Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 19:34:44 GMT -5
I think the whole master blaster thing worked out rather well. I knew I had it right. I just didn't remember HOW RIGHT! lol
Your analysis of 1000 grit taking out the shine and the pits makes perfect sense.
Interesting you have gone to AO grains. One grit we NEVER discuss that is common in industry is zirconium grains. I wonder if they are more expensive that SC. The grinding wheels cost more. Must be. But do they last! dang!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 17, 2014 20:39:42 GMT -5
Will see what happens. AO suggested for softer material. I read that in a book . Not my idea.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 7:15:01 GMT -5
Using a digital camera to see your tumbling progress. It can be a fine microscope. In fooling around w/this obsidian the macro of the camera has come in handy. Pictures in this thread all taken w/high end Nikon DSLR. But it is old and only a 6 megapixel camera. So I took a newer cheaper point and shoot camera to see if it would pull off the macro stuff. It has a much finer 20 megapixel ability. The cheap did excellent because photos could be cropped much more @ 20 megapixels. Here are some photos. All subject rocks and the one below were about 1.5 inches across in this thread. initial photo under desk light, zoomed almost max, camera about 5 inches to rock, camera set on fine or 20 megapixels(20M). Using this photo 6.9 megapixels(big file). Same photo cropped to almost same size as magnification used in this thread. Center is two divots close together. 2.5 Megapixels Same photo cropped more than magnification in this thread. Two divots still at center of photo. 6 megapixel camera was fuzzy at this point. 1.23 MP Taking it further by cropping it by almost half, still fine resolution. Pair of divots still about center. .624 MP Cropped yet closer, this time reaching limit of 20 megapixels and losing resolution. .25 MP This rough stone for example. Using glare, surface status can be analyzed with less magnification as used in thread. At least to 500 grit level, maybe 1000. Using most cheap point and shoots most likely.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 7:51:50 GMT -5
It's been 15 hours. Going to go pull a rock and see if the 400 pits are gone or if they are darn gas bubbles. If gone, they are going straight from 1000 to 14,000. Maybe a polish by tonight.
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Post by connrock on Sept 18, 2014 7:56:00 GMT -5
I think the "frosted" surface that has a defined pattern is the actual wear from the grit but I also think I see small areas that have a different and erratic pattern which I believe to be actual flaws(gas bubbles)? Something that's puzzling me about this whole process is that I don't really see any difference in the surface "texture/pattern" between an 18 hr run and a 36 hr run in the same grit. If your theory about the grit breaking down that fast is correct I would think that there would be a significant difference in the surface but I don't see it here? I'm having a hard time getting a comparison between your rotary and my vibe as I do all of my cycle after rough in a vibe.
What I think is happening in your rotary is that the obsidian is being worn down fairly fast but the grit hasn't had time to fully break down to a level where you would see a difference in the surface?Rule of thumb for a rotary is that the grit will break down in 1/2 in 7-10 days and do the same in a vibe in 12-16 hours. So,,,,your 400 grit isn't really breaking down in 18-36 hours? You're also using sugar which I think cushions not only the obsidian but also the grit. Without using a microscope to actually examine the grit(before and after),,,all of this is theoretical! LOL I've never used all AO either so ,again,it's hard to make a comparison,,,other then to theorize! LOL
Hey,,,what do I know? It took me 5 years to get out of high school! LOL connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 9:10:39 GMT -5
After 15 hours in AO 1000. Shine from 1 micron gone. Looks like AO 400 pits gone. Gas bubbles apparent, along with one of yesterday's impact divots. Gas bubbles serving as a great reference. Yesterday's AO 400 pits and 1 micron shine. Hard to tell gas bubbles from AO 400 pits. Subject sample rock for first photo after 15 hours in AO 1000. Refrosted and not reflective due to AO 1000 as in above photo. Feel comfortable moving to 1 micron polish now. To get a real nice shine in a rotary on obsidian a finer polish than 1 micron may be another necessary step. Will start 1 micron now.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 9:35:34 GMT -5
