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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 18:37:57 GMT -5
There you go pretending to know how I think again. And once again you are wrong. I do admit when i am wrong, just like I say I don't know if I don't. So let's see if you were telling the truth about being the first to admit you were wrong since once again you were wrong about me.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 18:51:27 GMT -5
There you go pretending to know how I think again. And once again you are wrong. I do admit when i am wrong, just like I say I don't know if I don't. So let's see if you were telling the truth about being the first to admit you were wrong since once again you were wrong about me. Oh great Googlemiester, I'm so sorry if I was wrong about you. However, I have yet to see where you have ever admitted being wrong in the short time you've been on this forum. It must be lonely out there, having 600 years of knowledge crammed into that juvenile brain of yours. Sure hope I haven't attacked that inferiority complex of yours. |
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 19:17:41 GMT -5
This whole Jakesrocks thinking he has all the answers reminded me of something. I am also very heavy in to collecting meteorites. When I was first getting in to them though I would collect anything that had any type of meteoric feature then cut and test them for things like the presence of nickel. Anyway, I found this rock in the desert one day that had all the features of a howardite, a rare type of meteorite. I studied that thing extensively for about 6 months since it fit the description of a howardite perfectly. One problem though, all the so-called "experts" on meteorites kept claiming the same thing. That meteorites are heavier than terrestrial rocks. This rock was not heavier than the average terrestrial rock though. Finally I gave up on it and put it back in the desert. Later I had gone to see a meteorite dealer in Southern California who was helping me to learn how to identify meteorites. I would bring my suspects and he would tell me which ones were not and why and which ones I should definitely send to a lab for analysis. He would also let me examine the pieces in his collection. One day he pulls out a howardite the size of my fist worth $85,000. I am holding it and noticed something odd. Despite what all the "experts" in the books, universities and websites said about meteorites being heavier than the average terrestrial rock this was lighter. I commented on how light it was and he responded that yes, they are lighter than the average terrestrial rock. The rock I threw away based on what the so-called "experts" all said was about 3 times larger. Since then I have bought various pieces of howardites and guess what? They are all lighter than the average terrestrial rock.
Doing more research I also found out that various other meteorites, such as carbonaceous chondrites are also lighter than the average terrestrial rock.
Furthermore, I found all sorts of examples of known meteorites that contain things that the so-called experts claim NEVER exist in meteorites. For example, the "experts claim that meteorites do not contain vesicles. Yet Ibitira for one has more holes than Swiss cheese. The "experts" claim that quartz is never found in meteorites, yet when you read actual studies we find that quartz has been found in various meteorites, especially howardites. There is a so-called meteorite "expert" that runs a site for Washington University in St. Louis. According to this "expert" no carbonate rock will ever test positive for nickel. I guess this "expert" never heard of nickel carbonate rocks like hellyerite and zaratite. And I have found three carbonate rocks here in the Las Vegas area that all test strongly positive for nickel. I tested multiple samples by dissolving the samples completely in HCl then testing the remaining solution with ammonium hydroxide and dimethylglyoxime. And yes, they test positive for nickel.
These are examples of why we should not rely on one source of information that fits our needs like some people on this site do. I prefer to look at actual research studies that the so-called "experts" somehow never seem to be able to find so I have more detailed information on the subject that I cannot get from the "experts". Especially the self-proclaimed "experts" like Jakesrocks.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 19:21:43 GMT -5
There you go pretending to know how I think again. And once again you are wrong. I do admit when i am wrong, just like I say I don't know if I don't. So let's see if you were telling the truth about being the first to admit you were wrong since once again you were wrong about me. Oh great Googlemiester, I'm so sorry if I was wrong about you. However, I have yet to see where you have ever admitted being wrong in the short time you've been on this forum. It must be lonely out there, having 600 years of knowledge crammed into that juvenile brain of yours. Sure hope I haven't attacked that inferiority complex of yours. Juvenile brain? Do you realize how juvenile your constant slandering of everyone who disagrees with you and proves you wrong is? Why have I not said I was wrong on this board yet? Simple, because there is no evidence that I have been wrong. If there was was some solid proof I was wrong about something then I would admit to being wrong just as I have done elsewhere. But I am not going to say I am wrong when I am not just to please you. You are not a king that everyone has to bow down to and kiss your feet. |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 19:42:12 GMT -5
Result List Refine Search PrevResult 1 of 1 Next
Detailed Record
Title:
VARISCITE/STRENGITE.
