vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 23, 2022 23:47:18 GMT -5
So I am gonna be able to get a Tile Saw, but it brings me to a couple of questions. I can get a 4 in saw and blade pretty reasonable, but what would be the biggest rock I could cut diameter wise with a 4 in tile saw?
Same Question, What would be the biggest rock I could cut on a 7in Tile saw?
Ill be honest, I will likely never be able to afford an actual slab saw or actual trim saw, so this is what I will have to work with. I just want to know what the biggest rocks i can cut would be so i can make an informed choice. I look at it like this, even if I cant slab big rocks, I can always buy Pre-cut slabs from Big rocks and use the tile saw to trim them down into shapes to tumble.
So what would be the Max Diameter rocks I could cut on both a 4in tile saw and a 7 in tile saw?
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 0:01:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I am super excited to be able to cut ANY rocks, Instead of just tryin to break them with a hammer and chistel lol.
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hypodactylus
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 234
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Post by hypodactylus on Dec 24, 2022 1:16:25 GMT -5
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 1:36:50 GMT -5
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 2:28:22 GMT -5
Jugglerguy thoughts? Tips? Suggestions? That goes for everyone else as well.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 24, 2022 2:48:08 GMT -5
The first saw you linked shows: Depth of Cut at 90 Deg. : 1-3/8" The second saw you linked shows: ...up to 3/4 in. thick. Both of those were taken from the product descriptions on those web pages.  |
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 2:57:48 GMT -5
The first saw you linked shows: Depth of Cut at 90 Deg. : 1-3/8" The second saw you linked shows: ...up to 3/4 in. thick. Both of those were taken from the product descriptions on those web pages. You will have to Forgive me, but I am not mister fix it or at all mechanically inclined, does that mean that is the biggest they can cut or is that the biggest they can cut with the water sheild on the blade? This may sound dumb, but shouldnt you at least have access to Half the blade when cutting? I mean I get that you wont get the full diameter sticking up, but shouldnt at least close to half of it be sticking up? Like if its a 7 in blade shouldnt at least 3in at the mininum be sticking up? Im not a tools guy, Im a Kitchen gadgets guy so tools like this are very new to me and I dont fully understand what all the numbers mean. I do get that a 7 in blade means total diameter of 7 inches but above that I am totally lost jasoninsd Break it down for me like im a mentally handicapped child please. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 24, 2022 3:05:47 GMT -5
The first saw you linked shows: Depth of Cut at 90 Deg. : 1-3/8" The second saw you linked shows: ...up to 3/4 in. thick. Both of those were taken from the product descriptions on those web pages. You will have to Forgive me, but I am not mister fix it or at all mechanically inclined, does that mean that is the biggest they can cut or is that the biggest they can cut with the water sheild on the blade? This may sound dumb, but shouldnt you at least have access to Half the blade when cutting? I mean I get that you wont get the full diameter sticking up, but shouldnt at least close to half of it be sticking up? Like if its a 7 in blade shouldnt at least 3in at the mininum be sticking up? Im not a tools guy, Im a Kitchen gadgets guy so tools like this are very new to me and I dont fully understand what all the numbers mean. I do get that a 7 in blade means total diameter of 7 inches but above that I am totally lost jasoninsd Break it down for me like im a mentally handicapped child please. In the simplest terms, the "depth of cut" is telling you the measurement of the amount of blade (at the peak of the curve of the blade) sticking up above the table. The arbor is below the table top...so you can't get the full 3.5" you're thinking. The arbor is 5/8"...so you lose 5/16" off the 3.5" right off the bat...then the other amount of loss is due to how far the arbor is below the surface of the table. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 24, 2022 3:10:27 GMT -5
vance71975 - So to answer your other question...yes...those figures I gave for the depth of cut is the MAXIMUM size rock that can be cut without rotating the rock. The maximum size rocks you can cut by ROTATING the rock while cutting them are: 2.75" on the first 1.5" on the second That's "doubling" the depth of cut because you'd be rotating the rock to cut the "other half". You will NOT get clean cuts doing this...period. They will nearly ALWAYS be skewed cuts...
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 3:17:53 GMT -5
You will have to Forgive me, but I am not mister fix it or at all mechanically inclined, does that mean that is the biggest they can cut or is that the biggest they can cut with the water sheild on the blade? This may sound dumb, but shouldnt you at least have access to Half the blade when cutting? I mean I get that you wont get the full diameter sticking up, but shouldnt at least close to half of it be sticking up? Like if its a 7 in blade shouldnt at least 3in at the mininum be sticking up? Im not a tools guy, Im a Kitchen gadgets guy so tools like this are very new to me and I dont fully understand what all the numbers mean. I do get that a 7 in blade means total diameter of 7 inches but above that I am totally lost jasoninsd Break it down for me like im a mentally handicapped child please. In the simplest terms, the "depth of cut" is telling you the measurement of the amount of blade (at the peak of the curve of the blade) sticking up above the table. The arbor is below the table top...so you can't get the full 3.5" you're thinking. The arbor is 5/8"...so you lose 5/16" off the 3.5" right off the bat...then the other amount of loss is due to how far the arbor is below the surface of the table. So on a 7 in blade, only 1-3/8" of the blade is sticking up? Is it just me or does that seem like a very poor design? Like I get with the Arbor you wont get the full 3.5 in sticking up, but you should get at least 2 3/4 to 3 in sticking up shouldnt you? Like what did then do put an 1 1/2 in thick deck on it? Like I am not argueing with you bro, just sayin that sounds very poorly designed. |
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 24, 2022 3:20:12 GMT -5
I recommend looking for a used, at least 10 inch tile saw. The amount of blade that is actually exposed above the surface of the table with a 4 inch or 7 inch saw is usually maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Can work as a trim saw, but not really a slab saw.
