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Post by 1dave on Oct 6, 2022 18:45:47 GMT -5
Batteries in Electric cars that were flooded are catching on fire.
When batteries recharge at the wrong rate they re-crystalize and short out.
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Post by RickB on Oct 6, 2022 18:51:04 GMT -5
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Post by mohs on Oct 6, 2022 19:25:20 GMT -5
Decades ago on 1 of my many moves, in my 1971 Dodge window van,loaded down, pulling U-Haul trailer, coming out of Phoenix, ascending I-17 on early cold late December morn, near Black Canyon city, the van caught fire! Now I did realize it. Butte the person who was moving w/ mohs, & following me in another vehicle came screaming on the walkie talkie PULL OVER PULL OVER
Remarkable that there was a large right hand pull out areas on that high grade mountain climbing hiway. Moment I came to smooth ha rolling stop the cab (as the inside of the van) filled with smoke. Immediately I got the sleeping passenger out of the vehicle ! Then somehow I got the cowl loose from the engine & heaved it aside Mistake! Minute the oxygen hit small flame
Maker Flash Point & Flames ! [/i] I wouldn't say my life flashed before my eyes Butte a few seconds did. see I was busy at the moment Well to make a long story longer … (moral and purpose for posting this } is about electrical fires ! Try to disconnect your battery cable if ya can! ---safely and w/ poise--- If your vehicle catches fire! Because a shorting electrical fire Is the worse kind! And carry fire extinguisher !
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Post by mohs on Oct 6, 2022 21:15:07 GMT -5
yo jase jasoninsd really appreaciate the likes especially on the architectural old man post haha cool care hope your thinking of a Q trip sure would be rocking soon Ed
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 6, 2022 21:24:04 GMT -5
yo jase jasoninsd really appreaciate the likes especially on the architectural old man post haha cool care hope your thinking of a Q trip sure would be rocking soon Ed You know...I try to stay positive...mohstly! A Q-trip is definitely a dream...don't know if it'll happen this year...but if I can swing it I really want to go! After your story, how apropos is this:
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Post by mohs on Oct 6, 2022 21:32:56 GMT -5
I like
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,339
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Post by quartz on Oct 6, 2022 23:35:16 GMT -5
I saw a pickup pulling a trailer with a car on it come to a stop across the road from where I was. Smoke was trailing pretty heavily out of the hauled car. A guy bailed out of the pickup, said "I'll get it", grabbed a splitting maul from the pickup bed, opened the hood on the car and bashed the battery. "O.K. now" he said to the passenger, got back in the pickup and drove away.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 7, 2022 1:05:35 GMT -5
Electric car battery fires are an issue like any fire, but the numbers say you are many times more likely to have a fire in a conventional fuel vehicle. The reason those fires are so spectacular is the batteries in Tesla cars and many other plug in cars make up the floor, they burn hot, and the heat and flames rise.
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 7, 2022 3:40:25 GMT -5
It should be noted that the lithium batteries to power EVs cannot be put out with water. Lithium metal is a very reactive alkali metal and will react with water forming very flammable and explosive hydrogen gas that burns extremely hot.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 7, 2022 10:14:05 GMT -5
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brybry
Cave Dweller
Enter your message here...
Member since October 2021
Posts: 1,199
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Post by brybry on Oct 7, 2022 13:23:44 GMT -5
That's the part they fail to mention when pushing the green agenda. Going to have to go a foam spray that won't react to the battery internals
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 7, 2022 17:33:55 GMT -5
The headline is misleading. The water does not extinguish the fire. All the water can do to help is to suppress the flames some just like they do with oil rig fires. Again, the lithium s highly reactive with water forming hydrogen gas, which intensifies the heat of the fire. So the water will not extinguish the fire. The fire extinguishes itself when the source of the fire is all used up. They eve point this fact out further down in the article where they wrote "A lithium battery fire continues until all energy is spent. “We’re basically fighting energy release,” Wilbourn said."
