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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 17, 2022 23:14:03 GMT -5
So, my trim and slab saws are both "tile saws" without a vise. I know I don't have the ability to cut consistent 1/8" thick slabs with my saws without "wedging" the cut. And I actually don't have any solid colored material that would be good for backing material. I'd like to start making some doublets. So...I'm reaching out to see if anyone has 1/8" slabs of material that can be used for backing material - that they'd be willing to sell or trade for. I'd be interested in different colors, but some kind of black material would be one I'd definitely be looking for. I have some Dino Bone that will need a clear quartz (I think that's what it is...) used to cap the top of the material versus a backing. If someone has any, I'd love to see what we can work out. If no one has any...or if someone else knows of a supplier online, please let me know. I'd love to see if a trade could be worked out...but I'm willing to cough up some cash if necessary.  |
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 0:36:51 GMT -5
I’m always surprised at the cost for the black stones, it seems most of it is too valuable for use as backing material lol! Australian black jade looked like great material for that purpose, but $40 a pound was the price I saw in 2014 at Tucson. I’m betting most gets carved, and the price is a lot higher nowadays if you can even find rough. Good basanite is still something a person can come by in estate sales and such, but the price at any given rock shop has always been shockingly high. I've tried looking online for a dealer...and I'm coming up with zilch...except for a website out of Canade (rubblerockandgem) that is selling black Basalt as a backing material for $13 a pound. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 1:11:31 GMT -5
Well I just learned something. I didn't realize Basanite is "a pure BASALT with no pitting/crystal pockets, crystal inclusions or voids".
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Post by parfive on Dec 18, 2022 1:38:01 GMT -5
Keep an eye out for black onyx, aka dyed Brazilian agate.
A few years ago, I snagged about a dozen slabs for eight bucks.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 18, 2022 2:21:15 GMT -5
Also black India agate. I got some from the living estate I was at a week ago, haven't cut any yet. I have basanite and some softer stuff called argyllite that is black as well, not sure for sure where it is. I also have a little man made quartz in chunks and thinner slabs.
If you want to PM me I can probably find you a sampler to get you started anyway from the stuff in the cabbing area. It will range from .100 thick to .150", I tend towards thinner with the black and a little thicker with the quartz.
Do you have a lap to get the surfaces flat? That really helps with backers and caps. I get nice flat parallel slabs in my saws, but they still look a lot better if they're a perfect match.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 18, 2022 2:48:10 GMT -5
I should have some ilmenite laying around here, which is solid black. Not slabbed though. Only other solid black I can think of that I have is magnetite. Will have to look around the yard and see what I all I have that is solid colors. What other solid colors are you looking for?
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Post by fernwood on Dec 18, 2022 5:44:15 GMT -5
Try looking for some black chert. That might work and should be low priced.
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Post by rockjunquie on Dec 18, 2022 9:09:18 GMT -5
BikerRandy used to use regular glass sheet in different colors.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 9:53:26 GMT -5
Keep an eye out for black onyx, aka dyed Brazilian agate. A few years ago, I snagged about a dozen slabs for eight bucks. Thanks Rich! Maybe I'm not searching the right terms...but I haven't been able to find a ton of info on backing material. Thanks for letting me know about this option! Also black India agate. I got some from the living estate I was at a week ago, haven't cut any yet. I have basanite and some softer stuff called argyllite that is black as well, not sure for sure where it is. I also have a little man made quartz in chunks and thinner slabs. If you want to PM me I can probably find you a sampler to get you started anyway from the stuff in the cabbing area. It will range from .100 thick to .150", I tend towards thinner with the black and a little thicker with the quartz. Do you have a lap to get the surfaces flat? That really helps with backers and caps. I get nice flat parallel slabs in my saws, but they still look a lot better if they're a perfect match. Thanks Lee!! Woot Woot! I'll shoot you a PM here in a little bit!! Thanks for letting me know of some optional material as well. I do have a flat lap (slant cabber) as well as a flat disk on the end of the arbor on the cabbing machine...so I should be able to work the pieces either way. That makes sense to go thinner on the black and thicker on the quartz. The backing doesn't really need to be thick by any means... I should have some ilmenite laying around here, which is solid black. Not slabbed though. Only other solid black I can think of that I have is magnetite. Will have to