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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 10, 2020 22:38:02 GMT -5
Ok, so I finally got enough rocks and grit to start using my new UV-10 (again many thanks to EricD). This is the 10 pound capacity barrel. I know this has been asked in the past, but I’m looking for more recent and updated information. How many Tbsps of grit should I be using for each of the stages...SIC120/220, AO500, AO1000 and AO Polish (all from The Rock Shed). Other things that I’m looking for help on are: I also need to know how to do clean outs in between each stage. I’ve seen some people add a drop or two of dish liquid before the clean out. How long is this run? After the above and a total clean out, rinsing the rocks and ceramics, scrubbing them to make sure there’s no grit and inspecting them to move on to the next stage and a total clean out of the barrel itself, I’d like to do a borax and water run to further make sure my rocks are clean and grit free. Once I add the rocks and ceramics back into a clean barrel, how much water and borax should I run and for how long? Should the barrel still be 3/4 full? Is this step the same as a final burnishing round after polish and am I going overkill by wanting to do it in between each stage? I plan on doing a burnishing run after the final polish. Is the above step and amounts of water and Borax and 3/4 full the same, as I plan on doing in between each of the other stages? Many thanks in advance my friends. Any help would be highly appreciated, along with any other useful tips or information. I’m really excited and hoping to turn out some beautiful rocks, even though they’re just river rocks and other common rocks that I find here in New Jersey. I’m trying to practice on my junk rocks first, thinking that if I can master them first, the real rocks will be a breeze. Plus I don’t want to ruin the nice ones while learning.
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Post by aDave on Jan 11, 2020 0:26:06 GMT -5
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braat
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2016
Posts: 350
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Post by braat on Jan 11, 2020 0:53:12 GMT -5
I don't do burnishing as I didn't see it made any difference so nothing to offer on that . As for grit amounts I use 2 tablespoons for each of the 220, prepolish and polish stages as well as 2 tablespoons borax for each stage. To get the correct amount of water I fill the the bowl (already loaded with media and rocks) with water then flip the bowl over holding the lid on (open a bit) and drain the water out till only a trickle is coming out..that gives the right action for the grit and borax amounts I use. My clean out procedure is to fill the bowl with water to about 1 inch below top of center cone, add 2 tablespoons borax and run for about 30 minutes then rinse rocks and media real good under running water and scrub bowl, lid and hardware(wingnuts and washers) in preparation for next stage. I've only done 3 or 4 batches in the year I've had the UV10 and I'm happy with results but I will defer to more experienced UV10 advice that may follow...
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 11, 2020 2:03:58 GMT -5
The thread Dave provided is a very good starting point.........and in many cases "on-point" with moisture tips.
The article does mention moisture consistency, however, they seem to refrain from calling it "slurry" development for some reason, only mentioning that "to make sure the grit/polishing media sticks to the stones".........developing/producing a consistent slurry for all stages of production is the key factor with all stone processing bowl vibes....!...as well as the type and amount of filler media (ceramics IMO are the best) being used.
Developing a good slurry will take practice and patients in a bowl vibe, every stage (120/220 through polish) will develop differently and the amount of liquid for each stage will differ.......because the compounds thicken at different rates due to the stone surfaces changing and loosing lesser amounts of material (from the friction being applied by the media).....in other words, heavy abrasive grits remove more stone material/volume and increase/add to the solids fluid volumes making the slurry. As you decrease the abrasives sizes and hardness (going from 120/220 to 500) less stone material is being added to the liquid, but it will be "sticking" to the stone/media better (providing the friction needed) if not over diluted........it's the nature of the vibe mechanical action in the bowl (both vertically and horizontally rotating the stones/media against each other) that forms the slurry.
As you have probably all ready read or learned, many of us add thickeners (clay products, I use Covington's Old Miser) to get the early stages of grinding slurry's started faster. However, most of us do not add thickeners past the 500 stage, since the compounds used past that stage will thicken and stick to the stone/media on their own, without help, if one doesn't apply to much liquid and has a full bowl, once 25% to 30% of filler (ceramics in my case) have been applied.
The amount and type of media (grinding/polishing compounds) required will depend on the type of stone, size of stone, type, size and amount of filler being processed. The article provides some good advice for this.........rough stages typically require silicon carbide compounds......pre-polish, polishing stages typically require alumina, cerium, tin oxides..........all work well in vibes, especially with ceramics.