Another issue is the dangerous byproduct. The reaction of water on alkali metals is caustic hyroxides. In this case, lithium hydroxide. This stuff is highly corrosive and you do not want this contacting any of your tissues. This is very similar to getting Drano (potassium hydroxide) or Red Devil Lye (sodium hydroxide) on your skin.
I have a pound of potassium metal, which has to be kept under mineral oil to prevent it from reacting with moisture in the air or otherwise getting wet. If I take a very small sliver of the metal and put it on water in a bowl the metal will dance across the water with a beautiful purple flame as it releases hydrogen gas with such heat that it actually ignites the hydrogen in the process. Larger pieces will explode. As an example, here is a video of a pound of sodium metal, another alkaline metal, being thrown in to a river. Potassium metal is more reactive than sodium metal, and the lithium metal of these batteries is more reactive than potassium metal.
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Post by mohs on Oct 7, 2022 18:32:42 GMT -5
not sure if this started electrically or gasoline perhaps the black smoke would tell the tale
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 7, 2022 19:15:26 GMT -5
not sure if this started electrically or gasoline perhaps the black smoke would tell the tale If that is a car fire then no telling by smoke. All the burning plastic and rubber in a car fire makes the smoke really black.
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Post by mohs on Oct 7, 2022 21:05:59 GMT -5
just happend to be up on the butte sunsetting when that auto crash occurred saw it on later news -not good
suppose in some 3-D scientific way w/ spectography, perhaps
could tell if the black smoke is predominantly petrol based or free of it ,,,mostly or maybe not
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Oct 7, 2022 21:13:06 GMT -5
The headline is misleading. The water does not extinguish the fire. All the water can do to help is to suppress the flames some just like they do with oil rig fires. Again, the lithium s highly reactive with water forming hydrogen gas, which intensifies the heat of the fire. So the water will not extinguish the fire. The fire extinguishes itself when the source of the fire is all used up. They eve point this fact out further down in the article where they wrote "A lithium battery fire continues until all energy is spent. “We’re basically fighting energy release,” Wilbourn said."
Another issue is the dangerous byproduct. The reaction of water on alkali metals is caustic hyroxides. In this case, lithium hydroxide. This stuff is highly corrosive and you do not want this contacting any of your tissues. This is very similar to getting Drano (potassium hydroxide) or Red Devil Lye (sodium hydroxide) on your skin.
I have a pound of potassium metal, which has to be kept under mineral oil to prevent it from reacting with moisture in the air or otherwise getting wet. If I take a very small sliver of the metal and put it on water in a bowl the metal will dance across the water with a beautiful purple flame as it releases hydrogen gas with such heat that it actually ignites the hydrogen in the process. Larger pieces will explode. As an example, here is a video of a pound of sodium metal, another alkaline metal, being thrown in to a river. Potassium metal is more reactive than sodium metal, and the lithium metal of these batteries is more reactive than potassium metal.
I'm sure you are correct, but that is how fire departments are trying to put out the fires on those batteries. I saw a fire dept. official on the news today in Florida saying the exact same thing. They use water. They are concerned about the EVs that have been underwater because they've been catching on fire all over the place. He said if they are not near anything else that can catch fire, they just let them burn. They're warning people who have them to make sure they're not near the house or other cars that can also catch fire. I think the water is to help protect other property and not to specifically put out those battery fires, because obviously it doesn't work.
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Post by mohs on Oct 7, 2022 21:48:24 GMT -5
When I worked in corporate mainframe data tape library center They used Halon for fire suppression As it explained to me the halon deprives the area of oxygen Helping to extinguish the fire.. So in enclosed area it was real necessary for human and other living beings to evacuate because of the lack if oxygen Maybe like a canary in a gold mine ? Which reminds I have a real long spooky story to tell about working in huge tape library. My two other co-workers left for lunch leaving me to man the library, Someone as got to be present 24/7, Mohs on the job. I got a call for a tape mount It happened to be way down a long aisle To the very back of the building. About 75 yards Just as turned at the end of the aisle at the back wall of the building BAM!