I think the "frosted" surface that has a defined pattern is the actual wear from the grit but I also think I see small areas that have a different and erratic pattern which I believe to be actual flaws(gas bubbles)? Something that's puzzling me about this whole process is that I don't really see any difference in the surface "texture/pattern" between an 18 hr run and a 36 hr run in the same grit. If your theory about the grit breaking down that fast is correct I would think that there would be a significant difference in the surface but I don't see it here? I'm having a hard time getting a comparison between your rotary and my vibe as I do all of my cycle after rough in a vibe. What I think is happening in your rotary is that the obsidian is being worn down fairly fast but the grit hasn't had time to fully break down to a level where you would see a difference in the surface?Rule of thumb for a rotary is that the grit will break down in 1/2 in 7-10 days and do the same in a vibe in 12-16 hours. So,,,,your 400 grit isn't really breaking down in 18-36 hours? You're also using sugar which I think cushions not only the obsidian but also the grit. Without using a microscope to actually examine the grit(before and after),,,all of this is theoretical! LOL I've never used all AO either so ,again,it's hard to make a comparison,,,other then to theorize! LOL Hey,,,what do I know? It took me 5 years to get out of high school! LOL connrock I never finished high school, quit early in 11th grade. so we will get along fine.(did get a GED and continued further You are dead right Tom. The grit does NOT seem to break down. But it is cutting at it's specified depth. And fast. The slow turning packed gentle action is not breaking down the grit. Even the media was chosen softer than the obsidian. But is providing a quick finish directly related to the grit size each step. There is no in-between as there is in a grit reducing vib. And I did not want to wait for the grit to reduce. If a 220 surface can be nailed in 48 hours, a 500 surface in 12 hours, a 1000 in 12 hours, a 1 micron in 12 hours w/out impact damage I am tickled pink. All I am asking is for each grit to do it's job, and gently. Step at a time. You master's of vibrators are brave. If a tumbler will break grit down then i am worried it will frost damage soft rocks. So the soft tumble in the rotary. I also want to tumble fluorite. Maybe even gypsum...So the tinkering. The problem may be the highest polish. May be forced to use .3 micron polish to get a really shiny rock since the 1 micron may not break down. Or run with out the sugar and see if the 1 micron will break down. Or just reduce the amount of sugar. It is a different approach, that's all.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 11:38:58 GMT -5
Started back with 1 micron at noon today/Thursday. Will take photos 6-7 hours later. Will have a shine to use reflective photo analysis RPA on the full slow rotary sugar tumble process FSRSTP. The finer the grit the quicker it finishes(less material to remove). PS Mixed 1 micron polish w/2 cups of sugar to make a paste. Then let her spin kinda dry for a few minutes to distribute polish before adding water and 4 cups sugar. Never knew it takes less polish, always use the same dose as the coarse grit, like instead of a cup/10 pounds, a 1/4 cup/10 pounds. duh
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 12:20:56 GMT -5
Looking at tumble polishing larger 6+ once chunks. May work with this method.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 13:03:58 GMT -5
After AO 1000 for 15 hours: Shine on high spots after one hour in AO 1 micron. Same mag as above, but higher than rest of thread. after 3 hours
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 18:25:50 GMT -5
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carloscinco
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Post by carloscinco on Sept 18, 2014 19:57:34 GMT -5
Whew! What a super trip through obsidian. Still watching!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 18, 2014 20:50:39 GMT -5
Whew! What a super trip through obsidian. Still watching! Hey Carlos. Where are those Rios, palms and woods
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 19, 2014 6:21:58 GMT -5
Added another 1/4 cup of AO 1 micron after 6 hours. Running 1/2 cup/10 pounds. Just for affirmative grind. Noticed no scratches thru out process. Roundish AO particles must be rolling and not sliding. Obsidian always has a sand blast textured surface. Appears fresh wet AO glitters in water, used AO does not so much. Must be rounding sharp edges off particles some. Most common type of AO particles from images, but it comes in many shapes:
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 19, 2014 6:52:10 GMT -5
80 Grit garnet abrasive may coarse grind obsidian. $25 for 53 pounds at Tractor Supply. Probably slow. The 30/60 Silicon carbide sure rounded it fast. And because of that it opened up a lot of gas pockets causing gas build up. Pre-grinding eliminated a lot of this problem. Rounding really rough shaped obsidian must create a lot of gas build-up. www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/black-bulltrade%3B-no-80-grit-abrasive-garnet-sand
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Post by orrum on Sept 19, 2014 7:41:26 GMT -5
I saw the shiny rose quartz you tumbled James. I am watching you and find your battle very!!!!# interesting.... I got faith your obsidian is gonna gleam!
