AzRockGeek
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2016
Posts: 635
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Post by AzRockGeek on Jul 10, 2023 20:49:58 GMT -5
As you suggested with the rubber mat, try placing an old piece of carpet or a towel below the plywood to see if you can reduce the echo. Maybe the old wheels are slightly out of balance, try taking them off and see if it's as noisy.
Good luck.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Jul 10, 2023 20:52:00 GMT -5
Only sound proofing a machine's motor (arbor), when the grinding aspect of the production has it's own sound elements to deal with in an APARTMENT......needless to say, ventilation and electrical power consumption requirements that peek beyond that residents load limits would be a concern over time as well......Hope your dry wall neighbors are not effected by this....or maybe it's a stand alone unit....either way, light industrial circuit loads (vibes, tumblers, cab machines & grinders) provide enough energy to light-up plaster & stick structures quite easily.......not to mention the water involved in all of this production.........Stay safe Hefty, our passions desires are not worth over looking our well being......!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,623
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 10, 2023 22:16:11 GMT -5
When the belt is not connected to the arbor and you turn the motor on does it sound similarly bad? Bearings in motors can get worn too and need replacing and motor arbors can get bent but the later is not common.
That noted, the noise in your video is not normal for a D-14 Poly Arbor. Those arbors generally run pretty smooth. It may be that the bearings have gone bad and need replacing. Before buying a new motor or new bearings I would first make sure that the pulley on the motor and the pulley on the arbor are not visibly misshapen. Soft alloy pulleys can become misshapen from metal fatigue or from someone having removed or reinstalled the belt over the pulley without releasing/easing the tension. Then I would make sure that the two pulleys are perfectly aligned with each other and that the setscrews are firmly tightened. This may even require shifting the motor if whoever originally mounted it didn't get the motor shaft perfectly perpendicular to the belt/pulley alignment. But likely would just require loosening the pulley set screws and sliding them a little on their shafts to align them using a straight edge. Most of that type Poly Arbor came with either a two, or a three step pulley so just make sure that the motor pulley is aligned with the section of the step pulley for your desired speed. If the pulleys are not properly aligned this can cause really bad vibrations and noise (especially bad if the motor is not perpendicular as mentioned).
I can't tell for sure from the video but it appears that you are using SC grinding wheels. If so, these types of wheels can fairly easily get out of round and out of balance. And this can cause vibration. So try taking the wheels off and start the machine and see if you still have the noise.
If none of these are the issue then next I would change the bearings on both ends of the arbor. Bearings for these are not very expensive but sometimes can be a little tricky to change on a Poly Arbor without a bearing press. So if you don't have access to a press or aren't comfortable doing the job yourself then you may want to take it to a machine shop or motor repair shop and have them change the bearings. It only takes a few minutes to do with the right equipment and know-how so should not be too costly to have done.
If the problem persists then, and only then would I look for a new motor. Worst case scenario if it comes to that after having done all of the above you should then have one sweet running cabbing arbor for a long time to come.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,623
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 10, 2023 22:54:17 GMT -5
As far as rock grinding noise goes I once bought a used faceting machine at an estate sale where the previous owner had set up acoustical screens around their faceting station to dampen the noise so not to bother others in the house. Commercially made acoustical screens can be kind of pricey unless you can find some used ones at an office going out of business sale or from a business liquidating company. But there are several on-line sources that show how to make inexpensive DIY acoustic panels.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 11, 2023 8:10:07 GMT -5
@hefty the rubber bushings on the ends of your blue motor and on the KN motor are resilient bushings. If you want to reduce sound/vibration transfer AMAP, rubber sheeting between motor/arbor and plywood plus something under the plywood will do a lot. There is the Kilmat or Dynomat products, sold for automotive, that may be a slightly spendy but good choice. Search sound deadening materials, some rubber materials do little in that regard.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 11, 2023 23:19:54 GMT -5
One more thing to try. Try twisting the motor in the mount, if those are sleeve bearings there should be oiling holes for the sleeve bearings, assuming that's what they are. You will probably need to loosen the clamps on the ends, then retighten when you're done. If the ID plate on the end of the motor says they are ball bearings, disregard the suggestion. If there is a hole on each end or a cup for oiling, put in some light oil and see if it quiets it. If not, a 1/3hp motor or 1/2hp is in your future.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,623
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 12, 2023 1:07:51 GMT -5
Yes you are right about that motor is sounding pretty rough with the belt off in your video. I'm surprised at how rough it does sound. As Rockoonz advised, if there are oil holes for the bearings then lube them and see if that helps. If there are not and the motor has ball bearings then the bearings are probably shot. If you do decide to go with a new motor a 1/3hp will be plenty powerful for a D-14 poly Arbor. I'm not sure how much difference in noise a resilient mounted motor will have. Any motor similar to the one linked below should fit the bill. www.zoro.com/dayton-split-phase-belt-drive-motor-13-hp-56z-frame-115v-ac-voltage-1-725-nameplate-rpm-6k030/i/G1381256/#specificationsGood luck!