Source:
Peterson Field Guide to Rocks & Minerals; 1996, p238-239, 2p
Document Type:
Reference Entry
Benchmarks:
Earth & Space Sciences -- Geology -- Geochemistry
Earth & Space Sciences -- Geology -- Rocks, Minerals & Soil
Subject Terms:
VARISCITE
PHOSPHATE minerals
MINERALS
PHOSPHATES
MINERALOGY
MINES & mineral resources
COPPER
NICKEL
Abstract:
The article presents information on the mineral called variscite and strengite. Really of two very different origins (parageneses). Variscite forms in secondary deposits near the surface in clay-rich rocks sometimes associated with other secondary phosphates. Strengite is generally a secondary phosphate of pegmatite associations. The green color, acid insolubility, and lack of copper or nickel tests eliminate any minerals of those metals. Variscite resembles turquoise but is greener and contains no copper. Strengite can be distinguished from amethyst by its softness and by blowpipe reactions.
Lexile:
1000
Full Text Word Count:
513
Accession Number:
18199774
Database:
Science Reference Center
Translate Full Text:
HTML Full Text
VARISCITE/STRENGITE
Section:
PART II MINERAL DESCRIPTIONS
Al(PO4)·2H2O/Fe(P04)·2H2O Pl. 40
Orthorhombic -- Rhombic bipyramidal 2/m 2/m 2/m
Environment: Really of two very different origins (parageneses). Variscite forms in secondary deposits near the surface in clay-rich rocks sometimes associated with other secondary phosphates. Strengite is generally a secondary phosphate of pegmatite associations. Crystal description: Variscite usually massive, sometimes in thin crusts of small crystals of pyramidal habit. Strengite in crystals and botryoidal crusts. Physical properties: Light green or emerald green (variscite); deep pink or amethyst (strengite). Luster porcelaneous; hardness 3 1/2-4 1/2; specific gravity 2.2-2.8; fracture smooth to conchoidal; cleavage not obtainable as a rule. Brittle; translucent in thin splinters to transparent in crystals. Composition: Hydrous aluminum iron phosphates (variscite about 32.3% Al2O3, 44.9% P2 O5, and 22.8% H2 O). Variscite forms an isomorphous series with strengite, the iron phosphate equivalent. Tests: Infusible, but most variscite specimens turn violet and brittle on light heating. Decompose, but insoluble in dilute hydrochloric acid before heating; become soluble afterward. Will then give phosphorus test with ammonium molybdate. Strengite crystals turn ocherous and cleave up on heating.
Distinguishing characteristics: The green color, acid insolubility, and lack of copper or nickel tests eliminate any minerals of those metals. Variscite resembles turquoise but is greener and contains no copper. Strengite can be distinguished from amethyst by its softness and by blowpipe reactions, and from other substances by the phosphorous test.
Occurrence: Both minerals appear to be secondary. Like turquoise, their ingredients are derived from the breakdown of minerals in the surrounding rock. Variscite may form veins, crystallized crusts, and nodular masses; the best occurrence is the rounded nodules, up to a foot (30 cm) across, that are embedded in a soft rock at Fairfield, Utah. The cores of these nodules vary in color from dark green to pale green, though the darker pieces have a tendency in time to become paler, probably through the evaporation of moisture. The nodules of this locality are framed with rims of other phosphates, minerals derived from the alteration of the variscite with some shrinkage, so that an open space is commonly found between the differently colored rims and remaining variscite. In Lucin, Utah, variscite forms in greenish veins. Both localities have produced material used in jewelry. An interesting occurrence of thin crystallized greenish crusts of variscite has been noted in Montgomery Co., Arkansas. Also found in Pontevedra, Spain, and in large masses at Pannecé (Loire-Atlantique), France, and Freiberg, Germany.
