herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Mar 21, 2014 1:18:35 GMT -5
I know a lot of trim saw threads pop up on here, but that is not what this is intended to be.
Here's my question, best process for creating preforms?
I use a combination of carefully selecting a slab, looking at it for possibilities, toying with putting it on my oily combo machine, then dropping it on the cement floor and see what happens.
The oily saw stops me from using it very often. I need a better blade on there, it can cut OK but it is S L O W. I see folks using trim saws and wonder to myself if that is not only a less expensive route, but due to water versus oil and maybe other factors I'm not considering the trim saw actually makes the preform process faster.
I asked about the lapidary scroll saw but people seemed to think it was more expensive, slower and generally a bad idea so I've not gone that route. I do use a pair of tile nippers as well from time to time, but the little shards it shoots all over are undesireable.
I'd welcome any discussion and experience.
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robertm
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 18
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Post by robertm on Mar 21, 2014 6:52:45 GMT -5
Hi, I buildt this saw to make preforming easier It works a treat! Regards RobertM
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,455
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Post by Sabre52 on Mar 21, 2014 7:08:06 GMT -5
John, For speed and cost, I find it hard to beat the old cheapo water cooled tile saw I use. Using cheapo tile saw blades at about $10 each works fine once you are used to it or, you can go for a true lapidary grade blade for smoother, faster cuts still. I get me a nice hot day and set up in the yard and with the tile saw can trim enough preforms for a year in a couple of hours. You can even use the edge of the tile saw bade to grind off the little spurs and such or go closer to the line if you like....Mel
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 21, 2014 9:54:57 GMT -5
I use the same combo unit you do for preforming only I keep water in mine so that part is not as bad. The two downfalls I see are that because its a combo it is set to run at 1725 rpm which is much slower then the new blades (303C) are capable of and being a 6" diameter there are not any "cheap" tile saw blades we can use either.
I do all my trimming/preforming in the house in a finished area of the basement so a tile saw will never happen but I might go to a dedicated 8" lapidary trim saw so I can ramp the up the RPM'S and throw on one of the cheaper tile saw blades.
Chuck
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bsky4463
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2013
Posts: 1,696
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Post by bsky4463 on Mar 21, 2014 11:18:06 GMT -5
herchenx i think a saw with water cooled (i use additive to improve cooling) blade is the answer for preforms. as already mentioned lots of options with tile saws or lapidary saws. i think speed and size of blade are good requirements for selection. i have an old 8" star arbor with courser grit wheel that i used to preform with, but find i use the saw more and more. robertm nice saw! do you have a cover plate or do you run it open as photo'd - if so do you get alot of overspray? I saw a photo, maybe on the forum, of someone running their trim saw "backwards", meaning the guard hing was towards them. The saw the "front" of the saw was against a wall with a piece of plastic vertical from the saw tray. Instead of the over spray hitting the cutter in the chest it hit the plastic and drained back to the tray then into the basin. I havent tried yet, but seemed like a good idea to reduce the mess.
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jerrys
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 263
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Post by jerrys on Mar 21, 2014 11:58:10 GMT -5
I have a taurus diamond wire saw. I do not recommend it for cutting cab preforms for average slabs. The cost of each diamond wire is around $40. However, I use it for very expensive slabs as there is very minimal waste. Then, I'm able to get more cabs per slab. Remember these diamond wire saws are manufactured for glass cutting. The first time I used this saw, I was only able to cut 11 preforms out of Arizona rainbow wood 1/4" slabs using a 80 grit diamond wire. Mileage will vary with hardness.
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Thunder69
Cave Dweller
Thunder 2000-2015
Member since January 2009
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Thunder69 on Mar 21, 2014 12:45:42 GMT -5
John, A cheap little tile saw is the best option for it . Like Mel said you can get the blades cheap and only need water...John
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on Mar 21, 2014 13:49:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree about the tile saw. But I am biased, it is my grinder too. You might find a lightly used one cheap at a pawn store. Like Andy said, it is best to stand behind the saw. I cab with mine and have to be able to see very well. Plus, you will not get smacked in the chest with a rock if it binds. I use a big tub for the water, and fill it up to the safe max. Keeps the water cool and cleaner, plus I do run deeper water than the stock pan holds, It seems to me the more spray, the longer the blade lasts. (Grey pan is stock water tray.)
