas with a hand grinder, bench grinder, tile saw, etc. Lots of info on here about that also. Good luck!
Al
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Apr 10, 2019 12:46:20 GMT -5
Thank you for chiming in, some nice words, and words of advice and of personal experience.
I feel like the question is very subjective, and as Chuck mentions, also a very personal thing as each one of us has our own standards.
Also as Pizzano points out, every rock can be unique, and "finished" is a standard for each rock that we might set initially, before any tumbling begins. Experience is a teacher, and expectations change over time. Great points made.
So it is not a fair question, really.
Right now I really love making round polished rocks. I don't mind using up any of my material, because my latest attitude is that I can always find more. So I am trying to use my best rocks now.
Before, admittedly before coming to RTH, I was just throwing rocks in a tumbler to see what happened.
I always have a lot of excitement to check Stage 1 after 7 days. I keep checking my tumbling log for the date, and I can't wait.
But more often, I am starting to feel down after going through the batch.
I think I need to toughen up.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Apr 10, 2019 12:52:10 GMT -5
I dont know if it would help you but that rough you show looks like it could be broken down even further along those fracture lines. I would take a chisel and hammer to them and break them down Thank you Ali. That is really good advice that I will take going forward. I actually spent hours digging those out of a vein in the side of some steep hill. It was a long steep trek back to the truck too. I was proud to get them. I felt like a real miner! But when I saw how they were turning out in a tumbler, I got upset and drove them all back to the desert they came from.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Apr 10, 2019 13:01:51 GMT -5
You do not have to answer these for anyone but yourself ... One suggestion I have is to do some shaping (other than tumbling) on the trouble rocks. Even if you do not want to invest a lot of time pre-shaping you can run a load for a week or two and address problem areas with a hand grinder, bench grinder, tile saw, etc. Lots of info on here about that also. Good luck! Al Thanks for the suggestion Al. Also MikeT for mentioning it as well. Somehow I saw the need for a trim saw, and I can't tell you how much this has helped to create better rocks that go into the initial barrel. I have about 20 lbs. of material so far and am just starting to use it up now. Thank you. I also keep reading about grinders. I've been trying the Dremel tool with the flexible extension, with some diamond cones, slicers, and bits. It just seems so slow. I wish I had a grinding wheel. And there are two beauties for sale on RTH last time I checked too. I am challenged for space now, and have to pass on them though.
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Post by MsAli on Apr 10, 2019 13:20:10 GMT -5
You do not have to answer these for anyone but yourself ... One suggestion I have is to do some shaping (other than tumbling) on the trouble rocks. Even if you do not want to invest a lot of time pre-shaping you can run a load for a week or two and address problem areas with a hand grinder, bench grinder, tile saw, etc. Lots of info on here about that also. Good luck! Al Thanks for the suggestion Al. Also MikeT for mentioning it as well. Somehow I saw the need for a trim saw, and I can't tell you how much this has helped to create better rocks that go into the initial barrel. I have about 20 lbs. of material so far and am just starting to use it up now. Thank you. I also keep reading about grinders. I've been trying the Dremel tool with the flexible extension, with some diamond cones, slicers, and bits. It just seems so slow. I wish I had a grinding wheel. And there are two beauties for sale on RTH last time I checked too. I am challenged for space now, and have to pass on them though. Trim saw can make a world of difference
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Post by miket on Apr 10, 2019 14:16:10 GMT -5
You do not have to answer these for anyone but yourself ... One suggestion I have is to do some shaping (other than tumbling) on the trouble rocks. Even if you do not want to invest a lot of time pre-shaping you can run a load for a week or two and address problem areas with a hand grinder, bench grinder, tile saw, etc. Lots of info on here about that also. Good luck! Al Thanks for the suggestion Al. Also MikeT for mentioning it as well. Somehow I saw the need for a trim saw, and I can't tell you how much this has helped to create better rocks that go into the initial barrel. I have about 20 lbs. of material so far and am just starting to use it up now. Thank you. I also keep reading about grinders. I've been trying the Dremel tool with the flexible extension, with some diamond cones, slicers, and bits. It just seems so slow. I wish I had a grinding wheel. And there are two beauties for sale on RTH last time I checked too. I am challenged for space now, and have to pass on them though. A grinding wheel would be nice. I've been using a dremel as well- the barrel bits seem to work the best for me. It is slow work, though, I mostly work with agates and wood. They do make short work of obsidian, however. But I don't really mind, I'm still enjoying the process. Like I said, keep doing what you're doing and you'll get to where you want to be eventually. Kind of the whole "journey, not the destination" kind of thing I guess.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Apr 10, 2019 14:34:06 GMT -5
Thanks Mike. I think I just need to start tumbling better material. Then things will look up more.
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,175
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Post by RWA3006 on Apr 10, 2019 17:00:51 GMT -5
I have also learned from trying to cab stones with a dremel that a little bit of shaping before you put them in the tumbler goes a long way in shortening the time they spend in the coarse stage. So true about shaping before starting the tumble process. I use a super grinder to do this and it really speeds up the process. What I mean by super grinder is a tuck point blade mounted in a tile saw. This grinder is an idea James shared a year or two ago. Can't remember the thread ... will look. edit... nice thing about a tile saw super grinder is it can somewhat sit out in the weather due to it's design which is handy if you're short on space indoors.
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jimaz
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2018
Posts: 461
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Post by jimaz on Apr 10, 2019 18:20:16 GMT -5
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Apr 11, 2019 15:29:58 GMT -5
Great Idea! And thanks for the link too! I have bookmarked and will come back to read more about this later. But I guess it makes sense that you could use a big fat blade on a saw to rapidly remove material too.
Thank you for the idea.
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