I've had it with Lortone

[polished]

The barrels aren't hitting the sides on either side - and I can't see the belt slipping on either one, but I'll run them tomorrow with the cases off and see if either belt is slipping.

I can turn the barrels by hand, and there's no obstruction with either.

I'll try the candy-cane taping tomorrow morning and see if that helps. I have one brand new barrel, never before been used - and it won't spin on either of the two. And the barrel that IS spinning on #3 won't spin on #1 or #2.

I ran them tilted up for an hour today, then brought them back level on the desk and they started working - we'll see if they're still running when I look in the morning !

[rockyraccoon]

ok stab in the dark here but i remember ron telling me to lightly sand and rough up my barrels. he said they might have gotten too slick with all the rolling. he told me to slightly sand the rollers too.

kim

[docone31]

With the Loretone, and other long frame tumblers, torque is a factor. My loretone had a rubber-dubber that was a little bigger than the other three. That put a load on the drive roller, and ultimately the slave roller. It created an overloaded condition on the motor.
With those sheet metal tumblers, it is not enough to have a dead planed surface, the frame must be also level.
I ran a couple of runs and the motor slowly slowed down. Eventually, I had to roll the bbls to get it to run. Then it would run, slow down, and stop, slowly. Each time the rollers stopped, the next run would be quicker to stop.
I replaced the motor, and made sure the frame was level with the table surface. I had to replace the rubber-dubbers. Then the weight of the bbls, would level the unit and the rollers ran easily.
I learned a simple lesson with that one. Although the directions did not mention the integrity of the unit, it should have been obvious to me.
Once the motor goes soft, it stays soft. They are inexpensive and easy to replace. I bet, Loretone might just exchange motors. It sucks when these things happen, but they do.
I got an Ultratec faceter that was off plane. It got dropped by the shipper. That was a bear to resolve. You just do not tweak a bolt or two. It has to be calibrated, then recalibrated. It is supposed to be paralell to 1 micron per 4ft. Things happen.

[puppie96]

Remove the housing from the units and LEAVE IT OFF and run them that way.

[rollingstone]

If the roller is turning but the barrel is not, then definitely go with Kim's comment above. When I said somewhere near the start of this thread something like I haven't had to do anything except normal maintenance, I consider regular maintenance to be taking a wood rasp to the barrels every so often to roughen up the surface so that the rollers can grip them and keep them turning. I probably only do that every six months or so, but it is a part of normal maintenance, 'cause the barrel surfaces do get slick after awhile.
-Don

[xenaswolf]

If you decide to trash your Lortones, send them my way, I'd be glad to have them!

[puppie96]

I am serious about removing the housing. Try it.

One of mine would only run if it was propped up on the non-drive side, thus placing more weight on the drive shaft. This was my first one, a single barrel 3-lb. one. When I got my first 2 barrel 3-lb., I noticed right away that the two rods weren't on the same plane, they were set up with the non-drive side higher than the drive side, same as I was doing with the propping.
Oddly, now this tumbler doesn't need to be propped any more. It runs when it is flat. I'm not sure exactly why, but it really does seem that experience plays a part here -- I'm running 5 Lortone units continuously except when on vacation, and I rarely have problems anymore -- or at least, any that I have are quickly fixed.

BELT DRESSING is a friend of mine, too.

[spacegold]

It sounds like the roller is turning but not getting traction on the barrel. If this is so with an empty barrel, say so to Jim. If it turns an empty barrel, load the barrel a quarter at a time until it quits and report this to Jim. If the drive roller is turning, there is nothing wrong with the motor and belt. Make sure the idler roller is free spinning.

I like Thumler's 3, 12, and 15 pounders, but the 3 & 12 lids have to be reinforced for coarse grit. And the 3's lids leak when the rubber band stretches. They are using a big hose clamp on the 12 lid now. Works well. I love six pound hex drums, but nobody seems to make them any more. Got mine and my AR-12 used on Ebay. Also got an AR-15 for under $100 on Ebay. There are three of them up now. The 15s are wingnutted lids like 6 pound hex barrels.

Sure glad I got an old Victor cast aluminum saw instead of a new Lortone.

[spacegold]

By the way, I fixed the traction problem on a Sears 6 pounder by splitting a short piece of auto heater hose and slipping it over the shiny drive roller. Made the drum turn a little faster but it still worked fine. No more traction probs.

[LCARS]

OK Polished, so if I get you correctly, you said that the motor/belt/drive shaft are all going but the barrel does not spin. Assuming that everything else is still moving when the barrel stops that leaves only the traction between the drive roller and the barrel to blame for the stoppage.

