On the Merits of Licking Rocks

[mohs]

I wish I had read those cinnabar warnings before grinding that heart
whatever doesn't kill you- makes you wake at 5 in the evening
m`

[mohs]

Funny- I was reading Ken Keasy Merry Pranksters
Acid Test from the 60’s
They considered themselves searcher
They wanted to know if the fluid from rocks boiled in water could intoxicate
So that what they did
Boiled rocks in water and drank it
Some lived to write another day

[gemfeller]

Whenever I'm in the mood to lick something I look around for psychedelic frogs. Haven't found one yet -- but as they say, I've kissed a lot of frogs.

[Jugglerguy]

Is rocklicker still well enough to comment?

[barclay]

Someone on one of these boards posted a MSDS for malachite and said look the only metal in it is copper so it is "safe". I had to point out to them that the MSDS was for the ideal chemically pure version of malachite and could not be taken as gospel for actual malachite that is mined. Natural malachite probably has some lead, nickel, zinc and other metals. Sometimes those "trace" elements are more dangerous than the main ingredients.

[marinedad]

don't want to lick any turquoise orrum soaked in horse urine. hi bill! I forget if it enhances the color.

[shermandukejewelry]

A plastic spray bottle is safer.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2016 2:16:13 GMT -5 robertm said:

Hi All,
Here is an article posted in our local newsletter, sorry if it is too
long!!

POTENTIALLY TOXIC OR HARMFUL STONES
FOR GEM ELIXIRS, GEM WATERS, MASSAGE OILS, HANDLING, ETC.
I've been asked many times about whether a certain stone is safe for making conventional gem elixirs, gem waters, massage oils, or other internal or absorbent uses. While any stone can be potentially harmful for fumes, or dust, here is some information on stones that are known to be toxic in certain situations.
While some of these minerals are micronutrients, such as copper which we need to survive, they can also be extremely toxic in larger amounts than required by the body.
Please be aware that this is an partial list, as I don't know all the possible toxicity information. Some I learned in college, from crystal experts, or from books. Before using any stone or crystal for elixirs or waters, you should personally make sure that it's safe by consulting a mineralogist, healthcare specialist, or other professional.
Types of stones that are typically toxic to ingest are minerals/ metals containing copper, lead, arsenic, cadmium, aluminium, barium, mercury, zinc, or other poisonous / toxic substances. These substances are often what give a stone its characteristic coloring or shape. Great to look at, great to hold, but not great to put in the body. Where I have information on it, I've noted the toxic material that is or may be in the stone.




