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Post by rockjunquie on Mar 7, 2021 14:48:04 GMT -5
I hope you just dropped the mic and walked from the room. LOL!!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 8, 2021 6:06:25 GMT -5
I hope you just dropped the mic and walked from the room. LOL!!
RWA3006 truly slam dunked it Tela !
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 8, 2021 6:16:47 GMT -5
We quickly out grew that monster tumbler !! Some one is doing a lot of shooting ! Awesome machine. Did you build it ? RWA3006 why don't you fill one barrel 3/4 full of rocks and see how she rolls. Check to see if shafts deflect/traction/etc. The rocks may be heavier than the casings, don't know. Barrel rpm is another thing to check. Some metal tumblers roll faster than rock tumblers. Judging from the color those appear to be 6 inch pipe. They appear to be SDR 35 drainage PVC pipe. Can you measure OD ID and wall thickness ?
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Post by toiv0 on Mar 8, 2021 7:00:35 GMT -5
What’s the reduction on the gearbox? Then it looks like it’s stepped back up about 3 to one. So what is final rpm on the shafts an the barrels.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 8, 2021 7:58:53 GMT -5
jamesp Yes, I built it about six years ago when I began a commercial ammo loading enterprise. I'm now loading about 1.2 million rounds a month and the tumbler can't even come close to doing what a Mr Deburr can do so I mothballed it and it's now buried in a shed. Those are 8" barrels and I assure you there will be no significant deflection with rocks in them. I put high grade material into the project and in spite of the svelte frame it's built stout. I always tend to go overkill. Billy, if I remember correctly it's RPM is somewhere around 50, but I can't remember for sure. I'll probably have to tune it when I get it going. It did a great job on the brass but it's capacity was too low and it was a pain to load and unload the barrels on such a high volume. Once I get my shop finished I'll get another Mr Deburr and I think that will open new horizons in the rock tumbling game. You can get them on the used market for affordable prices and you only need to have a concrete floor to bolt them down to for stability.
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standles
spending too much on rocks
Well all I got was a rock ... Cool!
Member since February 2021
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Post by standles on Mar 8, 2021 8:38:31 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 8, 2021 8:40:31 GMT -5
I can't wait to see these in action RWA3006. Fine machines there. Will you be tumbling dino you-know-what in them lol ?
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 8, 2021 9:09:30 GMT -5
The reason I mentioned SDR 35 pipe is because it is a harder PVC and thinner wall that wears out fast RWA3006. There are other blue/green types of PVC pipe that are heavy wall and made out of longer lasting grades of PVC. 30 and 46 grit SiC wore these SDR 35 barrels out in 2 to 3 months. silicon carbide never fails to amaze DR-18 is a blue colored heavy wall PVC pipe used for municipal water mains. It will last a lifetime rolling rocks in coarse silicon carbide. 8" has about a 3/4" wall thickness, the 8" SDR 35 should be about a 1/4" wall.
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agatemaggot
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Post by agatemaggot on Mar 8, 2021 9:24:43 GMT -5
How is that bowl shaped tumbler loaded ? , it looks to be completely welded shut ? .
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 8, 2021 9:44:29 GMT -5
The reason I mentioned SDR 35 pipe is because it is a harder PVC and thinner wall that wears out fast RWA3006. There are other blue/green types of PVC pipe that are heavy wall and made out of longer lasting grades of PVC. 30 and 46 grit SiC wore these SDR 35 barrels out in 2 to 3 months. silicon carbide never fails to amaze DR-18 is a blue colored heavy wall PVC pipe used for municipal water mains. It will last a lifetime rolling rocks in coarse silicon carbide. 8" has about a 3/4" wall thickness, the 8" SDR 35 should be about a 1/4" wall. I'm sure I'll have to upgrade the barrels to materials you've found to be superior. I built these before I got enlightened by what you've found.
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 8, 2021 9:48:30 GMT -5
How is that bowl shaped tumbler loaded ? , it looks to be completely welded shut ? . It's loaded through the flat shute in the front and when I pull a gate open it self empties. I use it as a dryer and final burnisher for brass.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Mar 8, 2021 10:00:53 GMT -5
Will you use the industrial vibe for rocks RWA3006 ? and is it adjustable ?