Cleaning, when ready, after each cycle is more of a personal preference, what works best for you.......I've tried the "dish soap" route but prefer adding a tble spoon or two of Borax detergent at the end of each cycle, let run for an hour or so, then rinse and scrub the stones again with Borax....even after polishing stages........Just a tip I got here and from a buddy of mine who has been at this many years.
Hope this helps a little.........the trick with vibes is to make sure every stage develops a nice, creamy, consistent slurry, baby-sit it until your'e getting the results you seek, and don't be afraid to or feel bad if you have to re-start a cycle.......it's very difficult to thicken up a slurry after you've added to much liquid, we've all experinced that issue........it's just less hassle to start a cycle over, rather than trying to save a batch that is "washing" out...........error on the dryer side until your stones are rolling in all directions properly and the compounds are clearly sticking to the stones/media........Before you know it (with patience), you'll have a routine down you'll be pleased with.....!
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 11, 2020 2:48:35 GMT -5
This video provided in that link is what I went by, but am questioning the 6 Tbsp of 120/220. It seemed like a lot and have seen others here in past threads use much less. Anywhere from 2-4 Tbsp grit, so was wondering how much is commonly used today. Many thanks for taking the time to reply and for the link. I know it’s a fat chance, but I’m hoping to perfect my first run or least get close to it.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 11, 2020 3:04:00 GMT -5
Cleaning, when ready, after each cycle is more of a personal preference, what works best for you.......I've tried the "dish soap" route but prefer adding a tble spoon or two of Borax detergent at the end of each cycle, let run for an hour or so, then rinse and scrub the stones again with Borax....even after polishing stages........Just a tip I got here and from a buddy of mine who has been at this many years. So if I’m understanding you correctly here, you are adding a Tbsp or 2 of Borax into the slurry at the end of the stage and letting it run for an hour or so and then emptying the barrel into a colander and rinsing the rocks and ceramics. Then you’re adding them back to a cleaned barrel and adding water and borax again and running them for how long? And if so, how much water are you adding this time? I’m kind of lost and not understanding the part where you say, “then rinse and scrub the stones again with Borax.”. Many thanks for the reply and my apologies for not quite understanding. I really just want to get this right.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 11, 2020 3:06:56 GMT -5
I don't do burnishing as I didn't see it made any difference so nothing to offer on that . As for grit amounts I use 2 tablespoons for each of the 220, prepolish and polish stages as well as 2 tablespoons borax for each stage. To get the correct amount of water I fill the the bowl (already loaded with media and rocks) with water then flip the bowl over holding the lid on (open a bit) and drain the water out till only a trickle is coming out..that gives the right action for the grit and borax amounts I use. My clean out procedure is to fill the bowl with water to about 1 inch below top of center cone, add 2 tablespoons borax and run for about 30 minutes then rinse rocks and media real good under running water and scrub bowl, lid and hardware(wingnuts and washers) in preparation for next stage. I've only done 3 or 4 batches in the year I've had the UV10 and I'm happy with results but I will defer to more experienced UV10 advice that may follow... Hmmm interesting. See this is what worried me. I added 6 Tblsp of 120/220 and no Borax. I may have to try my next run with only 2 Tblsp of the 120/220 and 2 Tblsp of Borax and see what the difference is. Many thanks for the reply and help my friend.
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braat
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2016
Posts: 350
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Post by braat on Jan 11, 2020 9:42:47 GMT -5
I don't do burnishing as I didn't see it made any difference so nothing to offer on that . As for grit amounts I use 2 tablespoons for each of the 220, prepolish and polish stages as well as 2 tablespoons borax for each stage. To get the correct amount of water I fill the the bowl (already loaded with media and rocks) with water then flip the bowl over holding the lid on (open a bit) and drain the water out till only a trickle is coming out..that gives the right action for the grit and borax amounts I use. My clean out procedure is to fill the bowl with water to about 1 inch below top of center cone, add 2 tablespoons borax and run for about 30 minutes then rinse rocks and media real good under running water and scrub bowl, lid and hardware(wingnuts and washers) in preparation for next stage. I've only done 3 or 4 batches in the year I've had the UV10 and I'm happy with results but I will defer to more experienced UV10 advice that may follow... Hmmm interesting. See this is what worried me. I added 6 Tblsp of 120/220 and no Borax. I may have to try my next run with only 2 Tblsp of the 120/220 and 2 Tblsp of Borax and see what the difference is. Many thanks for the reply and help my friend. I took the 6 tablespoons in the video as part sales pitch, part erring on the side of safety (success wise). I'm as cheap as the next person and, like you, found others use less than what the video says and it's working so I'm sticking with it! Forgot to say... be mentally ready for x amount of tiny black plastic bowl filings floating on top during clean outs. Freaked me out when I first saw but have come to accept/realize its part of the process...at least the way I'm doing it...