Actinolite - asbestos
Adamite - zinc, copper
Amazonite - copper
Amber - toxic dust, fumes, possible trapped bacteria or virii, possible ingestive toxicity
Angelite - lead, sulphur
Anthophyllite - asbestos
Aragonite - sometimes contains lead
Atacamite - copper
Atlantisite - contains Serpentine (see below)
Auricalcite - zinc and copper
Azurite - copper
Boji-stones/Kansas Pop Rocks - may contain sulphur
Bronchantite - copper
Celestite aka Celestine - aluminium
Cerrusite - sulphur, molybdenum
Chalcantite (aka "blue shit") - copper
Chalcopyrite (Peacock Stone, Peacock Ore) - copper and sulphur
Charoite - barium, strontium
Chrysacolla (Chrysocolla) - copper
Chrysotile - asbestos
Cinnabar - mercury, VERY TOXIC
Cobaltocalcite (Pink Cobalt Calcite) - cobalt
Conicalcite - copper
Copper - copper
Coral - organic, may contain bacteria as well as pollutants from toxic materials in the water it forms in
Chrysoprase - nickel
Crocidolite - asbestos
Cuprite - copper
Diopside - copper
Dioptase - copper
Eliat Stone - copper
Emerald - aluminium
Feldspar - aluminium
Fluorite - source of dangerous gas hydrofluoride
Garnet - aluminium
Gem Silica - copper
Galena/ Galenite - lead
Garnierite (Genthite, Falcondoite) - nickel
Hematite - iron
Hiddenite - aluminium
Howlite - boron, boron oxide, borate
Iolite - aluminium
Jade (Jadeite) - aluminium, iron
Jade (Nephrite) - aluminium, iron, titanium
Kambaba Jasper - cyanobacteria and possible cyanotoxins
Kansas Pop Rocks - may contain sulphur
Kunzite - aluminium
Kyanite - aluminium
Labradorite - aluminium
Lapis Lazuli - may contain copper, sulphur
Leopard (Skin) Jasper - iron
Marcasite (Markasite) - sulphur
Magnetite (Lodestone) - iron in large quantities
Malachite - copper
Merlinite - barite, iron
Meteorite - may contain many toxic substances
Mohawkite - copper, arsenic
Moldavite - aluminium
Molybdenum - molybdenum
Moonstone - may contain aluminium or other toxic substances
Mother of Pearl - organic, may contain bacteria as well as pollutants from toxic materials in the water it forms in
Ocean Jasper - iron
Opal - toxic dust for inhalation at least
Paraiba Blue Quartz - aluminium in the tourmaline component
Pearl - organic, may contain bacteria as well as pollutants from toxic materials in the water it forms in
Psiomelane - barium
Pyrite (Fool's Gold, Inca Gold) - sulphur
Quartz (all types) - toxic dust for inhalation
Realgar - sulfur, arsenic
Rhodocrosite (Rhodochrosite) - lead
Rose Quartz - iron / titanium
Ruby - aluminium
Sapphire - aluminium
Sepentine (fibrous type) - asbestos
Sodalite - aluminium
Spinel - may contain aluminium, zinc
Stibnite - lead, antimony
Smithsonite (Galmei, Zinc spar)- zinc, may contain copper
Spinel - aluminium
Spodumene (incl Kunzite, Hiddenite) - aluminium
Strawberry Quartz (natural) - hematite/iron inclusions
Stromatolite - cyanobacteria and possible cyanotoxins
Sulphur - sulphur
Sunstone - Aluminium
Tiger's Eye - asbestos
Topaz - aluminium
Tourmaline - aluminium
Tremolite - asbestos
Turquoise - copper
Unakite - aluminium/iron
Uranium - radioactive mineral
Vanadanite - lead
Variscite - aluminium
Wulfenite - lead, molybdenum

I recommend avoiding and not making conventional gem elixirs, gem waters, massage oils, or other consumables with these stones. The guidelines below can help you and those you know stay safe.
1. Do not make conventional, direct gemstone elixirs, gem waters, massage oils of any stone containing metal (lead, copper, etc.) Use an indirect method instead.
2. FYI: Polished stones are less likely to allow elixirs, etc. to leach any potentially hazardous materials. Rough stones are most likely.
3. In general, almost all blue and green stones, especially brightly colored ones, contain copper and/or arsenic and are potentially unsafe to use for conventional gem elixirs, etc.
4. Shiny, metallic stones should be avoided.
5. Don't handle stones containing arsenic, such as realgar, or mercury, such as cinnabar without protective gloves. Wash hands thoroughly with soap and water after handling them. These stones are extremely toxic.
6. Do not eat, drink, or smoke while handling potentially toxic stones.
7. Keep all potentially harmful stones (including small, bite-sized stones that aren't necessarily toxic but can cause choking hazards!) out of reach of children for safety.
You may find contradictory information elsewhere as to the potential hazards of crystals. I recommend being cautious, though, and using indirect methods for making elixirs and other consumables unless you're absolutely certain of what you're doing. To be on the safe side, consider these stones, and any stones you don't know for sure about, to be toxic to eat, drink, or otherwise consume.

Lists like this are nearly complete bullshit.

First off.

Asbestos is zero risk to rock lickers.