There was elongated human body laying on the floor! I was at the head end. This person had on NY Yankee's baseball cap. As I approached cautiously and just enough to look over the bill of his cap I noticed his arms were across his chest and his hands were DUCT TAPE together!!! Just as I was trying to process this strange sight the FIRE ALARM WENT OFF
Big time noise and flashing lights Mohs as entered the Twilight ZONE!!! Geez I made toward the exit. The clean up lady was petrified. I’m like FIRE! Go! Butte then I realized she no habla da Inglee Si- so I gohs; Pyer! Pyer !! Vamojs,,,, Vamojs,,,,,
Off we went. As we were exiting -the firemen were entering! I told them there is a dead body in Volser Section LX666999 They thanked me and told me to keep moving… Which I did…. True true story Well the cleaning crew lady may have been bit of an exaggeration Butte not by to much Mostly
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 8, 2022 0:36:28 GMT -5
The headline is misleading. The water does not extinguish the fire. All the water can do to help is to suppress the flames some just like they do with oil rig fires. Again, the lithium s highly reactive with water forming hydrogen gas, which intensifies the heat of the fire. So the water will not extinguish the fire. The fire extinguishes itself when the source of the fire is all used up. They eve point this fact out further down in the article where they wrote "A lithium battery fire continues until all energy is spent. “We’re basically fighting energy release,” Wilbourn said."
Another issue is the dangerous byproduct. The reaction of water on alkali metals is caustic hyroxides. In this case, lithium hydroxide. This stuff is highly corrosive and you do not want this contacting any of your tissues. This is very similar to getting Drano (potassium hydroxide) or Red Devil Lye (sodium hydroxide) on your skin.
I have a pound of potassium metal, which has to be kept under mineral oil to prevent it from reacting with moisture in the air or otherwise getting wet. If I take a very small sliver of the metal and put it on water in a bowl the metal will dance across the water with a beautiful purple flame as it releases hydrogen gas with such heat that it actually ignites the hydrogen in the process. Larger pieces will explode. As an example, here is a video of a pound of sodium metal, another alkaline metal, being thrown in to a river. Potassium metal is more reactive than sodium metal, and the lithium metal of these batteries is more reactive than potassium metal.
I'm sure you are correct, but that is how fire departments are trying to put out the fires on those batteries. I saw a fire dept. official on the news today in Florida saying the exact same thing. They use water. They are concerned about the EVs that have been underwater because they've been catching on fire all over the place. He said if they are not near anything else that can catch fire, they just let them burn. They're warning people who have them to make sure they're not near the house or other cars that can also catch fire. I think the water is to help protect other property and not to specifically put out those battery fires, because obviously it doesn't work. All the water can do is suppress some of the heat, not extinguish the fire. The hydrogen released from the reaction with lithium metal then ignited burns at over 3,700F in air. So the water is not going to put this out and actually contributes to the fire. Keeping the water over the fire though will help suppress some of the heat until all the lithium is converted in to lithium hydroxide.
It is like I mentioned with the oil rig fires. They will spray water at the fire to suppress the heat, but the fire cannot be put out with the water. Instead they use explosives to suck up all the oxygen starving the fire of the oxygen it needs to burn.
Also similar to fires at the local magnesium plant here. When these magnesium fires occur, they burn way too hot to put out with water. They simply have to allow these fires to burn out on their own. Eventually the magnesium gets burnt up forming non-flammable magnesium oxide.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 8, 2022 19:46:33 GMT -5
Probably time for fire departments to move beyond the steam engines of suppressing fires with water only and join the rest of us with todays technology. Water is still there to cool things when needed, but not even correct for gasoline fires.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Oct 8, 2022 19:58:02 GMT -5
Probably time for fire departments to move beyond the steam engines of suppressing fires with water only and join the rest of us with todays technology. Water is still there to cool things when needed, but not even correct for gasoline fires. Have seen magnesium rims on vehicles (in an accident) burn like that, and take a long time to extinguish. Those dang metals.
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