First, I will admitt that the quality of Lortone products seems to be going downhill and not just the kit polish we all know just does not polish anything. I've heard about the issues with the trim saws as well, and that's pretty sad to see coming from Lortone. Still, the only thing they can really cheap out any more on with the 3-6lb tumbler models is the motor, so unless it isn't able to turn the drive roller with the barrel loaded up on it or it labours when loaded, then you're probably OK for that at least.

The issue with the barrels simply not getting enough traction against the bare steel rollers can be solved in one or a combination of a few different ways depending on the cause(s).

A} your barrel walls may be "barrelled" out ie bulging at the middle (|) or "bowed" )|( ie caving in slightly at the sides. Either condition significantly reduces roller contact surface area. Test for this by placing the offending loaded barrel on a level counter top on it's side as mounted in the tumbler. Shine a light directly behind it and look from the front where it meets the surface for any arcs of light passing under it. Any measurable distance away from the surface is "zero contact" with the drive roller. Rubber castings don't always cure evenly and can deform slightly over time no matter if they are stored or in use. The only way to correct this realistically would be to replace the barrel or if you're stubborn, you could mill off the high spots somehow.

B} The outer running surface of your barrel may have lost it's traction due to glazing, surface contamination or absorbtion of oil. If your barrel passes the countertop level test, try running some 80-120 grit sand paper across the outer surface of the barrel parallel with the drive roller. Once the entire circumference of the barrel has been "resurfaced" then apply some Zippo fluid to the corner of a clean rag and rub it across the surface in the same direction. Just rub a few times over each area so it appears wet on the surface for a few seconds then move on. This will soften the rubber for awhile and expose more surface area for better traction and in time, the barrel should "settle in" on it's own, provided it doesn't become more warped over time.

C} Your drive roller may have reduced traction due to oil/glazing/residue build-up on it. There is a rubber shaft sleeve available for 33a & 33b tumblers (possibly others) that you slide over the drive roller to increase the traction against the barrel, at the expense of an RPM or two. My 33b came with one installed and I have never had a barrel stop turning on it, EVER. My 33a does not have a sleeve and I have had to remedy the barrel slipping on the drive roller on two or three occasions. If you're too broke/lazy/stubborn to install a sleeve, you can always try splining the shaft a bit with some coarse sandpaper. I don't recommend doing this because of the likelyhood of getting grits and filings in the bushings or scratching up the bearing ends of the shaft, then you're really hooped.


I'm willing to bet that if you investigate a little further you will probably find that there are areas of insufficient contact between the barrel and the roller. Correct this problem and be confident once again that your tumblers will still be turning when you go to check on them and they will be less hassle to maintain. I always do a service check-up on my tumblers after every full run just to make sure I catch anything amiss before it goes south on me.


p.s.
I wasn't implying that you were an idiot either BTW, just cautioning against jumping to a conclusion prematurely.
It may very well be that the new tumblers Lortone is making are lower quality than before, and maybe they are "crap" now...?
My newest one is over two years old now so maybe I got on just in time...? I just haven't heard of anyone with your magnitude of lemon units before so the story is a bit hard to buy off the cuff.

Too many of us have had problems with the Lortone kit polish for it to be considered a fluke, the issue is without a doubt systemic.
Jim just says he's stuck with the supplier he's got for the time being. I don't own a Lortone trim saw but after looking at one in The Rockhound Shop I can see why people complain about them. You can tell when something is just poorly/inadequately built.

I defend the 33a & 33b tumblers because once you work out the few minor little bugs they can have with things like belt tension, bushing lube & roller traction while they're breaking in, they will continue to perform dutifully for as long as you are willing to take proper care of them. That should not entail a major overhaul every other week though, that's for sure.

[jerryb]

I've said it before, i'll say it again. I would not buy a lortone tumbler.

if you have to do all that crap to get or keep one running i don't need one.

BTW the whole problem with these is simple: the motor is under specified and too cheap.

by not specifying a powerfull enough motor they set up a potetial for failure and by buying cheap motors they assure that whenever a motor comes off the line slightly weaker than most it will fail.

talk all you want about "jim will take care of it" if jim wanted to take care of it he would put on sufficient motors and NO ONE would have a problem.

sorry, i won't buy one. i'll buy the barrels but not the equipment.

cheers
jerry

[stefan]

OK I skipped most of this thread But just some Personal stuff with the thumlers- I have 2 of em- A model T and and AR-2- they have not given me ANY trouble mechanically- I do have issue with barrel lids wearing thin- and I got a few Barrel seal rings that broke too quickly (shawn at Rock Shed replaced em for free) But other than that they are working GREAT (the Model T is approaching it's 2 year Birthday (Dec/ 03) and the AR-2 is gonna be 1 yr old next month (Oct.) My Model T has even tossed the barrel (my fault in overloading it) and jammed the moter for at least half a day- and I just right the barrel and it keeps running!!!! JM2C

[polished]

Okay, I propped those two up last night for an hour, forcing the barrels onto the powered roller - and like I said they will tumble in that position, but after a few hours the barrel usually jumps off. I went to the garage an hour later and removed the wedge, placing them back down in the normal position and they were tumbling.

