resin wheels high grit vs dry polish

[hummingbirdstones]

Chris, can you refresh my memory on what kind of machine you have?

[iamchris]

Highland Park CB8

I have threaded inserts at the end of the arbor shaft. Currently have a Kingsley North flat plastic mount, with an adhesive felt pad, charged with super cerium. Also makes a bit of a mess, whereas the resin wheels would be a bit cleaner.

[goldfinder]

Sorry if I misread your post, but are you using cerium oxide dry? It's typically mixed with water and used as a wet slurry. I think even the precharged pads/wheels are supposed to be kept moist or on a slow water drip.

An ultrasonic cleaner works a treat to remove the cerium from the vugs and cracks. Although soft/fragile materials aren't recommended to go in an ultrasonic cleaner.

[chris1956]

When I started, I was polishing a lot of Petoskey stones.  Because they are porous, polish powder would collect in the pits and look terrible.  I didn't know much about ultrasonic cleaners then, so my solution was to get 14k and 50k wheels.  Not sure why I didn't get 8k wheel.  It might have been because I took my 80 and 120 grit wheels and put them on a two wheel arbor.   Couldn't fit another wheel?   Anyway, the 14k and 50K wheels work great.  On Petoskey stones I can see a lot of improvment in the 14k wheel.  Not as much for the 50k but I can tell it is polished better because the stones are slick as %@$! after the 50k wheel.   You might try the ultrasonic cleaner as it really does seem to clean up stones well (although I haven't tried it on Petoskey stones yet).   Dang wheels are expensive these days.  

I was also thinking that when I did use polishing compounds, I keep the wheel somewhat moist.   I do remember it didn't take much buffing to really heat up a Petoskey stone.  

[iamchris]

Thank you goldfinder and chris1956!

That's interesting you say that, the buff at my rock club says explicitly to use it dry. I don't think I've ever seen them recharge it either.

As a result I've also done it try. I personally mixed my super cerium with water to create my own paste, and then applied that to the wheel and waited for it to dry.

Not long enough, because it proceeded to spray a dividing line through my workshop on the floor walls and ceiling. But that was the intention anyway. 😆🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[rockjunquie]

A buff is used dry. Do you mean wheel?

I used to use the 50k wheel. I didn't like it. I went back to paste on the 50k and 100k. Not messy. It doesn't clog porous stones are easily, IMHO.

I use 8k and like it.

[rmf]

Diamond wheels are great until they are not. When I polish (Agates and Jaspers and obsidian) I take them down to 3000 grit via diamond Nova wheels. I have and 8000 and a 14000 diamond but Then it becomes about speed of finishing. So I go to conventional polish. I have used Tin Oxide(SnO) for 50 years and have not had good results with cerium. However, some on here use a much higher grade of cerium than I have tried. That said the SnO I add about 3oz of Linde A with the tin to speed my work. I use to polish on leather with a spray bottle. When the end plate leather failed they nolonger carried the good glue so I just used my muslin wheels. I polish almost everything on Muslin with SnO+ linde A and get a great polish. The key whether Leather or muslin is to start wet with the polish and work to dry. Especially quartz, glass, and opals are heat sensitive so I use a mister to keep the heat down as well and use the fine fibers on the edge to lightly polish the heat sensitive part after I have worked the wet on more of the center of the buffer.

Other rocks that are softer like travertine I go to 8000 Nova wheel. I discovered that Lapis polishes best on a diamond cloth belt, not a resin wheel.

Polishing happens in two steps wet does some cutting and dry finishes the polish but the work you do while it is wet is key.

[gemfeller]

@iamcrhis Tell me if I'm misunderstanding your post. There's always something new under the sun but I've never heard of using cerium or any other oxide powder dry on a buff. I use them in a wet slurry on felt and leather polishing wheels. Polishing gets done when the wheel is almost dry but not quite. When you feel a tugging sensation you're polishing. But don't continue very long or the stone will heat up and crack. The key for me is to repeat the procedure several times, spritzing a bit of water on the wheel in-between, until I'm satisfied with the polish.