look around the yard and see what I all I have that is solid colors. What other solid colors are you looking for? Thanks James! Those could be some more optional materials. As far as what other specific colors...I have nothing in particular in mind. I was kind of wondering what colors people had out there. I do know there's a technique of using colored foil in between the backing and the main material...which adds an interesting perspective and options for colors. Try looking for some black chert. That might work and should be low priced. Thanks Beth!! Another great "affordable" option!! BikerRandy used to use regular glass sheet in different colors. Thanks Tela! It didn't occur to me to use actual glass! Duh!! I should go back through his threads and look at some of his stuff. Now that you mention him, I do remember seeing a bunch of his doublets quite awhile ago. Thanks!! |
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Post by victor1941 on Dec 18, 2022 9:59:32 GMT -5
Jasoninsd, if you don't find clear quartz I will provide you some that is 1/4" sheet material(slabs) cut from synthetic quartz boules. You can make it a trade.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 10:05:58 GMT -5
Jasoninsd, if you don't find clear quartz I will provide you some that is 1/4" sheet material(slabs) cut from synthetic quartz boules. You can make it a trade. Thank you so much Victor! I'd definitely like to take you up on that offer!! |
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 18, 2022 10:34:35 GMT -5
jasoninsd when cabbing backed stones using the top of the backing as reference, or for the bezel line for cabbing works good, the silver setting or wrapping wire will cover it in the finished piece.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 10:45:49 GMT -5
jasoninsd when cabbing backed stones using the top of the backing as reference, or for the bezel line for cabbing works good, the silver setting or wrapping wire will cover it in the finished piece. Thanks for this Lee! I've seen a couple ways using the top edge of the backing material as reference. If I remember correctly, BikerRandy would take the top stone clear down to the backing material on the edges. I've seen others done where it isn't clear down to the backing material. I suppose some of that has to do with the thickness of the backing material... I figured when I wrapped these, I'd allow the wire to create a definite "bezel" edge...as opposed to some wraps where the edge of the cab can be seen in places. |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Dec 18, 2022 11:26:16 GMT -5
I have some black jasper that I'll soon start to slice up for doublets. I'll check with you when I have some, Jason.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 11:42:25 GMT -5
I have some black jasper that I'll soon start to slice up for doublets. I'll check with you when I have some, Jason. Thank you SO much Gary! I remember hearing black jasper being used now that you mention it! (That's how my memory apparently works...I "remember" when someone brings something up again! LOL) jasoninsd roughly how many pounds of slabs are you looking for? I’ve seen great basanite for around five bucks a pound, with an 1/8” blade kerf you end up with maybe 40% of original weight in slabs if you don’t have giant end cuts. Considering that and saw time slab price at $20 a pound is probably a fair deal? I had no set idea on a specific weight per se. Can you ever have "too much" of anything rock related on hand? LOL - Obviously 100 pounds of slabs might be excessive...but a couple pounds in slabs wouldn't be a bad thing to have laying around. I don't think you're wrong about the $20 per pound for slabbed material being a fair price...especially when I know I don't have the ability to get consistent 1/8" (or so) slabs on my saws... |
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 12:31:28 GMT -5
I’ve got some old turquoise that is seam material someone backed using pieces of melted vinyl records. The melting was appropriate to conform to the outer surface of the rock, but it wouldn’t be necessary if you were to glue a slab to it. Probably close to the thickness you want, and very cheap lol I’m assuming natural stone might be a preference due to the stability, maybe the glue bond is susceptible to failure with other backing material due to thermal expansion/contraction issues? Anyhow I do have plenty of basanite and black jasper and a couple pound trade would be no problem. Also have some self collected red jasper with great color that I’m considering running slabs for backing material if you’re interested. OMG! The vinyl record was genius! Too bad I gave away all my old records! LOL I'd seriously take you up on the offer of the black material(s) as well as the red jasper. That would be killer!! I'd be cool trading or sending you cash. Whenever you pull some stuff together shoot me a PM, or call, or text me and we'll figure out what I owe ya!  |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 18, 2022 14:00:36 GMT -5
Back in the day, for black backing material, a fossilized wood material "Jet" was often used as backing for opal doublets and triplets. Jet was near the same hardness as opal so was a good choice. I used to see Jet rough pieces and thin slices all the time at shows but it doesn't seem to be nearly as common now.