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Post by Bob on Mar 8, 2021 10:54:40 GMT -5
I have been trying in my mind for almost a year to figure out how to build a prototype barrel for my idea. My idea takes the interior chamber of the barrel through the same 3D motion as the one shown, but will do it on the conventional 2-shafted base w/o first having to change the driven shafts from cylinders to cones. Not only that, but my idea can be an adapter to conventional radially-concentric barrels. Almost every night when I lay down to sleep this challenge is what I fall asleep working on in my mind. I finally may have solved a way to make it using a laser beam to guide my cutting. What I really need is a fixed laser beam that can cut a rotating rubber object up to 1" thick. Or a continuous wire saw. Once it took me 11 years to solve an engineering problem by falling asleep with it on my mind. But it worked that time and maybe it might work again. I can say that Viking had some heavy hitter engineers. I own 2 of their machines, the funky rotary and their vibe. Their vibe is engineered using a lot of vibration analysis mathematics and expensive components on par with large industrial tub vibes. Vibration is all about mathematics and a little bit of firing off the hip or guess work. I too am an mech.engineer but not trained in the disciplines required to design such a vibe. A better word is unqualified. A good vibration analysis engineer could create a vibe with measured outcomes like acceleration/velocity/frequency/mass/input excitation/etc to best do the job. Due to the amount of variables it would likely be the only way to do the job. So, I would assume the 6 sided complicated rotary probably has a similar level of mechanical technology applied to it also. Factors like slump technology and angular motion is also hard core mechanical engineering type mathematics and properties that could be applied to such a barrel. I do have enough knowledge to know the barrel design is likely much less of a mathematical/engineering challenge. Likely or maybe...it just depends on what type technology was used. My thoughts are to duplicate the Viking rotary verbatim but on a larger scale. Basically plagiarize the design lol. Why not, it appears some serious engineering has been applied to it. 10 or 11 gauge steel, a plasma cutter and a welder would do the job. It would be nice to use a 3-dim scanner to get the dimensions and crazy angles to cut the proportionately larger parts out with. And set the angles for welding the monster. Would prefer to cut 6 pieces of steel representing the six sides and fold the angles and then weld the six sides together. So a 3 dim scanner and cad cam software. I still believe sheer speed, coarsest grit, round barrel, and best performing slurry is the fastest route to shaping rocks in step 1. Hex type shapes simply do not react well to high rotational speeds due to the violent impacts created. Including the Viking barrel. 6" to 8" round barrels can be run super fast like 80 to 100 rpm if slurry viscosity is tuned properly. So much simpler too. I'm not an ME, but I come from a family of them and was an ME major before changing about halfway through. My Lortone 20 and 40lb metal barrels are hexagonal. Lortone rubber 6lb and 12lb rubber barrels are decagonal. I have wondered about the pros and cons of barrel cross-sectional geometry. Years ago, it seems I read a paper published by Covington Engr that mentioned that they compared those and other polygonal barrels with a round one and that the round one worked better. I don't remember what better was in that paper. For me, I suppose better would be if it accomplished say in 6 days what a polygon could do in 7 days, so better would be faster IF no downside. If memory serves, Cov builds some type of flipper or bumper into the sides of their round barrels to--I guess--help disturb the rocks. The Viking barrel is indeed interesting and the cutting would need to be skillful. A few years ago, I tested a lot of RPM ranges and fine-tuned with my pulleys. I ended up between 15 and 20 RPM to prevent damage on my big barrels. Are you saying that switching from a polygonal barrel to a round barrel allows one to speed up the RPM a lot, yet still get good grinding and little impact damage? 80-100 RPM amazes me to even think about! I have really wondered about nothing but a round barrel. I can't help but visualize that a lot of sliding might take place inside. But apparently it doesn't happen because so many people seem to do fine with homemade round barrels. It's possible that the rock size mix could affect what happens too. When I have a cantaloupe or larger rock in my 40lb barrel, there were times that it came close to knocking the barrel off the shafts when it flipped. This increased shaft cover wear too. So I increased the intershaft distance by 1/2" and it's fine now. I've wondered if the barrel was round would that rock ever flip. At my low RPMs, maybe maybe not. At 80-100 RPM, I wonder if it would be almost continually "airborne"?!
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Mar 8, 2021 11:37:04 GMT -5
Will you use the industrial vibe for rocks RWA3006 ? and is it adjustable ? I plan to give it a shot on rocks. Mine aren't adjustable except for how you load them. The newer models might have a frequency adjustment, I'll have to check. I can load them with the most dirty range brass and it only takes 5 minutes to finish. I only add water and detergent, no abrasives, ceramics or pins needed. The circular vibe is used to dry the brass and burnish. I use corn cob media and it takes about 5 minutes to finish.
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