Second of all aluminum is the most common metal on earth and is hardly toxic at all. Notice you drink soda from aluminum cans.

Next in beryl the beryllium if far more toxic than aluminum. But is inert chemically tied up with aluminum and oxygen. Notice emeralds are popular gems stones? Would you buy a toxic gemstone for your lover? No? Hmm..

Yeah, generic lists are bullshit. Just ask Penn and Teller.

If someone were to research potentially toxic minerals used in lapidary and make an annotated list? Then they have my attention.

Wanna lick bumblebee Jasper? Probably a bad idea, but nothing says it's ACTUALLY a bad idea.


Cinnabar? Not a common lapidary mineral. Myrickite? Best left to older folks. Mercury is a slow poison.[kidding!!!] Don't lick copper arsenic, plutonium, mercury ores....

Anyway, lists made this way are irresponsible, lacking any real authority and are best ignored. Plus they may dissuade hobbyists from some wonderful materials.

ETA ocean Jasper is toxic because of iron? But every single other Jasper is left off the list? The person who made that list must not have any blood... Omg....

[Deleted]

And corals and pearls don't have dangerous bacteria, except perhaps to corals and oysters. Who made that oops-list anyways?

[mohs]

so my cinnabar heart not poisonous enough ?

[vegasjames]

Sept 16, 2016 9:48:56 GMT -5 barclay said:

Sept 16, 2016 1:29:25 GMT -5 vegasjames said:

Cinnabar is not all that toxic. It actually has been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years.  People seem to think that just because it contains mercury that it is the same as elemental mercury or methyl mercury.

Vegas you are wrong. There is no such thing as "safe" mercury compounds. There is a reason there are so many hazardous material and safety regulations about mercury. In the old days I would say that every culture used some toxic compound for medicinal purposes. The Victorians gave their women arsenic because it gave them a nice pale complexion. In the 1800s we gave babies lead compounds for colic, etc. Once cinnabar gets on your skin it has the potential to be absorbed, ingested or inhaled where it can get metabolized in to more toxic forms. It is fine to look at, but i certainly not handle it or work it. Two years ago a vendor was selling cinnabar in opal at a local rock show. I asked her if she knew what cinnabar was and she did. She said that the cinnabar was "locked up" in the opal and could not come out. Being that opal is basically compressed sand I would say that it can't "lock up" anything.
"

I did not say "safe".  I said "not all that toxic".  People are trying to compare cinnabar (mercury sulfide) with elemental mercury or methyl mercury. They ARE NOT the same thing!!!!  That is as ridiculous as claiming calcium is good for you so ingesting elemental calcium is good for you.  Same with the other alkali minerals we rely on.

Metals and their minerals or compounds do not always have the same properties.  For example organic germanium (Bis betacarboxyethyl germanium sesquioxide) is not only very safe but also fantastic for the health and killing cancer cells.  Elemental germanium though will shut your kidneys down immediately.  Trivalent chromium helps with blood sugar regulation by opening insulin receptors.  Hexavalent chromium can give you cancer.

Getting back to cinnabar again I never said safe.  Anything can be dangerous in excess or if used improperly.  Drink too much water in a short period of time and you will disrupt your electrolytes leading to brain swelling and death (water intoxication).  Water can also kill you by drowning, being buried by a snow avalanche, getting squashed by a large chunk of ice, etc. So should we all go Chicken Little and start warning everyone to avoid dihydrogen oxide because it has the potential to cause death? Of course not.  My point is that cinnabar IS NOT as toxic as elemental mercury or methyl mercury. And the Chinese used it and used it successfully for thousands of years without the toxic effects than occur with elemental or methyl mercury, which again ARE NOT the same thing!

[dottyt]

Sept 16, 2016 22:10:36 GMT -5 @shotgunner said:

ETA ocean Jasper is toxic because of iron? But every single other Jasper is left off the list? The person who made that list must not have any blood... Omg....

