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Post by stardiamond on Sept 6, 2022 12:08:42 GMT -5
I've never considered it because of the payback length. With the grid breaking down 3 times in the last 2 days and planned fire prevention outages, I am considering it. Advice?
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 6, 2022 12:56:34 GMT -5
If you want it for a backup, make sure you are looking at a system that will work. A normal grid tied system shuts down if you have a blackout to prevent your power from injuring line workers. In order to have a backup you need batteries and a disconnect. A lot of electric utilities will subsidize a system with batteries if you pull your power from them during peak time. Absolutely do not do a leased system.
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 6, 2022 13:01:38 GMT -5
Good advice. I was not interested in leasing. I called one company and they did a satellite picture of my roof and it showed it 3/4 in shade, so not a good candidate for solar. I do know the picture is not accurate because I grow rose bushes and I know where the sun is and for how long. I have an appointment in a week.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,773
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 6, 2022 14:44:59 GMT -5
I had solar in SoCal (SCE). The cost/payout turned out to be nothing short of ridiculous. Had plenty of sunshine and good solar exposure but I still had fairly high SCE bills. It just didn't make economic sense to me.
For back-up I'd consider a whole-house generator but in CA even that may not be a great idea because of the current war on natural gas. I see in today's news the Sahara Club along with other so-called "environmental" outfits are demanding a national ban on natural gas in the middle of an energy crisis! I'm sure Newsom will be among the first to endorse it.
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Post by HankRocks on Sept 6, 2022 16:07:59 GMT -5
I had solar in SoCal (SCE). The cost/payout turned out to be nothing short of ridiculous. Had plenty of sunshine and good solar exposure but I still had fairly high SCE bills. It just didn't make economic sense to me. For back-up I'd consider a whole-house generator but in CA even that may not be a great idea because of the current war on natural gas. I see in today's news the Sahara Club along with other so-called "environmental" outfits are demanding a national ban on natural gas in the middle of an energy crisis! I'm sure Newsom will be among the first to endorse it. Every time I hear these discussions this movie quote pops in my head! "we will all go live in the caves"
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,773
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Post by gemfeller on Sept 6, 2022 16:26:54 GMT -5
HankRocks I think that's what our "betters" have in mind for us "unwashed."
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,095
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Post by stefan on Sept 6, 2022 18:04:35 GMT -5
I have propane fired whole house back up gen. Locally they won't let solar run off grid (you have to be tied to the grid and you get your power cut when there is an outage) unless you do a "homemade" system. The thing that cracks me up in California is the way they want to go to all electric cars, yet their grid can't even handle the current load on it.
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Post by vegasjames on Sept 6, 2022 18:34:37 GMT -5
If you are buying the system yourself then the things to keep in mind that it takes at least 10 years to break even on the cost of the system. Then the gains will be very minimal, and you do have to put up a deposit, at least here, to the power company in case their linemen are injured because your power was not turned off during work.
Now there are some tax credits that will help offset the cost of purchase, but personally I still do not see it being worth it yet for various reasons. As technology continues to improve, outputs will increase and costs will drop. So personally I would wait.
I feel the same way about hybrid cars and electric cars. For instance, there were tax incentives when the hybrids came out, but that was offset and then some by the cost of the battery replacement that had to be done around every 6 years, and the cost at the time was $10,000. And that is just one of numerous issues with the hybrids and electric cars. Technology really needs to improve drastically on these. Ironically, the technology was better and they went backward. Back in the 70s, Mother Earth News had plans for you to build your own hybrid using a lawnmower engine to power the generator to run the electric wheels. They were getting 100 miles per gallon. With today's hybrids they were celebrating at finally getting the cars to 42 miles per gallon.
And the average lifespan of the solar panels is only 25 years, then there will be the cost of removal and replacement.
If you go with the companies that offer to install the solar for free, then there are issues when it comes to selling the house. And they still own the panels and will sell you back the electricity being generated by the panels they installed on your house.
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 6, 2022 19:25:07 GMT -5
4th power outage in 48 hours. Unplanned, equipment can't take the heat. I have avoided considering solar for the reasons you mentioned. My electricity bill continues to increase. I'm 77 so 25 years is not a consideration. From the research I've done, solar can add value to when the house is sold so I don't need to wait 10 years. I'm a numbers guy so I need to proceed to get the information.
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Post by vegasjames on Sept 6, 2022 19:50:21 GMT -5
4th power outage in 48 hours. Unplanned, equipment can't take the heat. I have avoided considering solar for the reasons you mentioned. My electricity bill continues to increase. I'm 77 so 25 years is not a consideration. From the research I've done, solar can add value to when the house is sold so I don't need to wait 10 years. I'm a numbers guy so I need to proceed to get the information. There may be a value increase in cases where people paid for the solar panels outright. What I am talking about is when people go with the companies who offer "free" solar panel installation. The company still owns those solar panels even if the house is sold, which can lead to problems when the house goes up for sale. I cannot recall the exact details, but it was a realtor who was telling me about this. So if you are not planning on paying for the panels outright, then I suggest you talk to a few realtors about this issue.
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 6, 2022 19:59:00 GMT -5
My plan is to pay for them outright, cash if it makes sense. Every time I refinanced my house, I took cash out and put into a bank account for future work on the house. That money is drawing no interest. Inflation had been low and I didn't want to take on any risk.
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
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Post by Tommy on Sept 6, 2022 20:00:09 GMT -5
stardiamond I still get Nixle messages from your area from my years in Pleasant Hill and I was wondering how you were faring so this sums it up. Anecdotally and no real advice to offer I will say that Eva and I have south facing solar on our house in Napa and it's a Godsend. Our PG&E bills are minuscule (under $50) even running our central air all day. I watch the output meter and have determined that after about 7pm (during the long summer days) the wattage being generated is likely exceeded by the AC unit so we are pretty careful to make sure to get the house closed up and cold then we open up all the windows and take advantage of Napa's natural AC - the marine air coming off the top of the bay. That being said, we do not have batteries and so if the grid goes down we go down and it does concern us greatly. Yesterday afternoon while it was 112F in Napa our power went out for a couple of hours between 2 and 4pm and that was it. I was working but Eva was home but at that point we had created indoor icicles so it never got warmer than mid 70's before the power came back on. I've looked into batteries several times and for our house the cost to install batteries would run roughly $25k so we've decided that it's not worth it. We may live to regret that decision if the power goes out for an extended period of time.
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 6, 2022 20:17:25 GMT -5
I get messages from PG&E regarding batteries. How long they supply power and electricity cost were not attractive. There is a question if my exposure is adequate, how much for the installation and how much savings off my electrical usage.
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Post by stardiamond on Sept 8, 2022 16:10:43 GMT -5
I went shopping at Costco yesterday and someone was offering solar, so I made an appointment. I thought it was for purchasing equipment but it was for purchasing electricity. The monthly cost was about $200 a month more than I currently pay and a 25 year, $66,000 obligation. Given the rate annual rate increases without knowing the value of a $66,000 investment in 25 years, the cost may or not be a good value. At least, I have a number to compare against when purchasing the equipment.
If I sold the house without the prepaid plan and the new owner was not interested in assuming the arrangement, I would need to pay off the remaining part of the 25 year obligation.
I thought what the decision to be made was an investment that would be paid for over so many years by electricity cost savings. The more the rates go up, the faster the pay off. I was quoted a high cost of battery replacement and that batteries need to be replaced at 10 years. I won't know an actual cost until I get some other offers. I would also need to talk to a realtor to get the value of prepaid electricity. This is not buying a new car vs fixing an old one.
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