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 21, 2014 14:22:16 GMT -5
grayfingers, so you are not using the stock tile saw water tray and just stick the whole saw (partially submerged) into a bigger tray? i might have to try that out.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Mar 21, 2014 14:55:39 GMT -5
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Mar 21, 2014 14:55:57 GMT -5
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 21, 2014 15:23:49 GMT -5
im not the most experienced with different types of saws but that looks like its got plenty rpm's. looks very similar to the MK tile saw that i see sold at some lapidary shops as a trim saw. if you dont need more cut depth than that i would think it'll work fine.
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herchenx
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2012
Posts: 3,360
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Post by herchenx on Mar 21, 2014 15:54:34 GMT -5
yeah vugs I'll be turning slabs (~1/4" thick) into preforms
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jerrys
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2014
Posts: 263
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Post by jerrys on Mar 21, 2014 16:17:52 GMT -5
The one on HF will work good for cab preforms. If you want to cut down fossil leaves, fish, or trilobites, you will want a 7" tile saw. Watch the adds and you will find them on sale for $80 to $90.
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Thunder69
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Post by Thunder69 on Mar 21, 2014 16:27:03 GMT -5
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Mark K
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Post by Mark K on Mar 21, 2014 19:08:01 GMT -5
The Home Depot saw has really bad reviews and they do not say what the arbor size is. This makes me suspicious that it might be one of the ones with an odd-ball size arbor which means you have to buy the blades from them. I bought one from Menards a few years back and abused it really badly and it is still going strong. It uses 5/8 arbor blades. This is the common size.
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 21, 2014 21:28:46 GMT -5
If you are going to get anything with an electric motor steer clear of HF. The only thing I ever would buy there with a motor is when I need a reciprocating saw for major deconstruction jobs when they are on sale, the way I use them they seldom last over a couple days but I will break a good Milwaukee as well so throwing a couple away is cheaper. Also 4 inch seems a tad small, I have a 4 inch trim saw that is only used with thin blades for spendy rough, but most of my trimming is with my 6 inch ancient HP saw. The 8 inch saws at our clubs shop are my favorites for all around cutting. Drummond Island Rocks is spot-on about a stand alone 8 inch trim saw, 8 inch is the biggest I would use with water (with an additive) and they will treat your favorite slab right, minimum kerf loss and the correct RPM for long blade life. If you live in a climate where you're ok with being soaking wet year around I guess a tile saw can be cost effective for stuff you don't pay a lot for, but if you have a nice indoor shop or want to cut spendy rough they are out of the question. If I find a real cheap tile saw at a garage or estate sale this year I plan to buy it, but it will be for a real tile job.
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Mar 21, 2014 22:42:09 GMT -5
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vugs
starting to spend too much on rocks
Rockbiter
Member since February 2014
Posts: 225
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Post by vugs on Mar 21, 2014 23:30:36 GMT -5
The 8 inch saws at our clubs shop are my favorites for all around cutting. Drummond Island Rocks is spot-on about a stand alone 8 inch trim saw, 8 inch is the biggest I would use with water (with an additive) and they will treat your favorite slab right, minimum kerf loss and the correct RPM for long blade life. im planning to put together a trim saw soon and you probably just sold me on the 8" stainless Lortone FS8 basic.
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 22, 2014 0:01:29 GMT -5
vugs I like the Lortone, one of the 8 inch trim saws at our rock club shop is the old style painted steel one with many years of hard use. As soon as they come in I will be replacing the arbor bearings quite possibly for the first time. Lortone still sells the parts and the job will take about 30 minutes not counting cleaning the saw.
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