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Post by Bob on Apr 10, 2024 10:48:04 GMT -5
Rotary only. 80 grit until defect free, then 220/600/1,000 one week each, then tin oxide polish (1 week, inspect/cull, then another week), then 8 hours burnish in Ivory soap. All bought except where I note otherwise. Mediocre cellphone camera but at least on tripod.
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Post by Bob on Apr 10, 2024 10:48:50 GMT -5
Yangtze river agates I purchased in Yichang and Nanjing China. I went to some fascinating agate markets when dating my now wife who lived in Wuhan. I have some special stories to explain about this, but don't have time right now, so hope to post them in this thread by the end of the week. These are from China, but not agates. Some of these I collected myself. The 2 at bottom left with stripes are very special to me because I collected them walking along the banks of the Yangtze river in Wuhan while with my wife. Closeup of some of the agates, including one as it comes out of the river before any thing done to it. Aventurine and sodalite. Some sodalite polishes ok, some not. Amazonite, quartz, glass (with bubbles), some green rock, lapis (mediocre piece with rough end), and a piece of charoite. I've been experimenting with charoite, but has found it's really too soft to tumble. Most of the pieces I've experimented with have been pretty much ground to nothing quickly.
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 10, 2024 10:59:51 GMT -5
This is a fascinating batch!
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Post by Bob on Apr 10, 2024 11:21:39 GMT -5
Yangtze river agates are beautiful. They are small and come in a variety of shapes and colors and patterns. But, a big drawback is that most are fractured. They are sold in various markets, usually in pans of water to hide those fractures. But you can have a seller get them out and let them dry and come back a few hours later and inspect. I was looking in one big barrel of dry ones and was excited when w/o my permission the seller poured a big ladle of water in front of me on them which made me mad as I knew it hid a lot of fractures. My wife was translating how upset I was. So I got about 50lb at a very low price when he apologized.
I also went out and field collected with an agate seller. Her access to the area was ending, and we only found some other type of rocks. I bought some agates from her online on eBay after getting back. When I handled them, I knew something was up because they weren't fractured enough and they had an odd feel. I got her to admit they had been soaked in mineral oil. I speculate it would take up a a year to evaporate out and reveal the fractures, so I just set them aside and I was kind of pissed at her. It took only 6 months for the fractures to show. She should disclose what she does in her listings.
So, I have sawn most of them to try to pare down to non-fractured pieces. But in some cases, the rock is so beautiful I don't want to lose any more material so I just go ahead and process it anyway. Opticon really helps hide most of the fractures.
Although I had to wear a disguise to hide that I was a foreigner, I also got taken to a agate processing facility near Nanjing and got to see some neat things that foreigners aren't allowed to see because these families pass down their methods and want to keep them proprietary. COVID really helped me get in because of the large mask I wore. One thing I will never forget seeing a vibratory tumbler so large, and so loud, that to go within 100' of it was frightening. It was mounted in a concrete pier into the ground but still the ground shook.
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 10, 2024 11:52:41 GMT -5
Very interesting story. As far as I know, in China, the Yangtze river agates are normally soaked in the water to enjoy. The majority of the rock collectors in China prefer "raw" (although many were processed in one way or another) stones and don't consider polished stones worthy.
It is amazing that you can hide the fact that you are a foreigner by wearing a mask.
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Post by Bob on Apr 10, 2024 14:00:57 GMT -5
Very interesting story. As far as I know, in China, the Yangtze river agates are normally soaked in the water to enjoy. The majority of the rock collectors in China prefer "raw" (although many were processed in one way or another) stones and don't consider polished stones worthy. It is amazing that you can hide the fact that you are a foreigner by wearing a mask. Had I been alone, no way. But I was guided and told what to do and not what to do by a local that I had done some favors for and owed me. The mask would not be enough. But as luck would have it, the weather was hot and everyone was wearing those very large conical hats. And I wasn't the only one with a mask. So by the time I was all done up, you could only see my eyes, which are blue so a dead giveaway as Chinese don't have that eye color. So there I was, all that, and with dark sunglasses to boot and had to remain silent for a few hours. I probably looked like a villain from a James Bond movie. My wife I think told the suspicious ones that I was her dumb cousin with mental problems or something like that. I had to promise not to take notes on the location of the processing facility and and the driver made sure I had no paper on me and the back windows where I rode of the vehicle were blacked out so I could just barely see the countryside. But, no one forbid me from playing with my cellphone...so I did a lot of screen shots of the Google maps on the way there before no signal existed. Funny how Google is blocked by the Great Chinese firewall but Google maps isn't. This was in 2019 I think. Although the scary vibe was something, another amazing thing I saw was this vertical tower, maybe 15' high. A conveyor belt was slowly raining rocks and water into it from above. Around the base, were perhaps 10-12 people at various stations radiating out from it. The tower sorted and divided all the rocks raining from above in some way. It was like a waterfall and all were wearing raingear and rain hats. A huge mess. But the agates were being sorted from non-agates and I think a size grading was taking place as well. A documentary film on these practices, which have been going on for decades if not centuries, would be something if ever allowed. You are right about the display of rocks in the water. They often have a few goldfish on top of them too and sometimes small plants. In some markets, I actually bought rocks that I had to reach into and get out from where the fish were. The sellers told me wife they thought I was crazy, but I know a jasper I like when I see one! I will be back in that area next year, and by studying the weight allowances of our luggage and the airline rules, I think I will return with about 200 lbs of rocks. To make this work, I have to have nesting containers, kind of miliary grade, inside my luggage because after being loaded up to the limit they must be able to withstand airport conveyor belts and such.
