jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Nov 13, 2019 18:22:11 GMT -5
More people needs to experiment with certain brands of vibes to improve polish on softer stuff. A proper running Lot-O is a fine polishing machine. Unfortunately the end polish controls a successful outcome when tinkering with a vibe EricD . The rocks must move fluidly in the vibe, call it the action. That is a given. Whether are not the spring is linear or non-linear really does not matter. The Lot-o spring is a hammock, perfect analogy. Moving that dowel has a big effect. An adjustable pivot point sounds like the way to go. I think you will find one setting will be the do-all setting. One issue with the Lot-O is it is that the off-balance generator is quite under powered IMO. So adjustments like adding weight to the hopper or forcing the hopper to travel too far may be beyond the ability of the off-balance generator to handle. On the other hand, the Vibrasonic has a big flat shaking table top with two threaded studs sticking up. An old school beast. You can bolt hoppers from 6 pounds to over 50 pound capacities and the 1/3 HP(power eating) motor for off-balance generator will handle them easily. The way I tamed the Vibrasonic was by adding weight to the hopper(a welded steel hopper) and lowered the hopper closer to the off-balance generator under the shaking table to reduce the vibration travel or distance. The result was a firm vibration with short travel and mild reversals on each vibration. It is the sharp reversals that bruises rocks(saw tooth wave verses sin wave). If you are going to tinker get a Vibrasonic. It is the experimenters dream. Built like a brick schnitt house. I got a used one for $300. For myself I really like the Mini-Sonic. Having a dial to control vibration is really nice. Have a load of Obsidian Pendants that were giving me fits in the UV, kept frosting on the thin edges. They are in the soap burnish now. By dialing back the vib rate a bit(and extra polish slurry and pea gravel) the frosting is gone. For regular a normal Agate/Wood load the UV-18 works fine. I have the 3 hopper, MT-14. Each of the 3 - 4 pound hoppers has it's own control which allows me to run just one for small loads. Just wish they made a larger hopper as the opening on the 4 pound hopper does not allow anything larger than 3 inch. A 8 to 10 pound hopper would be really nice. The mini-sonic is being reserved for AO only, and everything coming out of SiC get's a 5 hour soap run before the AO. Yes, would be nice if those Minisonics had bigger openings. The 2 Minisonic's mounted together on the Vibrasonic got replaced with a big mouth steel hopper made out of a 6 inch steel pipe because of their small openings. The newer steel one got a divider welded in the center for doing 2 big rocks without colliding and bruising. Must have done 50 batches in it. AO 220, then AO polish over and over. It took effort to bruise any material in any slurry in either. I'd forget them and let them coagulate, forget to put slurry additive in, under loaded it. Mini sonic hoppers slung low: Steel hopper before divider was added. It holds 8 pounds.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Nov 27, 2019 21:08:40 GMT -5
I got a little over-zealous in my adjustments of the Lot O tuning dowel the other day and woke up to 4 broken secondary springs in the rear. It's taking a rest while I smooth out the dimple in the bottom of the barrels and order new springs.
Although I AM going to try running with single springs in the back. It seems to be a lot more forgiving as far as adjustments go and equally competent as far as action.
Might even be less of a load for the motor.
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Post by aDave on Nov 27, 2019 23:42:37 GMT -5
I got a little over-zealous in my adjustments of the Lot O tuning dowel the other day and woke up to 4 broken secondary springs in the rear. It's taking a rest while I smooth out the dimple in the bottom of the barrels and order new springs. Although I AM going to try running with single springs in the back. It seems to be a lot more forgiving as far as adjustments go and equally competent as far as action. Might even be less of a load for the motor. I had heard this was a possibility if the dowel was moved to make the movement more aggressive. Can't recall if I mentioned it or not in an earlier post. How many hours do you think you had on the machine after moving the dowel until the springs broke? You have the double barrel correct? With the excess weight, perhaps it's not quite as forgiving with dowel movement.