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Post by connrock on Sept 19, 2014 8:01:07 GMT -5
"You master's of vibrators are brave"I don't know about other vibes but although a Lot-O-Tumbler looks like it has a violent action it's actually VERY gentle.If you stick a finger in when it's running it feels soft and gentle. Here you can see some very small pieces of obsidian (Tears)at the bottom of the photo that are not chipped or cracked.No sugar,no molasses,no Betty Crocker anything either! LOL This experiment your doing with the obsidian is VERY interesting and without those great photos it wouldn't be nearly as good for all of us to be able to relate to the whole thing. From this,,, To this,,,, Tells us all a lot abut what's really going on and your obsidian isn't even finished yet! You're going through a lot of work and taking a lot of time to stop the tumbler,wash the obsidian off,set it up for photos,choose which photos you will use,crop them,post them to a public web site,come here,write about you progress and then finally post the photos! MUCH appreciated James! connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 19, 2014 8:56:48 GMT -5
"You master's of vibrators are brave"I don't know about other vibes but although a Lot-O-Tumbler looks like it has a violent action it's actually VERY gentle.If you stick a finger in when it's running it feels soft and gentle. Here you can see some very small pieces of obsidian (Tears)at the bottom of the photo that are not chipped or cracked.No sugar,no molasses,no Betty Crocker anything either! LOL This experiment your doing with the obsidian is VERY interesting and without those great photos it wouldn't be nearly as good for all of us to be able to relate to the whole thing. Tells us all a lot abut what's really going on and your obsidian isn't even finished yet! You're going through a lot of work and taking a lot of time to stop the tumbler,wash the obsidian off,set it up for photos,choose which photos you will use,crop them,post them to a public web site,come here,write about you progress and then finally post the photos! MUCH appreciated James! connrock Trying to get it right in the rotary Tom. Taking pictures is the only tool I have, and they are a bit sub-standard. Posting makes a diary for me, might as well share. Just trudging through this thing. Thanks for the advise and kind words. I suppose the end result will tell all. Was glad to see the impact pits, I knew that tumbler was not filled enough in one of those grinds. If that type of damage can be avoided the obsidian should work out. Will not be surprised if one of those finishing grits did not run long enough. Will find out in the next few days in AO 1 micron, it will sure tell on you. Got some more photos after 24 hours in 1 micron this morning. Progress, but slow, but faster than agate !!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 19, 2014 8:59:04 GMT -5
I saw the shiny rose quartz you tumbled James. I am watching you and find your battle very!!!!# interesting.... I got faith your obsidian is gonna gleam! Battle it is orrum. Been wearing a feathered head dress for several weeks.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Sept 19, 2014 9:33:52 GMT -5
This is no where near a nice polish, but big improvement after 24 hours. Photo taken to show sheen starting to peek thru: Angle changed to turn sheen off. Camera focused on reflection of rim of desk lamp. Starting to reflect less bright light source. This good. Reflected surface shows pits still alive and well. Pits gotta go. May be too deep for 1 micron polish. Could be from short run in AO 1000, or other prior steps. May require washing and adding fresh AO 1 micron and running again. But it's only been 24 hours. Gotta connect the bright spots. Patience man. In lower light:
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