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 10, 2024 15:02:08 GMT -5
"My wife I think told the suspicious ones that I was her dumb cousin with mental problems or something like that." That's quite some commitment! I am also very curious about the industry behind the market and their products, but there are very few, if any, public videos available. Good luck on your 200lbs rock hunting!
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Post by velodromed on Apr 10, 2024 15:05:45 GMT -5
Yangtze river agates are beautiful. They are small and come in a variety of shapes and colors and patterns. But, a big drawback is that most are fractured. They are sold in various markets, usually in pans of water to hide those fractures. But you can have a seller get them out and let them dry and come back a few hours later and inspect. I was looking in one big barrel of dry ones and was excited when w/o my permission the seller poured a big ladle of water in front of me on them which made me mad as I knew it hid a lot of fractures. My wife was translating how upset I was. So I got about 50lb at a very low price when he apologized. I also went out and field collected with an agate seller. Her access to the area was ending, and we only found some other type of rocks. I bought some agates from her online on eBay after getting back. When I handled them, I knew something was up because they weren't fractured enough and they had an odd feel. I got her to admit they had been soaked in mineral oil. I speculate it would take up a a year to evaporate out and reveal the fractures, so I just set them aside and I was kind of pissed at her. It took only 6 months for the fractures to show. She should disclose what she does in her listings. So, I have sawn most of them to try to pare down to non-fractured pieces. But in some cases, the rock is so beautiful I don't want to lose any more material so I just go ahead and process it anyway. Opticon really helps hide most of the fractures. Although I had to wear a disguise to hide that I was a foreigner, I also got taken to a agate processing facility near Nanjing and got to see some neat things that foreigners aren't allowed to see because these families pass down their methods and want to keep them proprietary. COVID really helped me get in because of the large mask I wore. One thing I will never forget seeing a vibratory tumbler so large, and so loud, that to go within 100' of it was frightening. It was mounted in a concrete pier into the ground but still the ground shook. Simply amazing, the agates and your post! What a unique experience you had and thanks for sharing about it. I can only imagine what it was like being next to the huge tumbler…
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Post by Bob on Apr 11, 2024 9:49:43 GMT -5
"My wife I think told the suspicious ones that I was her dumb cousin with mental problems or something like that." That's quite some commitment! I am also very curious about the industry behind the market and their products, but there are very few, if any, public videos available. Good luck on your 200lbs rock hunting! I'll share with you one of my goals. When I was in one seller's booth in Yichang with agates all over the place and digging through that bucket, out of the corner of my eye I saw him sort of throwing a plastic sheet over something in a suspicious way like he didn't want me to see. Well, the plastic slid off and it was a tall and kind of narrow burlap bag of rocks with the top open, maybe 3' high. But I wanted to see if it was a bulk bag of those agates. It was! It was them mixed in with dirty stuff from raw processing. I had my wife ask him how much he would sell me one of those bags for. He said it didn't matter as I could not carry it off. I went over and lifted it off the ground because I'm stronger than I look even though I'm modest size. His eyes popped. I estimated it at maybe 100kg and many men with a strong back could lift that. I have the price in my notes somewhere that he quoted me, probably at least twice what he could take after gentle negotiation. The burlap bag had lots of Chinese characters on it, and I figured I might contact the source so I tried to photograph it surreptitiously with my cellphone as he was again trying to cover that side of it. The photo turned out to blurry to be able to make out any words that my wife can translate. If I could just find the source supplier of those bags of rocks! They are probably cheap. It looked to me like over half were Yangtze agates and the others were great looking jaspers and some crud, probably just as it comes off some conveyer belt after rough sifting and some rinsing. He said normally he would not sell it, but it would save him having to sift out the agates from all that which he highly dislikes. I've actually practiced a little two person routine with my wife that will get him going and she's going to try to photograph that bag if can't try to memorize the characters. But I may just buy one anyway as he was pleasant except for pouring that water on those agates which got both of my arms wet way above my elbows.
