Making some Fischer Stone update-2 (22-Jul)

[Pat]

Is this any way related to how the Imori Stones were created?

[deb193redux]

helen, they do stop/slow growing after days to a few weeks. They grew less today than yesterday. Some of the duds may have already stopped.

I don't know if the iron gets used, or if the soda solution dilutes the copper solution in the stone. All my thoughts are based on what I read cause this is my 1st batch.

Pat: This is different. Victoria stone (aka Imori) is several minerals (feldspar and others) somehow combined and forced to form a new crystal structure, The exact process dies with the inventor and has never been replicated.

[Pat]

I have an Imori stone that is not Victoria. It is green with a dark dot in the center. I'll send a photo if/when I find that slab.

[deb193redux]

all I know is web pages that say Victoria = IImori, cause that was the name of the guy who made Victoria.

e.g., www.snobappealjewelry.com/blog/?p=159


I wonder if someone mislabled your stone?

[helens]

Daniel, your experiments are always fascinating, and you do such an organized job with cataloging your experiences and taking outstanding photos. Can't wait to see the product when you are done with this one, those are going to be beautiful!!

I asked the question because I wondered if the bloom size could be controlled... by length of soaking in the cupric, or size of steel catalyst, or length of time in contact with the catalyst... something makes those blooms bigger or smaller, and I was wondering if you had observed which might have the greatest impact. The blooms I have seen from the samples varied so much in size... there's at least one factor that determines that size..

[deb193redux]

I agree, but it is more likely several factors and they may be comparable in influence. the pore space of the stone and how well it has been saturated with copper solution is crucial. Can't grow dendrites where there is no copper to grow them. the size shap and distribution of the iron may also contribute, but playing too much whith this may get so much growth the stone is ruptured. varying the pH of the soda solution might also be useful, but lots of experiments would be needed, and you would need a lot of very similar agate.

[grayfingers]

I am very interested in your project. I have a lot of clear agate, and hope to do something with it. Growing dendrites would be great. I have looked at the chemicals used to color agate and been put off by the price and the need to burn in a kiln. Am experimenting with Malachite green following a simmer in soda. Thanks for sharing this, will be curious to see how they turn out.

Bill

[deb193redux]

Bill - Look through the online version (linked above) of the book by Fischer.

If your clear agate is porous enough to take the copper solution, then it should grow dendrites OK.

Usually the light blue and grayish and frosted translucent white is the most porous. Sometimes glass-clear is very dense and not porous at all.

Cupric Chloride is pricey. But there is a method to make from inexpensive copper sulfate (aka, Root Killer) and table sale (sodium chloride). This precipitated a fluffy gypsum that is very difficult to filter out, but you can soak stone without filtering. (It is not like the gypsum is going to soak into the stones.)

I soaked these slabs in about 6oz of saturated copper chloride solution that I made form 8oz of lab grade copper chloride (aka cupric chloride) crystals that cost $27 dollars plus shipping.

I have a quart of copper chloride solution with some gypsum settled on the bottom (I made it last year; setting is very slow) that I made form a $7 bottle of root killer.

As soon as I slice up some more of my snakeskin agate, I want to try the new solution. Also, I want to take two closely matched thick center slices, and place one in the original solution. This will let me compare my cheap home made solution to the expensive stuff.

At the rate I finish projects, it is hard to say when I would have this done. Maybe this summer.

[helens]

I wonder if this might be the kind of thing to do a forum-wide experiment with? That is, someone obtains enough solution to spread to the other partipants, and everyone interested contributes towards the cost of the solution and rebottling so that the original mixer and distributor gets his portion for free for the work.

Then we have a list of experiments we want to try, and each person takes ONE experiment to do alongside the rest of their tried and true pieces, on one single piece of agate, for the purpose of combining information for all at the completion of the experiments (so 1 person isn't out of pocket doing all the experimenting to share the info).

Ie., use a piece of metal up to 10x the size currently tried. Use 1 piece of metal 5x the size currently tried, use 3 tiny pieces of metal spaced equidistant apart, soak 1 piece for 1 month, soak 1 piece for 3 months, etc. If we come up with a list of possible experiments, and say 10 people participate and test 1 piece each answering 1 question... everyone would still have nice pieces from the tried and true, but we may end up with a much faster and more comprehensive understanding of the other possibilities?

I'd be willing to participate if you'd be interested in setting it up. It doesn't look like a lot of media is required, so the amount of cupric needed spread out between many people would be way lower in price.

What do you think Daniel?

[deb193redux]

Coordinating the same agate and methods, cor comparability, sounds smart. But, shpiing liquids is usually not cost efficient. If the homemade solution works, folks could ger Root Kill locally and make theri own with a lot less fuss.

If folks just want to try variations that have not already been tried, and post results, that might be the most efficient balance of coordination effort and getting questions researched.

[helens]

True! Well, when you test the root kill, post how you made it so I can try it too:).

[deb193redux]

sure, it was simple. add root kill to warm water until no more will disolve, then add table salt, then let settle.

see the proportions half-way down this page: www.stainedfloor.com/Copper_Recipes.html

[helens]

You sure that will work the same way tho?

Let me rephrase that... how can you be sure if you didnt' try it:P. I meant are you going to test it first:)?

[deb193redux]

yes. I need to cut up some more snakeskin soon. they will soak until sometime in the fall.

i made the solution almost a year ago. its color looks identical to the expensive stuff, but I am not going to pay to have it tested or anything. the proof will be in the dendrites.

[helens]

Will wait to see if you have dendrites, tho I think based on your link that appears to be the same stuff.

Other thing I wondered... what happens if you redo it? Like put one already done (the smallest dendrite or least attractive) in the solution a 2nd time? Wonder if the original dendrite would grow again/intensify, and you'd be able to add to the dendrite blooms in a 2nd spot making an even bigger bloom with more dimension?

I'll take the questions back to pm since I feel like I'm distracting the thread a bit. So glad you are doing this, I love new experiments:).

[deb193redux]

if you read through Fischer's chapters, he does talk about some that work on the 2nd try or 3rd try. He meant the duds, but I think you could use a new spot on a good one.

he recommends only one start on a 2x3 slab, and makes multiple starts on larger slabs. but a lot of his blooms seemed larger. .... I'm not sure how several blooms would look on a disk. I wonld not like several on a teardrop. maybe several vertical on a rectangular piece. FOr me, it is hard to beat one nice bloom in a field of pale agate.

[gingerkid]

Awesome experiment, Daniel, and the cabs look pretty good so far! I've always wondered why Snakeskin Agate was used to make the dendrites in Fischer Stone, and thank you for your explanation!

Ironic that you are thinking of using "Root Kill" for making dendrites. LOL!

[xXxAlisha91xXx]

Wow! That is so cool. I'd love to give it a try once you find out if the root kill solution works. Be sure to keep us in the loop

[helens]

Daniel did another really kewl experiment on tuxedo agates (and probably more than that too). He's got INCREDIBLY beautiful slabs as well. Always does such fun things, it's fun to read his notes:).

[xXxAlisha91xXx]

Hmmm...I'll have to search for that post