You need to build some sort of shield if possible to prevent redecorating your shop area and yourself. But I think most people use far too much slurry anyhow. Cutting down on the amount might help.

[iamchris]

rockjunquie perhaps I'm misusing the term. Sure looks like a [wagon] wheel, but I didn't want to confuse the terminology with a soft resin wheel. BTW this is one of the things that drives me bonkers about the HP CB8. Why it couldn't have been 1 inch longer to catch the spray is beyond me. My workshop would have a much smaller dividing line. And those red covers are a pain to put on. Wish I went with the KN8.




rmf thanks for the info

gemfeller I'm not pretending to know what I'm doing. There's a two wheel polish machine at the Rochester Lapidary Society that has 50k diamond on one side and cerium (presumably super cerium since it's white) on the other side. It has a paper sign saying to never spray water on it so I thought that's how it was supposed to be done. I'll inquire next time I go to see why they're of the opinion that it should be done dry.

There's a good chance I used too much. And good call on taking breaks to avoid cracking. Confirmed, it's a con, not a pro if I can simply peel the stone off the dop or if it burns my hands like it has in the past, haha. Would it also be considered smarter to keep the stone closer to the center of the wheel to keep the wheel speed (i.e. heat) lower?

[gemfeller]

iamchris I never claimed to know what I'm doing either. There's a new cerium technology I'm becoming vaguely aware of that calls for dry polishing on special disks. Maybe that's what your club is using. Somehow I got it into my head you were using cerium on a muslin buff, the stitched kind used for metal polishing. What material is the buff on your personal machine made of?

I bought a super cerium resin wheel for my Genie. I've used it both wet and dry and so far all it does is ruin the polish I already have from previous steps. I know I'm probably using it wrong but as a friend says, everything's easy once you know how. I'm not there yet.

I'm impatient. For instance, a a strip of cardboard and some duct tape would temporarily solve your redecorating issue if it was my shop.

[chris1956]

Mar 27, 2024 16:47:56 GMT -5 iamchris said:

Thank you goldfinder and chris1956 !

That's interesting you say that, the buff at my rock club says explicitly to use it dry. I don't think I've ever seen them recharge it either.

As a result I've also done it try. I personally mixed my super cerium with water to create my own paste, and then applied that to the wheel and waited for it to dry.

Not long enough, because it proceeded to spray a dividing line through my workshop on the floor walls and ceiling. But that was the intention anyway. 😆🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I think you might be right.  I have used the felt? "wheel" on my cabber wet.   It has been so long, I may have buffed them dry on the buffer.  I do remember it didn't take long to heat up a rock while buffing.  

[iamchris]

Mar 27, 2024 19:48:29 GMT -5 gemfeller said:

iamchris I never claimed to know what I'm doing either. There's a new cerium technology I'm becoming vaguely aware of that calls for dry polishing on special disks. Maybe that's what your club is using. Somehow I got it into my head you were using cerium on a muslin buff, the stitched kind used for metal polishing. What material is the buff on your personal machine made of?

I bought a super cerium resin wheel for my Genie. I've used it both wet and dry and so far all it does is ruin the polish I already have from previous steps. I know I'm probably using it wrong but as a friend says, everything's easy once you know how. I'm not there yet.

I'm impatient. For instance, a a strip of cardboard and some duct tape would temporarily solve your redecorating issue if it was my shop.

Maybe I should consider my software engineer mantra of RTFM for rocks...

Made of the best grade wool felt, highly compressed into disc shape. 1/8in. thick to be used on face plate, flexodiscs, etc. Use wet with your polishing compounds: tin oxide, cerium oxide, linde A, etc

[liveoak]

I have a KN cabber, so my end flat disc is inside my unit, but still, having my cabber in my studio (spare bedroom) I greatly try to limit how much mess it all makes.

I found that these "crayons" of Battstik work really well and don't really make a mess (well, the green chrome oxide one can't help itself).