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EricD
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High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
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Post by EricD on Nov 28, 2019 9:05:59 GMT -5
I got a little over-zealous in my adjustments of the Lot O tuning dowel the other day and woke up to 4 broken secondary springs in the rear. It's taking a rest while I smooth out the dimple in the bottom of the barrels and order new springs. Although I AM going to try running with single springs in the back. It seems to be a lot more forgiving as far as adjustments go and equally competent as far as action. Might even be less of a load for the motor. I had heard this was a possibility if the dowel was moved to make the movement more aggressive. Can't recall if I mentioned it or not in an earlier post. How many hours do you think you had on the machine after moving the dowel until the springs broke? You have the double barrel correct? With the excess weight, perhaps it's not quite as forgiving with dowel movement. I had run it through a full cycle and a bit more, I think the total run with the dowel 1/8" from the frame was 13 days and no broken springs/excellent action.
I have the double version of the Lot O, yes. It wasn't until I moved the dowel just barely under the frame, to the point of maximum attainable vibration, that it broke all the lower rear springs by the time I woke up.
Didn't seem to affect the action one bit. I have also removed the 2 center front springs because it seemed too stiff. The single Lot O will bounce a few times if you give it a little bump downward. The Twin with 4 front springs doesn't. I'll see how the animal works tomorrow when the filler dries in the barrels.
I love reinventing things that work just fine already
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
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Post by EricD on Apr 7, 2020 8:58:35 GMT -5
Sure enough. I moved my dowel until the front face of the dowel and the rear face of the frame were lined up with each other and it more than doubled the rate the rocks were cycling past the opening. It was a little louder (almost like the rocks were airborne inside and bouncing on the bottom), so I backed it off about 1/8 inch before I secured it with brads. That amount reduced the rate of cycling approximately 1/4, but it is still more than double the snails pace I had before. Very happy that I got my Lot-O to function like the rest of them I see in videos! Eric One other thing to note, your tennis balls "might" be dampening the vibration too much. I don't recall where I read it, but I remember seeing a note somewhere that too much cushion may have an adverse effect on vibration/movement. But, perhaps you moving the dowel has offset this issue for you. Yesterday I set the vibe and it's heavy base on 3/4" of styrofoam instead of the tennis balls. There was an extremely tiny and perhaps imagined difference in action.
There seemed to be a bit more bounce to the front on the machine as the motor neared a stop after being turned off, like I had mentioned seeing before in videos where the author gave the machine a bump.
More noticeable was that I could now feel vibration through the concrete more than 30 feet away and could hear the buzz even though I was 3 rooms over with 2 closed doors. This small machine vibrating a 30'x50'x8" concrete slab with a 13' high block and brick building sitting on top of it? I guess so. Back to tennis balls.
I have my dowel and the whole machine set very close to where it was at the factory these days, but do find I need to move the dowel around between 1/8" and 1/2" closer to the frame from stock for different types of loads, small vs large rocks, heavier materials, load density, and thickness of sugar slurry in ao500 and polish stages. I also like the faster action for the first stage since I can break down a teaspoon of 150/220 SiC in about 18-24 hours, clean out, and go again. At which point it's muddy enough to usually need a cleanout anyway.
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Post by knave on Apr 7, 2020 9:05:55 GMT -5
Great, another thread I get to go back and read. Thanks for stirring the Lot-O, EricD.
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Post by aDave on Apr 7, 2020 11:35:03 GMT -5
Yesterday I set the vibe and it's heavy base on 3/4" of styrofoam instead of the tennis balls. There was an extremely tiny and perhaps imagined difference in action. There seemed to be a bit more bounce to the front on the machine as the motor neared a stop after being turned off, like I had mentioned seeing before in videos where the author gave the machine a bump. More noticeable was that I could now feel vibration through the concrete more than 30 feet away and could hear the buzz even though I was 3 rooms over with 2 closed doors. This small machine vibrating a 30'x50'x8" concrete slab with a 13' high block and brick building sitting on top of it? I guess so. Back to tennis balls.