Strengite is very different in occurrence. It is found in iron mines as a late mineral, in crusts and small crystals. However, the best crystals came from altered phosphates in an old German pegmatite at Pleystein. Radiating pink rosettes and coatings of an intermediate variscite-strengite are found in a phosphate-bearing pegmatite in Rio Grande do Norte, Brazil. Good strengite or dimorphous phosphosiderite crystals have been found in altered triphylite at the Bull Moose Mine, Custer, South Dakota. Attractive microrosettes of strengite were found at Indian Mountain, Alabama, associated with a number of other phosphates.
In the pictures originally posted, the shades of green and blue alone are indicative of a mixture of copper minerals. Variscite is not a copper associate, and is not found in or around copper rich environments.
"Juvenile brain? Do you realize how juvenile your constant slandering of everyone who disagrees with you and proves you wrong is?
Why have I not said I was wrong on this board yet? Simple, because there is no evidence that I have been wrong. If there was was some solid proof I was wrong about something then I would admit to being wrong just as I have done elsewhere. But I am not going to say I am wrong when I am not just to please you. You are not a king that everyone has to bow down to and kiss your feet."
You have yet to prove me wrong.
I have made no claim to being a king. But you certainly have tried to make people think that you are of a superior intellect to the rest of us. Others may not have said anything yet, but I can assure you that people on this forum are getting sick and tired of your superior attitude towards everyone. Others may want to "keep the peace", but I'm too damned old to give a damn. I speak my mind.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 20:24:33 GMT -5
I have made no claim to being a king. But you certainly have tried to make people think that you are of a superior intellect to the rest of us. I really don't see what the point of your reference was. It just repeats what has has already been shown, which has been questioned with actual research studies. As for your last comment you are yet wrong again. I have not tried to prove a superior intellect. I simply know how to do research and take the time to do it. Just like when I installed a 47" skylight on my house. I am not a contractor, nor had I ever installed one before. So I researched how to do it and did it. So if you think I am wrong then so is all the research and researchers I have obtained the information from. So you should be writing to them and telling them how wrong they are based on your superior OPINION!!! |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 20:29:45 GMT -5
We have yet to see your sources for all of your "research". I posteed mine. Mindat.
You're slipping. Took you 45 minutes to figure out an answer to my last. What's the matter, couldn't google an answer?
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 21:09:33 GMT -5
We have yet to see your sources for all of your "research". I posteed mine. Mindat. You're slipping. Took you 45 minutes to figure out an answer to my last. What's the matter, couldn't google an answer? LOL!!! You think you are so important that I am supposed to sit here and wait patiently for you to respond so I can immediately respond to your holy word. Sorry, but you less important to me than a cockroach I step on. Unlike you I have a life and don't sit here at the computer all my waking hours. I was outside taking some pictures that I will get posted here shortly. So once again I have to point out to you that you are not a king. The only throne you sit upon is the porcelain throne. Of course in your case it is probably old splintery wood a ways from your house. As for the sources they do not have internet addresses to post. If you want the titles on the studies I can provide those for you although I seriously doubt that will understand what they say. |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 21:30:26 GMT -5
No vegasjames, I don't think I'm that important. I'm just someone who tries to be helpful on this forum. Just take the time to ask a few folks how often I've helped with problems they're having with lapidary equipment. Why I've even helped your twin Helen with answers to problems while we were still friends. I've also answered questions about rocks, minerals, fossils and meteorites, without trying to sound like a know it all.
As for thrones, yes, I've sat on more than a few wooden thrones in my day. I've even chased a couple copperheads out of the throne room. Probably more than you can say. Your throne probably has one of those poof fur covers on it, so your poor delicate tooshy doesn't get cold.
Try me. No, try all of us with your sources. I can't speak for the others, but I have a pretty good collection of college geology books in my library. Also many non college reference books on rocks, minerals and fossils.
Before saying anything more, why don't you put a drop or two of dilute hydrochloric acid on your "Variscite", and truthfully tell us what happens ? The reaction may take a minute or more.