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jan 11, 2020 11:59:04 GMT -5
Cleaning, when ready, after each cycle is more of a personal preference, what works best for you.......I've tried the "dish soap" route but prefer adding a tble spoon or two of Borax detergent at the end of each cycle, let run for an hour or so, then rinse and scrub the stones again with Borax....even after polishing stages........Just a tip I got here and from a buddy of mine who has been at this many years. So if I’m understanding you correctly here, you are adding a Tbsp or 2 of Borax into the slurry at the end of the stage and letting it run for an hour or so and then emptying the barrel into a colander and rinsing the rocks and ceramics. Then you’re adding them back to a cleaned barrel and adding water and borax again and running them for how long? And if so, how much water are you adding this time? I’m kind of lost and not understanding the part where you say, “then rinse and scrub the stones again with Borax.”. Many thanks for the reply and my apologies for not quite understanding. I really just want to get this right. Once Iv'e run the Borax in the vibe an hour or so as I'm completing that stage, I then remove the stones/slurry/media from the bowl into a colander, rinse and scrub again with Borax....rinse again with warm water and let dry.........just adding Borax to the vibe at the end of the stage will not completely clean the stones. It will take a brush and a little elbow grease to get the stones completely cleaned......I also clean the bowl(s) with Borax after each stage. As for grinding and polishing compound amounts, the standard answer is 1 table spoon per pound of stone/filler........but it really depends on the size and type of stone being processed......as well as the compound type. It's been my experience that the courser compounds can take more during the process than the finer compounds.........The courser breaks down the stone faster but also loose their volume faster. Thickeners help distribute the course compounds, which helps adhere to the stone and filler. The finer compounds distribute more quickly and since they are not removing stone at the same rate, tend to last longer during the cycle.........Like previously mentioned, no two slurry's develop in the same fashion. You'll find similar results with a given stone type (agate, quartz, jasper), but it really depends on other factors as well.......even heat transfer has an effect on the process.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 11, 2020 12:16:34 GMT -5
So if I’m understanding you correctly here, you are adding a Tbsp or 2 of Borax into the slurry at the end of the stage and letting it run for an hour or so and then emptying the barrel into a colander and rinsing the rocks and ceramics. Then you’re adding them back to a cleaned barrel and adding water and borax again and running them for how long? And if so, how much water are you adding this time? I’m kind of lost and not understanding the part where you say, “then rinse and scrub the stones again with Borax.”. Many thanks for the reply and my apologies for not quite understanding. I really just want to get this right. Once Iv'e run the Borax in the vibe an hour or so as I'm completing that stage, I then remove the stones/slurry/media from the bowl into a colander, rinse and scrub again with Borax....rinse again with warm water and let dry.........just adding Borax to the vibe at the end of the stage will not completely clean the stones. It will take a brush and a little elbow grease to get the stones completely cleaned......I also clean the bowl(s) with Borax after each stage. As for grinding and polishing compound amounts, the standard answer is 1 table spoon per pound of stone/filler........but it really depends on the size and type of stone being processed......as well as the compound type. It's been my experience that the courser compounds can take more during the process than the finer compounds.........The courser breaks down the stone faster but also loose their volume faster. Thickeners help distribute the course compounds, which helps adhere to the stone and filler. The finer compounds distribute more quickly and since they are not removing stone at the same rate, tend to last longer during the cycle.........Like previously mentioned, no two slurry's develop in the same fashion. You'll find similar results with a given stone type (agate, quartz, jasper), but it really depends on other factors as well.......even heat transfer has an effect on the process. Got it now. Many thanks for the clarification. Checked them this morning and it was at a thick stand still, so added more water to get it rolling again. I’m really thinking the 6Tbsp was way to much. Seems to be really thick, but the slurry is sticking and the rocks are moving nicely again, now that I added some more water. It seems to really be eating up my rocks as well, so I think next time I’ll try 2 Tbsp 120/220 and 2 Tbsp of Borax to see the difference and how that goes.
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Jan 11, 2020 19:42:23 GMT -5
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