This morning, they're still tumbling.

I don't understand why propping them up works when they won't run normally - OR why doing that for an hour has them now tumbling normally.

Would the barrels have become smoothed so badly in only 2 months' use? Yes, I run them continously except for the one day of cleaning and inspecting - I just wouldn't expect this much trouble and trouble-shooting on units that have only been in use a few months.

If they keep running, I'll keep them running -- but I have decided to purchase a Thumler 15 lb for my next unit !

Thank you all for the tips and help. If they stop again, I'm going to try the tape around the barrel for traction. If that works, I'll buy some more new barrels. If the motor is weakened on two (actually 3 but one's in at Lortone for "repair") are the motors themselves inexpensive? Is it worth replacing them with motors that may well fail in 3 months again?

[puppie96]

Again, TAKE THE HOUSING OFF! The motor will run cooler. Excess heat in there makes the belt stretch and slip a bit. A lot of problems are usually solved with this simple step. I have yet to have a Lortone that would run right with the housing on.
Tilting it puts more barrel weight on the drive shaft and I do think it's interesting that what I figured out to do on my own is exactly what they do with the design on the other models.

[stefan]

That seems so odd- Is the drive roller still spinning when the barrels stop? I wonder if using a different roller cover would help- or perhaps roughing up the barrel and the roller cover with a bit of sandpaper??? It almost sound like oil or something else (silicon spray?) got on the roller cover.

[polished]

Yes, I took the casings off so I could see things move, and left them off today so I can keep looking at them. I'm starting to get the feeling these 3lb units are being built more for casual use, not constant. I can't fathom someone NOT running their tumblers constantly !

They're due for a check now, so I'll see if they're still turning.

[Sabre52]

Yep, I always run mine with the housing off so they run cooler. Funny but I've never had to abrade either the rollers or the barrels and mine all run all the time. The 33B barrels are kind of textured anyway and it seems to hold up well and the 6 and 12 pound barrels, even though they are very smooth, seem to be heavy enough to hold the rollers even better than the small barrels. I generally load my small barrels fairly light, maybe 3 1/2# filled and run my grinding barrels very heavy. Total weight on the QT 12 and QT 66 at least 15-17# or so. definately less trouble with the big ones than the 33b's but the small units seem to work well to as long as I don't overload them and as long as I keep the belts properly adjusted so everything is properly alligned. Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble polished......mel

[SirRoxalot]

OK, by belt tightening you mean you loosened the motor and moved it to it's maximum extension, right?

That's a most unusual problem for new tumblers. Mine have been going for years; I haven't even replaced the belts yet, just keep adding rubber bands around the pulley.

Ever have a local expert look at your machines? Often somebody on the spot can tell you what's going wrong, whereas it's hard to diagnose via phone. Something wrong with house current, or maybe the wrong motors were installed, seems like a simple lack of power.

To be honest, your case is so far different from my experience with Lortone, and so contrary to everything I've heard about Lortone, that I'm almost inclined to dismiss you as a salesperson for another brand doing a little brand-assination work. No offense, it's just like hearing somebody say that BMW makes a lousy car that won't even run. Very strange. Hope you get the problem fixed, cos I don't think there's a company out there that makes a better tumbler.

[agatemaggot]

you might try brushing barrel down with brass bristle [soft] welders toothbrush type brush after wiping drive shaft and barrel with acetone or m. e. k.

[agatemaggot]

lightly sanding drive bar back and forth from end to end may help also. After so much polishing going on inside, your texture , or factory finish on your contact areas [outside]
may have become as polished as the material in the tub. Old german malidy reffered to as [slippineingrippin]. I used slightly more drastic measures on my unit. It involved an end wire brush in an electric drill and a can of 3 M spray adhesive. After adhesive dries 24 to 48 hrs. it will stick to drive shaft without peeling off ,but , wont adhere to barrel.

incidently, end wire brushes are excellant for putting texture on the bottom of your gold pans also.