And now if you'll excuse me, I have new mineral specimens to catalog.
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Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 21:50:46 GMT -5
Wow, I do not know how I missed this thread until now. Less important than a cockroach you step on. You are at it again James. Like Don said "we have yet to see your sources for all of your research. I posted mine. I would also like to see your sources other than a man told you this or a man told you that.
Jim
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 22:06:41 GMT -5
Why is it that every time Don decides he is always right and everyone else is wrong and someone comes along proving otherwise Don needs to be rescued?
Here, since neither of you know how to do some basic research to look up the facts you can start with:
The origin of the green color of variscite American Mineralogist, Volume 90, pages 984990, 2005
Then look up Railsback's Some Fundamentals of Mineralogy and Geochemistry Hardness of minerals III: hydrous vs. anhydrous minerals
You can start with those, which back up what I have been saying and once again prove Don is moron with a I am always right regardless of the real evidence complex.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 22:09:18 GMT -5
Thanks Jim.
Maybe I should have told him the proper proportions of Nitric and sulfuric acids to mix with glycerine for the test, and to shake vigorously before applying to the specimen.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 22:17:45 GMT -5
Thanks Jim. Maybe I should have told him the proper proportions of Nitric and sulfuric acids to mix with glycerine for the test, and to shake vigorously before applying to the specimen. You would be stupid enough to do that. Of course you would not have made it even that far being that you apparently don't realize that the glycerine, nitric acid and sulfuric acid all have to be cooled in to a very narrow range to keep it from exploding immediately. See, you are not as smart as you pretend to be. |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 22:22:05 GMT -5
Why is it that every time Don decides he is always right and everyone else is wrong and someone comes along proving otherwise Don needs to be rescued? Here, since neither of you know how to do some basic research to look up the facts you can start with: The origin of the green color of variscite American Mineralogist, Volume 90, pages 984990, 2005 Then look up Railsback's Some Fundamentals of Mineralogy and Geochemistry Hardness of minerals III: hydrous vs. anhydrous minerals You can start with those, which back up what I have been saying and once again prove Don is moron with a I am always right regardless of the real evidence complex. Fact, Variscite is a hydrate. Deposited from phosphatic waters reacting with aluminous rocks at surface or near-surface conditions. Now, before running your superior mouth any more, try doing the simple test I told you to do, and give us a truthful answer about what the results were. As for Jim "Coming along to rescue me", I didn't ask to be rescued by anybody. Jim has a mind of his own, and doesn't have to be asked to speak his own opinions. I think you owe him an apology for even suggesting that. But of course, you're always right, and owe no one an apology do you. |
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 27, 2013 22:32:14 GMT -5
Why is it that every time Don decides he is always right and everyone else is wrong and someone comes along proving otherwise Don needs to be rescued? Here, since neither of you know how to do some basic research to look up the facts you can start with: The origin of the green color of variscite American Mineralogist, Volume 90, pages 984990, 2005 Then look up Railsback's Some Fundamentals of Mineralogy and Geochemistry Hardness of minerals III: hydrous vs. anhydrous minerals You can start with those, which back up what I have been saying and once again prove Don is moron with a I am always right regardless of the real evidence complex. Fact, Variscite is a hydrate. Deposited from phosphatic waters reacting with aluminous rocks at surface or near-surface conditions. Now, before running your superior mouth any more, try doing the simple test I told you to do, and give us a truthful answer about what the results were. As for Jim "Coming along to rescue me", I didn't ask to be rescued by anybody. Jim has a mind of his own, and doesn't have to be asked to speak his own opinions. I think you owe him an apology for even suggesting that. But of course, you're always right, and owe no one an apology do you. What test. The only "test" you mentioned was to make nitroglycerine and shake it. You go first, it will save a lot of time for the people on these boards that actually know something since they won't have to waste any more time proving you wrong. By the way, that is not even a test for variscite, so once again you show your sheer stupidity. Secondly, it is interesting how every time you decide to argue against the evidence I see someone coming to your rescue. I guess they feel sorry for you since you cannot get anything right. |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 27, 2013 23:09:17 GMT -5
First, go back one page. Second up from the bottom, but you only read what you want to, before running your mouth, don't you.