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 434
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Post by hypodactylus on Apr 11, 2024 12:43:26 GMT -5
Those agates look amazing; thanks for sharing!
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 11, 2024 13:39:27 GMT -5
"My wife I think told the suspicious ones that I was her dumb cousin with mental problems or something like that." That's quite some commitment! I am also very curious about the industry behind the market and their products, but there are very few, if any, public videos available. Good luck on your 200lbs rock hunting! I'll share with you one of my goals. When I was in one seller's booth in Yichang with agates all over the place and digging through that bucket, out of the corner of my eye I saw him sort of throwing a plastic sheet over something in a suspicious way like he didn't want me to see. Well, the plastic slid off and it was a tall and kind of narrow burlap bag of rocks with the top open, maybe 3' high. But I wanted to see if it was a bulk bag of those agates. It was! It was them mixed in with dirty stuff from raw processing. I had my wife ask him how much he would sell me one of those bags for. He said it didn't matter as I could not carry it off. I went over and lifted it off the ground because I'm stronger than I look even though I'm modest size. His eyes popped. I estimated it at maybe 100kg and many men with a strong back could lift that. I have the price in my notes somewhere that he quoted me, probably at least twice what he could take after gentle negotiation. The burlap bag had lots of Chinese characters on it, and I figured I might contact the source so I tried to photograph it surreptitiously with my cellphone as he was again trying to cover that side of it. The photo turned out to blurry to be able to make out any words that my wife can translate. If I could just find the source supplier of those bags of rocks! They are probably cheap. It looked to me like over half were Yangtze agates and the others were great looking jaspers and some crud, probably just as it comes off some conveyer belt after rough sifting and some rinsing. He said normally he would not sell it, but it would save him having to sift out the agates from all that which he highly dislikes. I've actually practiced a little two person routine with my wife that will get him going and she's going to try to photograph that bag if can't try to memorize the characters. But I may just buy one anyway as he was pleasant except for pouring that water on those agates which got both of my arms wet way above my elbows. Do you plan to come back to this seller in your upcoming trip? The characters on the bags could be irrelevant. Some sellers use fertilizer bags, milk boxes or other random bags to store their rocks. I once inquired some Chinese Yangtzi River Agate suppliers online and, apart from the fact that many sellers intentionally mix some dyed agates or random pebbles into their supplies, the prices were insane. I won't consider tumbling them at that price. If you have luck find some reasonably priced bargain from the local people, I will also be very interested.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,595
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Post by dillonf on Apr 11, 2024 20:16:41 GMT -5
Those Yangtze river agates are very beautiful!
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Post by Bob on Apr 12, 2024 10:16:44 GMT -5
I'll share with you one of my goals. When I was in one seller's booth in Yichang with agates all over the place and digging through that bucket, out of the corner of my eye I saw him sort of throwing a plastic sheet over something in a suspicious way like he didn't want me to see. Well, the plastic slid off and it was a tall and kind of narrow burlap bag of rocks with the top open, maybe 3' high. But I wanted to see if it was a bulk bag of those agates. It was! It was them mixed in with dirty stuff from raw processing. I had my wife ask him how much he would sell me one of those bags for. He said it didn't matter as I could not carry it off. I went over and lifted it off the ground because I'm stronger than I look even though I'm modest size. His eyes popped. I estimated it at maybe 100kg and many men with a strong back could lift that. I have the price in my notes somewhere that he quoted me, probably at least twice what he could take after gentle negotiation. The burlap bag had lots of Chinese characters on it, and I figured I might contact the source so I tried to photograph it surreptitiously with my cellphone as he was again trying to cover that side of it. The photo turned out to blurry to be able to make out any words that my wife can translate. If I could just find the source supplier of those bags of rocks! They are probably cheap. It looked to me like over half were Yangtze agates and the others were great looking jaspers and some crud, probably just as it comes off some conveyer belt after rough sifting and some rinsing. He said normally he would not sell it, but it would save him having to sift out the agates from all that which he highly dislikes. I've actually practiced a little two person routine with my wife that will get him going and she's going to try to photograph that bag if can't try to memorize the characters. But I may just buy one anyway as he was pleasant except for pouring that water on those agates which got both of my arms wet way above my elbows. Do you plan to come back to this seller in your upcoming trip? The characters on the bags could be irrelevant. Some sellers use fertilizer bags, milk boxes or other random bags to store their rocks. I once inquired some Chinese Yangtzi River Agate suppliers online and, apart from the fact that many sellers intentionally mix some dyed agates or random pebbles into their supplies, the prices were insane. I won't consider tumbling them at that price. If you have luck find some reasonably priced bargain from the local people, I will also be very interested. The agates markets are a bit of chaos, scattered through buildings and alleyways, and mixed with sellers of other things. But I think I do remember about where this guy with the bag was and will revisit if can. You are certainly right about how what was printed on the bag might not matter. There were 3 bags--the one standing up which had its top opened--and two still had their tops sewn shut and were laying down and I could not see if they were marked identically or not. Agreed that prices are insane for many of them online. The one photo where I have the natural one is representative of those commonly sold online and the prices for them have approx. doubled on eBay since I was there. Some of them that are multicolored, and especially the Chinese Fighting Blood agates, are spectacular. Word has reached me through some Chinese contacts that some Mongolian agates are starting to reach the world market and they are very unique. We plan on being up that way within 5 years. Some people tell me they are from Mongolia, others tell me no they are from the Chinese side of the border up there.