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Post by Starguy on Jul 12, 2023 1:47:13 GMT -5
@hefty
None of my arbor / motor combos have ever been quiet. It looks like you have isolated the source of the excessive noise to the motor. If there is grinding or a rough feel when you turn the motor by hand, it may indicate bad bearings. The old SiC wheels are heavy and may be contributing noise if they are out of balance. You should be able to feel a balance issue with your hand while the grinder is running. If there’s a balance issue, dressing the stones may help.
It sounds like you have the right idea for isolating the noise from your neighbors. Anything that deadens vibration will help. There are mats made to stand on while working. It seems like some of them would be pretty good at deadening vibration. As a last resort, a very heavy stand may help with vibration.
Good luck. It sounds like you are on the right track.
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killerq
starting to shine!
Member since July 2023
Posts: 33
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Post by killerq on Jul 16, 2023 13:25:09 GMT -5
I got the new motor in today! 60 dB Still not as quiet as I would have hoped for but now it's at least reasonable. Nice! How has it been?
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Post by perkins17 on Jul 16, 2023 18:13:05 GMT -5
Well I couldn't decide where to stop refurbishing so I'm now heading deeper down the rabbit hole. Rebuilding the plywood base; going to get new, more sturdy trays fabricated; going to blast and powder coat the cast aluminum parts and replace all of the fasteners and pulleys; going to re-plumb the water. It may take a while before I can actually use it but it's going to be nice and ready for another lifetime of use. Ah, that's just the way it goes. I wish I'd had that kind of budget with mine. I'm running on a vintage 1/3 hp motor on mine. I'm a garage worker, so my noise is nobody else's problem. Hoping it ends up working for you after all these little nickel and dime problems that keep popping up.
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Post by perkins17 on Jul 17, 2023 12:39:10 GMT -5
Ah, that's just the way it goes. I wish I'd had that kind of budget with mine. I'm running on a vintage 1/3 hp motor on mine. I'm a garage worker, so my noise is nobody else's problem. Hoping it ends up working for you after all these little nickel and dime problems that keep popping up. I was taking a closer look at my shaft and I realized I don't have 3" of length even counting the thread. Did you replace your shaft with a longer one or how were you able to use extendo drums? Which side, left or right? Mine has about 4 inches of thread, although I don't need all of it. I'm on a cleaned up original shaft and the center of the drum comes to about 2 inches, not counting flanges, which get it to around 3.
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Post by perkins17 on Jul 17, 2023 22:43:50 GMT -5
Which side, left or right? Mine has about 4 inches of thread, although I don't need all of it. I'm on a cleaned up original shaft and the center of the drum comes to about 2 inches, not counting flanges, which get it to around 3. Both sides of mine are about 2-5/8" counting the thread. I'm a little worried about even fitting a 2" wheel on. The big washer (flange?) and nut will barely be threaded on. Looks pretty dang short, although I think you can probably work it out. Didn't know poly units came with different size shafts, although threads and such look the same as mine so I don't think it was customized.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 17, 2023 23:50:33 GMT -5
What do you plan to use for wheels? The Galaxy style hard wheels and the soft nova style wheels with plastic cores usually are narrower at the hub than they are at the wheel surface, and the spray shields can be moved from side to side as well. The inner flange may not be necessary and the outer flange, if it is a cup chaped one, can be traded for a basic 3/4" flat fender washer to get more threads if needed.