I have my dowel and the whole machine set very close to where it was at the factory these days, but do find I need to move the dowel around between 1/8" and 1/2" closer to the frame from stock for different types of loads, small vs large rocks, heavier materials, load density, and thickness of sugar slurry in ao500 and polish stages. I also like the faster action for the first stage since I can break down a teaspoon of 150/220 SiC in about 18-24 hours, clean out, and go again. At which point it's muddy enough to usually need a cleanout anyway.
Interesting findings. Thanks for the info. When I get up and running again, I may have to try this sugar thing to see if there is any difference in maintaining movement in my polish stage. If I recall correctly, don't you now have your dowel set with brads instead of hot glue? That would certainly make it easier to move the dowel as needed. Drilling into the dowel and base with the brads would definitely be the way to set multiple holes/positions.
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Apr 7, 2020 12:03:17 GMT -5
Yesterday I set the vibe and it's heavy base on 3/4" of styrofoam instead of the tennis balls. There was an extremely tiny and perhaps imagined difference in action. There seemed to be a bit more bounce to the front on the machine as the motor neared a stop after being turned off, like I had mentioned seeing before in videos where the author gave the machine a bump. More noticeable was that I could now feel vibration through the concrete more than 30 feet away and could hear the buzz even though I was 3 rooms over with 2 closed doors. This small machine vibrating a 30'x50'x8" concrete slab with a 13' high block and brick building sitting on top of it? I guess so. Back to tennis balls.
I have my dowel and the whole machine set very close to where it was at the factory these days, but do find I need to move the dowel around between 1/8" and 1/2" closer to the frame from stock for different types of loads, small vs large rocks, heavier materials, load density, and thickness of sugar slurry in ao500 and polish stages. I also like the faster action for the first stage since I can break down a teaspoon of 150/220 SiC in about 18-24 hours, clean out, and go again. At which point it's muddy enough to usually need a cleanout anyway.
Interesting findings. Thanks for the info. When I get up and running again, I may have to try this sugar thing to see if there is any difference in maintaining movement in my polish stage. If I recall correctly, don't you now have your dowel set with brads instead of hot glue? That would certainly make it easier to move the dowel as needed. Drilling into the dowel and base with the brads would definitely be the way to set multiple holes/positions.
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Post by oregon on Apr 7, 2020 19:35:42 GMT -5
I seem to bust springs more frequently than most. My orignial loto came screwed to a board wo and dowel. second wasn't even on a board. I've tried to duplicate the factory setup, but never seemed satisfactory. I just printed a piece that has a notch every 8th inch for 1/4" dowels. seems to work fine, but I still seem to bust springs. right at the back near the bolt hole.
I just drilled some spent sawsall blades the other day, going to see if they work instead of keeping on buying springs... here's the cad...
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Apr 8, 2020 8:34:02 GMT -5
I seem to bust springs more frequently than most. My orignial loto came screwed to a board wo and dowel. second wasn't even on a board. I've tried to duplicate the factory setup, but never seemed satisfactory. I just printed a piece that has a notch every 8th inch for 1/4" dowels. seems to work fine, but I still seem to bust springs. right at the back near the bolt hole.
I just drilled some spent sawsall blades the other day, going to see if they work instead of keeping on buying springs... here's the cad...
I use the short broken spring piece as a load spreading washer to prevent future spring breakage. So far haven't broken any since.
Yes, they do break at the edge of the small bolt's washer at the frame end without it.
I also made plastic spacers out of a windshield washer fluid jug for between the springs since they wear on each other near the dowel.
It may seem double in the pic since it's moving, but it's 2 springs, one plastic between them, and the broken spring end.
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chapslv
having dreams about rocks
Member since June 2020
Posts: 56
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Post by chapslv on Jun 23, 2020 15:19:43 GMT -5
This thread has been so informative. I realized several things that I need to check and a few things to improve on. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and experience.
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