And now, read the last 2 lines in my last statement. Once again, you only read what you want to, before running your mouth.
And no, it's not a test for variscite. It's one of the tests for copper content. A test I doubt you'll try, and if you do, you won't truthfully post the results. Now who's showing "sheer stupidity"?
You seem to be the only one on this board who's complaining and trying desperately to prove me wrong. Do the test. Truthfully report the results, and prove me wrong if you dare.
Getting bored arguing with a know it all idiot. Gonna play with my mineral catalog. Don't forget that test. I'll be expecting the results in the morning.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 28, 2013 0:30:24 GMT -5
OK, so I was wrong. I did not read all the way through your post as they are generally just filled with childish insults that are not worth reading. Problem is that I am in a catch 22 situation. You already assumed I would not do it and even if I do you assumed again I would not report the results truthfully. So even if I run the test and report them truthfully you are simply going to call me a liar if the results don't fit your beliefs. Furthermore, I guess I have to teach you even more about variscite and chemistry. First of all simply putting HCl on the stone is not a confirmation test for copper. If you want me to test for copper then I can add the acid to the surface then flame test the acid for the presence of copper. In addition, you clearly don't realize that copper bearing minerals can be present with variscite. For example, when turquoise, a copper bearing mineral, is present in variscite it is known as variquoise. In fact, if you look at my cabs you can see a tiny vein of turquoise running through. So if there are traces of copper ores present in variscite will it test positive for copper? Of course. This does not mean it is not variscite. I still cannot believe that I have to keep teaching you such simple common sense things.  But to satisfy your need for self abuse I went ahead and just ran the test for the presence of copper. I swabbed the surface of the stone with a concentrated hydrochloric acid. This is about 6 times stronger than the stuff you buy at Lowe's for your pool. I let it sit for 3 minutes on the cut surface of the stone. Then I swabbed the area with the same swab. By the way there was absolutely no visible change to the surface of the stone, which is not surprising since variscite is barely soluble in HCl. Anyways, I then flame tested the swab, which showed absolutely no copper. If copper were dissolved in the HCl then there would be a bluish-green color in the flame from the copper. But nada. All I got were yellow and orange from the burning of the cotton swab. So of course you will have some excuse as to why you were not really wrong. Most likely you will accuse me of not really performing the test and lying about the results. But you would just be wrong as usual if you did. |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 28, 2013 0:44:44 GMT -5
#1 -- What you have is not Variscite. Even if it does contain some Variscite (which I seriously doubt), it's a conglomerate of several minerals, and should not be represented as Variscite, unless you're trying to deceive someone.
#2 -- Variscite occures in a completely different environment from turquoise and other copper minerals.
#3 -- What have you got to loose by running a simple acid test, unless you fear being proven wrong.
#4 -- No, acid on its own isn't a complete test, but it's a quick, down and dirty test which will indicate the presence of copper. Simply put a drop or two on an area you're sure is Variscite. After a few seconds wipe a cotton swab over the spot. If it come away with a greenish color it's a copper mineral. Variscite is non reactive to dilute HCL.
#5 -- It's late. Tired of arguing. I'm going to bed.