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 19, 2023 14:51:45 GMT -5
AzRockGeek have you disassembled a poly D14? I think I did one like 15 years ago and oldbrain won't let me remember. I had a press and a large assortment of pullers and stuff from the automotive days, plus up to 600 tons of force available at work on molding presses back then.
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AzRockGeek
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2016
Posts: 635
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Post by AzRockGeek on Jul 19, 2023 15:40:32 GMT -5
AzRockGeek have you disassembled a poly D14? I think I did one like 15 years ago and oldbrain won't let me remember. I had a press and a large assortment of pullers and stuff from the automotive days, plus up to 600 tons of force available at work on molding presses back then. I have rebuilt two Polys, they had different style of bearings, one was pressed in the other had a rubber sleeve. The ones with rubber sleeve twisted in, kind of a pain at first. The biggest problem on both was getting the arbor shaft out first. Make sure you clean it well, remove any burrs from the pulley set screws and lubricate well.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,623
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Post by QuailRiver on Jul 21, 2023 23:54:59 GMT -5
Assuming that yours is made the same then yes, after loosening all of the set screws from both housing/bearing protective sleeves and the step pulley (there are usually at least two set screws on a 3-step pulley) you can tap or press the arbor towards the end that has the snap ring. But before you do be sure to run the arbor nuts to the end of the threaded shaft and maybe just a slight bit more so the nuts will protect the threaded ends of the shafts from getting marred or dented. Also it will help to put a few drops of Kriol or some other good joint loosening penetrating oil on both ends of the shaft and let soak a few minutes before attempting to move the shaft.
Once the shaft has been moved enough to push the bearing next to the snap ring out of it's position in the aluminum housing then remove the nut, flange washer, and the housing/bearing protective sleeve from the end that is being pressed and then use a block of softwood (pine will do) to protect the threads on the end of the shaft being pressed/tapped until the shaft is loose enough to pull out from the snap ring end. Then using a long metal punch or hardwood dowel, from the opposite end tap out the other bearing out of it's position from the aluminum housing. But don't get too rough doing this because those aluminum housings can crack.
Now you can clean up all of the parts with WD-40 and 0000 steel wool. And any rusted areas with 3in1 oil and 0000 steel wool and a fine wire brush like the small ones that Harbor Freight sells for around a buck.
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AzRockGeek
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2016
Posts: 635
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Post by AzRockGeek on Jul 23, 2023 22:02:15 GMT -5
Awesome!!!
Did you remember to take some pic's to post?
Definitely replace both bearings. See if you have a local bearing shop, they should be able to easily match it up, or there is Amazon...
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lorney
having dreams about rocks
Member since December 2020
Posts: 55
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Post by lorney on Jul 24, 2023 13:45:05 GMT -5
Awesome!!! Did you remember to take some pic's to post? Definitely replace both bearings. See if you have a local bearing shop, they should be able to easily match it up, or there is Amazon... I'll post a picture like QuailRiver's after I clean up the parts today. I didn't take any pictures during the process because I could feel my hot neighbor watching me and I was trying to demonstrate efficiency lol. It doesn’t matter how efficient you were. Once she finds out you lick rocks, she gone.
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AzRockGeek
has rocks in the head
Member since September 2016
Posts: 635
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Post by AzRockGeek on Jul 24, 2023 18:50:06 GMT -5
I'll post a picture like QuailRiver's after I clean up the parts today. I didn't take any pictures during the process because I could feel my hot neighbor watching me and I was trying to demonstrate efficiency lol. It doesn’t matter how efficient you were. Once she finds out you lick rocks, she gone.
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