For Turquoise 78 LP records were often used. They were a little thicker than the 33 LPs. Just glue a piece of a broken LP to a relatively flattened back of a piece of turquoise and grind the cabs pre-form shape. When JB Weld and Devcon became available those were used for backing as well. Especially for pitted or uneven back surfaces of turquoise. One would have to be careful using anything that heats the turquoise. Natural turquoise can loose it's color if gotten too hot. And any turquoise stabilized with resin doesn't like being heated too warm either.
For everything else black onyx, black nephrite and black basanite were the most commonly used black backing materials. Not sure how available it is these days but black Wyoming nephrite was fairly common and inexpensive back then. The Wyoming material had a beautiful fine grain as well.
These days as someone else mentioned black glass is sometimes used for backing. And clear sheet glass has been being used commercially as capping material on opal doublets and triplets made overseas since at least the 1980s. But most glass scratches more easily than quartz. So for ring stones or bracelet stones, IMO quartz is the better choice. Natural clear quartz is easy to find but you usually have to work around fractures, veils and other impurities. Large synthetic lab grown quartz boules are much cleaner and used to be fairly common at shows too. But I don't see those around much anymore. You can still find optical quartz (glass) rods though.
And I remember that there used to be a company which produced iridescent ammolite doublets using clear synthetic spinel for the caps. Spinel has a MOHS hardness of 8 so it is tougher than quartz and ideal for ring stones that are subjected to a lot of wear and abuse.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 14:19:12 GMT -5
Back in the day, for black backing material, a fossilized wood material "Jet" was often used as backing for opal doublets and triplets. Jet was near the same hardness as opal so was a good choice. I used to see Jet rough pieces and thin slices all the time at shows but it doesn't seem to be nearly as common now. For Turquoise 78 LP records were often used. They were a little thicker than the 33 LPs. Just glue a piece of a broken LP to a relatively flattened back of a piece of turquoise and grind the cabs pre-form shape. When JB Weld and Devcon became available those were used for backing as well. Especially for pitted or uneven back surfaces of turquoise. One would have to be careful using anything that heats the turquoise. Natural turquoise can loose it's color if gotten too hot. And any turquoise stabilized with resin doesn't like being heated too warm either. For everything else black onyx, black nephrite and black basanite were the most commonly used black backing materials. Not sure how available it is these days but black Wyoming nephrite was fairly common and inexpensive back then. The Wyoming material had a beautiful fine grain as well. These days as someone else mentioned black glass is sometimes used for backing. And clear sheet glass has been being used commercially as capping material on opal doublets and triplets made overseas since at least the 1980s. But most glass scratches more easily than quartz. So for ring stones or bracelet stones, IMO quartz is the better choice. Natural clear quartz is easy to find but you usually have to work around fractures, veils and other impurities. Large synthetic lab grown quartz boules are much cleaner and used to be fairly common at shows too. But I don't see those around much anymore. You can still find optical quartz (glass) rods though. And I remember that there used to be a company which produced iridescent ammolite doublets using clear synthetic spinel for the caps. Spinel has a MOHS hardness of 8 so it is tougher than quartz and ideal for ring stones that are subjected to a lot of wear and abuse. Thank you SO much for chiming in!! I loved being able to read the "history" like this! Seriously, thank you so much for taking the time to post this!! |
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,980
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Post by khara on Dec 18, 2022 14:19:50 GMT -5
Interesting topic Jason! I have it in mind to play with some doublets too at some point. I’ve found a handful of gorgeous but too thin slabs in my stash. I recently cut a cab that was already prepped as a doublet. Mahogany obsidian with I believe man made quartz or glass on top. It cut well and I did notice that the transition line would be a good spot for the bezel setting. If you strike out on finding black material, I have LP’s! 🤓 Looking forward to seeing your work!
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 18, 2022 14:33:12 GMT -5
Interesting topic Jason! I have it in mind to play with some doublets too at some point. I’ve found a handful of gorgeous but too thin slabs in my stash. I recently cut a cab that was already prepped as a doublet. Mahogany obsidian with I believe man made quartz or glass on top. It cut well and I did notice that the transition line would be a good spot for the bezel setting. If you strike out on finding black material, I have LP’s! 🤓 Looking forward to seeing your work! I've seen "some" doublets posted in the past couple years, but not as many as there used to be. I've been putting off learning how to do them for quite some time. I figured it was about time to try something new again! LOL - I'll have to make sure I keep a note about the LPs! LOL |
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