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 28, 2013 2:59:44 GMT -5
#1 -- What you have is not Variscite. Even if it does contain some Variscite (which I seriously doubt), it's a conglomerate of several minerals, and should not be represented as Variscite, unless you're trying to deceive someone. #2 -- Variscite occures in a completely different environment from turquoise and other copper minerals. #3 -- What have you got to loose by running a simple acid test, unless you fear being proven wrong. #4 -- No, acid on its own isn't a complete test, but it's a quick, down and dirty test which will indicate the presence of copper. Simply put a drop or two on an area you're sure is Variscite. After a few seconds wipe a cotton swab over the spot. If it come away with a greenish color it's a copper mineral. Variscite is non reactive to dilute HCL. #5 -- It's late. Tired of arguing. I'm going to bed. As far as your comment: #1. I have been told by several people that examined the rock in person and tested it that this was in fact variscite. And my own testing has backed that fact up as well. #2. You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. For example, try reading the Congressional Serial Set page 889, which states "Turquoise has been found within a few yards of variscite in similar forms of occurrence at some of the deposits". On page 891 they state "Both variscite and turquoise have been found on this claim". Keep reading they give other examples of the presence of turquoise and variscite together. Then there is Turquoise Deposits of Nevada, Nevada Bureau of Mines Report 17, which states "Phosphate minerals of the variscite group are also commonly associated with turquoise". "Turquoise was first discovered on the Pirate No. 3 claim, at the west end of the group of variscite claims". "A little greenish, variscite-like material also was found in the pit and is said to have come from the same veinlet as the turquoise". "It was an undeveloped occurrence of turquoise on the variscite claims of Carl Riek and W. K. Botts, presumably about four miles north of Coaldale on the west side of the Monte Cristo Range." "The greenish turquoise is very difficult to distinguish from variscite and may occur in seams in the same specimen with blue turquoise." In A Gemological Study of Turquoise in China, Gems and Gemology Spring 1986, they state in reference to turquoise "Common associated minerals include quartz, halloysite, allophane, limonite, sericite, variscite, pyrite, and jarosite. And as I mentioned when they ocur togehter they are referred to as "variquoise": www.bwsmigel.info/geol.115.essays/gemology.turquoise.html"Variscite and turquoise, in fact, sometimes occur together in a rock which has been dubbed "variquoise" which brings a premium price for its attractive patterns and combinations of colors." Again,more proof that you seriously need to learn about what you are posting about before posting instead of just making up your "facts". #3. Try reading the post before yours. I already ran the test and as suspected the acid had no affect on the stone and when I flame tested the acid solution twice it proved there was no copper present both times because the stone is not a copper mineral as you keep falsely claiming, it is variscite. #4. Thanks, you just proved my point. I left the concentrated HCl on the surface for 3 minutes then swabbed the area again. No discoloration of the swab at all. Furthermore, I flame tested the acid after sitting on the surface of the stone twice to see if the flame would show any bluish-green color indicating copper. Neither test showed any presence of copper and again the stone did not react at all to the acid. That is because the stone is variscite as I have been continually saying, NOT a copper based rock as you keep falsely claiming. 5#. You, tired of arguing? Never!!! I have come to the conclusion that you live to argue. That is why you are always arguing with everyone and have to make sure you have the last word. If the person stops playing your game then you post more insults to bait them back in to your arguing game. |
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 28, 2013 9:35:23 GMT -5
Blah Blah Blah. S.O.S.
I still contend that what you have is not Variscite, tho it may contain some in its conglomerate mixture. Your cabs clearly show the mixture of minerals.
Variscite formed at a shallow geologic depth. Not so copper based minerals. Over millions, if not billions of years of weathering, it only stands to reason that weathered out pieces of variscite would come into contact with the deeper forming copper minerals. More millions of years and it stands to reason that varying amounts of variscite would become inclusions in these copper minerals. But Varisscite DID NOT form in the same environment as the copper minerals, as tou would have us believe.
Yes, small deposits of Variscite have been found in both Nevada and Arizona. But true Variscite has not been found to have formed directly within copper bearing zones.
And to end this crap once and for all, You're right, (in spite of evidence to the contrary), and I'm wrong. You will never consider anything anyone says which is contrary to your beliefs to be true. Don't consider this a victory of any sort. I just have better things to do than argue with you.
Oh, and for the record, True Variquoise was discovered in a small area in Utah back around the early 60's. The site is all but worked out. Variquoise was a trade name given to this material because it resembled Turquoise in appearance. But in reality it was true Variscite which formed in small rounded nodules. The infilling between these nodules resembled the black spiderwebbing found in some Turquoise. Since that discovery anything found that remotely resembles the original Variquoise / Variscite is automatically called Variquoise. The name (Variquoise) has become nothing but a name used by many to sell their material.
And now I'm finished with this subject. You're right. You're always right. Heaven forbid that someone should disagree with you.
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