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 12, 2024 10:51:47 GMT -5
Ah about these Chinese Fighting Blood agates, I am more familiar with the translated name "Chinese Warring States Red Agate". One common way of purchasing these online is buying nodules by the box and the seller would cut open the nodules in a livestream, for you to see if there is anything decent. They will abandon any cut that is less than ideal for you, to save the shipping. I didn't have much luck in such box, but watching them cutting the nodules for me while I can still work on something else is cool. In the end, there was one interesting pair that I really liked and they accidentally "lost" it in shipping.
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Post by Bob on Apr 12, 2024 13:47:48 GMT -5
Since you had the video as proof, were you able to get a fair adjustment of your purchase?
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 12, 2024 14:21:06 GMT -5
Since you had the video as proof, were you able to get a fair adjustment of your purchase? Yeah they offered me another pair as a replacement, which looked nice, and I paid the additional face polishing fee. Will try to take some pictures later.
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Post by Bob on Apr 12, 2024 16:37:52 GMT -5
Since you had the video as proof, were you able to get a fair adjustment of your purchase? Yeah they offered me another pair as a replacement, which looked nice, and I paid the additional face polishing fee. Will try to take some pictures later. Good. When I grew up, I became accustomed to polite negotiating at garage sales, flea markets, this and that in OK, TX, and AR. Somebody wants $10 for an old shovel and I offer $10 for it and the rake, and the smaller shovel and that kind of thing--3 for 1. But nothing prepared me for China. In Wuhan, Jenny took me in many stores of many types. In one, she told me to offer the proprietor 10% of the asking price. I said no way, I can't do that--that's insulting are you kidding me? She told me they would be insulted and not respect me if I didn't. Oh man, just what I didn't need to hear, that I need to man up. But I just couldn't bring myself to start that low. She laughed. She did, and the seller looked like he had been shot with a gun in the heart, bent over, nearly on the floor, talking about his children would not have enough food to it. It was pretty darn convincing. Jenny walked out and I followed her in a bit of shock. He came out on the sidewalk and still in pain and hobbling and bent over, negotiated her up to about 15% of posted price. I was stunned. But that guy deserved as Oscar for his performance. Jenny said "they will not sell if they don't make a certain profit, so don't feel stress about it." She also said foreigners may get taken for too high prices, but so do Chinese just as much when they are travelling to cities and markets they don't know well. She also said there are certain types of stores you don't do that in, reputable gold and gold jewelry products for instance. In a market in Quito, since I speak Spanish, I overheard some sellers through a partition talking about this little Asian woman and her negotiating them down. I thought "could it be..." and I went around the partition and there she was with a smile on her face as the seller was putting a handwoven Otavalo blanket into a sack for her. I asked her how in the world she pulled this off since she speaks no Spanish. She showed me her hand signals while holding money in a certain way for too much, need to do down in price, etc. She said they are universally understood. I was darn impressed.
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rockinronda
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2023
Posts: 154
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Post by rockinronda on Apr 12, 2024 17:33:52 GMT -5
Your stories are most fascinating sir! I could sit on the deck, drink in hand and just listen. I enjoyed seeing your morally conscientious bartering method, instead of just rampant greed. Also how when you spoke of your wife there was no lamentation. It’s the little things remind me humanity still means something to some people. Thank you.
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pebblesky
fully equipped rock polisher
Purchased another UV mini bowl for tumbling
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,442
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Post by pebblesky on Apr 12, 2024 22:53:45 GMT -5
Since you had the video as proof, were you able to get a fair adjustment of your purchase? Yeah they offered me another pair as a replacement, which looked nice, and I paid the additional face polishing fee. Will try to take some pictures later. The pair that got lost in shipping: The pair as the replacement, smaller, but more colorful. As soon as I received them I realized they are not a pair. The halves don't remotely match each other along the contours, which will seriously affect their market values, but they are beautiful nonetheless.
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Post by Bob on Apr 12, 2024 22:59:45 GMT -5
Don't think I've seen any before quite like either of those.
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