A 10 inch saw does a pretty good job once you get the hang of keeping the rock straight and steady. The 10 inch saw will give you somewhere around a 4 inch depth of cut, and you can go further through the rock by slowly rotating the rock while the blade is still deep in the rock. This allows you to push the inside cut up against the blade very lightly, which helps keep the cut straight as you rotate the rock.
For those that are wondering why you cannot get a deeper cut with a 10 inch blade, the answer is the arbor in the center of the blade, which sticks out. So the center of a 10" blade would be 5 inches. So you already lose at least half the blade depth. The the arbor can stick out from the center 1/2 to 1 inch on average, which has to be cleared to push the rock through. Therefore, with a 10 inch blade you have roughly 4 inches of cut depth.
To really get a deeper cut probably one of the best options would be be a diamond band saw with a tall throat. This actually wastes less material as well due to the thinness of the blade.
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 3:20:44 GMT -5
vance71975 - So to answer your other question...yes...those figures I gave for the depth of cut is the MAXIMUM size rock that can be cut without rotating the rock. The maximum size rocks you can cut by ROTATING the rock while cutting them are: 2.75" on the first 1.5" on the second That's "doubling" the depth of cut because you'd be rotating the rock to cut the "other half". You will NOT get clean cuts doing this...period. They will nearly ALWAYS be skewed cuts... Side question, if you do a rotation cut on it, and the cut is skewed, a tumbler should grind that off right? Or could you, in theory, use the edge of the blade on the saw to grind off the skewed part? |
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 3:24:43 GMT -5
I recommend looking for a used, at least 10 inch tile saw. The amount of blade that is actually exposed above the surface of the table with a 4 inch or 7 inch saw is usually maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Can work as a trim saw, but not really a slab saw. A 10 inch saw does a pretty good job once you get the hang of keeping the rock straight and steady. The 10 inch saw will give you somewhere around a 4 inch depth of cut, and you can go further through the rock by slowly rotating the rock while the blade is still deep in the rock. This allows you to push the inside cut up against the blade very lightly, which helps keep the cut straight as you rotate the rock. For those that are wondering why you cannot get a deeper cut with a 10 inch blade, the answer is the arbor in the center of the blade, which sticks out. So the center of a 10" blade would be 5 inches. So you already lose at least half the blade depth. The the arbor can stick out from the center 1/2 to 1 inch on average, which has to be cleared to push the rock through. Therefore, with a 10 inch blade you have roughly 4 inches of cut depth. To really get a deeper cut probably one of the best options would be be a diamond band saw with a tall throat. This actually wastes less material as well due to the thinness of the blade. I would love to get a 10 in tile saw, but those, sadly are WAY WAY outta my price range. |
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 24, 2022 3:29:41 GMT -5
vance71975 - So to answer your other question...yes...those figures I gave for the depth of cut is the MAXIMUM size rock that can be cut without rotating the rock. The maximum size rocks you can cut by ROTATING the rock while cutting them are: 2.75" on the first 1.5" on the second That's "doubling" the depth of cut because you'd be rotating the rock to cut the "other half". You will NOT get clean cuts doing this...period. They will nearly ALWAYS be skewed cuts... Side question, if you do a rotation cut on it, and the cut is skewed, a tumbler should grind that off right? Or could you, in theory, use the edge of the blade on the saw to grind off the skewed part? Cutting it off with a saw would be your best bet. Again, hold the flattest areas of the stone with light pressure to the side of the blade to keep it straight then cut off the burr. Was cutting some Burro Creek material on the slab saw. Several slabs had burrs, so I just cut them off this way on the trim saw.
Problem with the tumbling is that the grinding would be slow and grinding is relatively even around the stone. So better off just trimming it off to make it flat or lay the slab flat and just cut away the bad area.
Or if you have an angle grinder, you can use a diamond grinding cup to remove the burrs.