Basically like I said it's a crayon, I mist my wheel with a spray bottle, then turn on the machine, and rub the crayon on the wheel & you're good to go, no slurry to mix. Then I use the spray bottle as needed. As others have pointed out, polishing is supposed to happen as it starts to dry (and starts catching on the wheel in my experience).

The other thing I do to avoid the mess is using pieces of plexiglass to contain the water.

With your wheel outside your cabinet, you need to make some kind of extension to do that.

Shouldn't be too bad to come up with something that works.

Patty

[rockjunquie]

Mar 27, 2024 18:47:31 GMT -5 iamchris said:

rockjunquie perhaps I'm misusing the term. Sure looks like a [wagon] wheel, but I didn't want to confuse the terminology with a soft resin wheel. BTW this is one of the things that drives me bonkers about the HP CB8. Why it couldn't have been 1 inch longer to catch the spray is beyond me. My workshop would have a much smaller dividing line. And those red covers are a pain to put on. Wish I went with the KN8.




rmf thanks for the info

gemfeller I'm not pretending to know what I'm doing. There's a two wheel polish machine at the Rochester Lapidary Society that has 50k diamond on one side and cerium (presumably super cerium since it's white) on the other side. It has a paper sign saying to never spray water on it so I thought that's how it was supposed to be done. I'll inquire next time I go to see why they're of the opinion that it should be done dry.

There's a good chance I used too much. And good call on taking breaks to avoid cracking. Confirmed, it's a con, not a pro if I can simply peel the stone off the dop or if it burns my hands like it has in the past, haha. Would it also be considered smarter to keep the stone closer to the center of the wheel to keep the wheel speed (i.e. heat) lower?

Ok, It's your right hand flat lap. I call mine spin ons because... well... they spin on. I don't know if yours does. Can you swap out the laps?

[iamchris]

Sure can! rockjunquie

[rockjunquie]

Mar 28, 2024 8:03:57 GMT -5 iamchris said:

Sure can! rockjunquie

I have a lot of spin ons. If I had to do it again, I would have gotten the metal plate and magnetic laps.

[iamchris]

I'm tired of the polish getting in porous surfaces. I'm almost definitely going to get either Nova wheels or SuperNova wheels. I'm not so sure what the 2x price premium gets someone for Nova wheels. If it cabs more quickly and lasts as long, I'd be happy to pay it for as infrequently as they need to be replaced.

I've also seen CurrentlyRockhounding make his own belts, and there's no way they should cost $200-$240 per 8 inch wheel, so I'm hesitant to support such a price difference.

[rockjunquie]

Mar 28, 2024 11:43:10 GMT -5 iamchris said:

I'm tired of the polish getting in porous surfaces. I'm almost definitely going to get either Nova wheels or SuperNova wheels. I'm not so sure what the 2x price premium gets someone for Nova wheels. If it cabs more quickly and lasts as long, I'd be happy to pay it for as infrequently as they need to be replaced.

I've also seen CurrentlyRockhounding make his own belts, and there's no way they should cost $200-$240 per 8 inch wheel, so I'm hesitant to support such a price difference.

The higher polish Nova wheels will last forever. My 14 k lasted at least 10 years. Higher grits even longer.

[iamchris]

Well that seals things for me. Thank you, rockjunquie!

[chris1956]

Mar 28, 2024 11:54:31 GMT -5 rockjunquie said:

Mar 28, 2024 11:43:10 GMT -5 iamchris said:

I'm tired of the polish getting in porous surfaces. I'm almost definitely going to get either Nova wheels or SuperNova wheels. I'm not so sure what the 2x price premium gets someone for Nova wheels. If it cabs more quickly and lasts as long, I'd be happy to pay it for as infrequently as they need to be replaced.

I've also seen CurrentlyRockhounding make his own belts, and there's no way they should cost $200-$240 per 8 inch wheel, so I'm hesitant to support such a price difference.

The higher polish Nova wheels will last forever. My 14 k lasted at least 10 years. Higher grits even longer.

  I have only had mine for a couple years but there is very little wear.