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 24, 2022 3:32:53 GMT -5
vance71975 - So to answer your other question...yes...those figures I gave for the depth of cut is the MAXIMUM size rock that can be cut without rotating the rock. The maximum size rocks you can cut by ROTATING the rock while cutting them are: 2.75" on the first 1.5" on the second That's "doubling" the depth of cut because you'd be rotating the rock to cut the "other half". You will NOT get clean cuts doing this...period. They will nearly ALWAYS be skewed cuts... Side question, if you do a rotation cut on it, and the cut is skewed, a tumbler should grind that off right? Or could you, in theory, use the edge of the blade on the saw to grind off the skewed part? In theory...sure any skewed area can be ground off. My point was you won't be able to get an absolute straight edge like you could on a single pass. As far as the "design"...it's actually really good for the price point. These saws aren't really designed to cut material that is 1-3/8" thick - even though it says that's the max depth of cut. They're designed to cut tile which is a LOT thinner than that. I'm going to let you know...expect these saws to bog down if you're going to be cutting rocks that are 1.5" and bigger. You're going to have to cut these wicked slow and not force the rock...and even then the saw can bog down. |
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 3:57:14 GMT -5
Side question, if you do a rotation cut on it, and the cut is skewed, a tumbler should grind that off right? Or could you, in theory, use the edge of the blade on the saw to grind off the skewed part? In theory...sure any skewed area can be ground off. My point was you won't be able to get an absolute straight edge like you could on a single pass. As far as the "design"...it's actually really good for the price point. These saws aren't really designed to cut material that is 1-3/8" thick - even though it says that's the max depth of cut. They're designed to cut tile which is a LOT thinner than that. I'm going to let you know...expect these saws to bog down if you're going to be cutting rocks that are 1.5" and bigger. You're going to have to cut these wicked slow and not force the rock...and even then the saw can bog down. I kinda figured it would take 20 mins or so to cut the rocks closer to the max size so glad to see I at least had the go slow right lol |
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 24, 2022 9:51:12 GMT -5
I am pretty sure I am just echoing others input, but I'll jump in anyway.
If you want to cut anything bigger than 2" diameter, and your goal is mostly to just see what's inside and maybe grind/sand/polish later ot to tumble, I think you should hold out for a 10" saw with blade below.
A durable saw will only have 1/3 or less of blade diameter above the table, as they need a decent sized set of blade flange washers to prevent the blade from becoming a potato chip. The blade that comes with a tile saw will be a poor cutter for agates and jasper, so budget a BD hot dog blade when you buy. BD makes a blade called the agate eater for tile saws and water, it is the same blade but for more money.
Good to budget a raincoat and face shield while you're at it, you'll be glad you got them.
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 24, 2022 10:43:25 GMT -5
I might suggest checking Craigslist. Here in the Houston area there are always several(mostly 7 inch) listed at pretty decent prices. I originally purchased a Harbor Freight special 7 inch tile saw. It lasted about 4 years until the arbor was history. Moved up to a better model, Rigid and have been very happy. In my case I have a 10", 20" and 24" saws. I use the 7 inch to half small agates, trim a flat bottom on Quartz Crystals and to cut out Pendant shapes from slabs. Except for the Quartz crystals I have never cut anything larger than the maximum cut depth on the 7 inch. All the agates pictured below were less than 1 to 1 1/4" in size. The tile saw made quick work cutting them in half and then using them as filler. I do have another 3 gallons of interesting smalls to be halved and used as filler.  IMG_4328 by Findrocks, on Flickr Did put the new Tile Saw on and inexpensive cart so I can wheel it outside to use, and wheel it over to the driveway to wash. That has really helped me with moving it around and with cleanup. My suggestion is to be patient, a bargain on a saw will come along. Unless you are on a schedule you should be able to be patient. Do you have any Rock Clubs near you? That might be a another place to start. I got my 10 inch saw, a Raytech, from a good friend, rock hunting buddy, who no longer cared to use it. All I had to do was provide a new motor. My 20 inch saw was bought 12 years ago from Ebay and the 24" saw was bought 3 or 4 years ago from Craigslist, my luckiest purchase as I had emailed seller about 10 or 15 minutes before the next potential buyer. Henry |
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Post by Starguy on Dec 24, 2022 11:16:18 GMT -5
vance71975The saw you showed will work. Will it work well? I would say you’ll be disappointed. That type of tile saw is readily available used. People buy them for one job and get rid of them. What you’ll notice first is that the blade is junk. It will make a few decent cuts then quit working or require a lot of attention after each cut. You can replace the blade with a quality sintered blade but then you’ll find the next weakest part of the design, probably the bushings. As jasoninsd said, they’re built for tile but will work to trim slabs. Hand pushing even 1-2” agates through the one I have is an exercise in futility. Coolant management and overspray control will be the front of your shirt. What doesn’t go on your shirt will be all over your bench and floor. The reason I know this is that I have a very similar saw sitting on the bench in my garage. I would give it to you but it’s not worth the cost of shipping. If I had one piece of advice for newer lapidaries, it would be to save up for quality equipment designed for working rock. It’s tempting to save money by buying equipment designed for other tasks. Just my $0.02.
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vance71975
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2022
Posts: 651
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Post by vance71975 on Dec 24, 2022 15:01:16 GMT -5
Thanks guys, I think im just gonna skip the tile saw. Doesnt seem like it would do what i want it to do.
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Mountain DEW, and Mountain Don't. (sorry-2)
glad someone knows what their doing ...