I hate to tell you all this but Shotgunner is very wrong here and his information is deplorable. I suspect he is part of Big Rock, which is far worse than Big Pharma and Big Box stores put together. And way more nefarious and secretive too. DO NOT TRUST HIM. Ocean Jasper is very toxic, yes because of the iron, and more!!! I cannot even list all the bad minerals in it, it makes my head spin. Plus, there is an even worse problem associated with it that has been covered up. It can *spontaneously ignite*. Worse than a Telsa battery, worse than your Chinese hover board. Think of it! You go to bed at night thinking everything is fine, then in the morning your loved ones, your rocks, even your lapidary equipment are gone! You may even be seriously injured or killed yourself!

But there is a solution! I will take your Ocean Jasper off your hands and safely dispose of it. Because I am very selfless and brave, I will even do this free of charge. Just carefully, very carefully (remember it could go up at any time) put it in a plastic bag, cushion it well and mail it to me. Then you can feel safe again.

Larger pieces with bright colors and interesting designs are especially dangerous! So don't wait! Do it now!

You're welcome.

[vegasjames]

Sept 16, 2016 22:10:36 GMT -5 @shotgunner said:

Lists like this are nearly complete bullshit.

First off.

Asbestos is zero risk to rock lickers.

Second of all aluminum is the most common metal on earth and is hardly toxic at all. Notice you drink soda from aluminum cans.

Next in beryl the beryllium if far more toxic than aluminum. But is inert chemically tied up with aluminum and oxygen. Notice emeralds are popular gems stones? Would you buy a toxic gemstone for your lover? No? Hmm..

Yeah, generic lists are bullshit. Just ask Penn and Teller.

If someone were to research potentially toxic minerals used in lapidary and make an annotated list? Then they have my attention.

Wanna lick bumblebee Jasper? Probably a bad idea, but nothing says it's ACTUALLY a bad idea.


Cinnabar? Not a common lapidary mineral. Myrickite? Best left to older folks. Mercury is a slow poison.[kidding!!!] Don't lick copper arsenic, plutonium, mercury ores....

Anyway, lists made this way are irresponsible, lacking any real authority and are best ignored. Plus they may dissuade hobbyists from some wonderful materials.

ETA ocean Jasper is toxic because of iron? But every single other Jasper is left off the list? The person who made that list must not have any blood... Omg....

I totally agree.

If you look at the list it is ridiculous. 

For instance they list rocks with sulfur as being toxic.  Onions, garlic and broccoli also contain sulfur. That does not make them toxic. Sulfur is actually essential to the body for tissue formation and detoxification.

Copper is also essential to the body for tissue formation and red blood cell formation.

Boron is essential for healthy bones.

Plants we eat pick up aluminum from the soil all the time yet I have never seen anyone die from aluminum poisoning from eating a salad.

Titanium is also in toothpaste among other things.

Wines are notorious for their lead content.  In fact, I bet if tested that many California wines will have a higher lead content than allowed by California's proposition 65.

And so on and so forth.

Some people are again also ignoring the fact that toxicity is dependent on a variety of things such as form of the potential toxin, route of exposure, levels, of exposure, etc.  For example as I mentioned earlier you cannot ingest alkali elements without being harmed or killed.  As a mineral complex though many are essential to our health.  Cinnabar is a mercury compound but does not have the toxicity level of elemental or methyl mercury.  Silica can be ingested and is actually essential to building collagen, elastin and chondroitin in the body, but if inhaled in larger amounts over a long period of time can lead to silicosis.

I have seen people freak out over if I am handling Tiffany stone due to the beryllium content that may be present.  One guy I know is always telling people to go wash their hands after handling one of my Tiffany stone cabs, which is utterly ridiculous.  If it were that toxic why are we even using it as jewelry?  They are acting like you are handing people pure radioactive plutonium!  A lot of Tiffany stone does not even contain any beryllium because it is so scarce in the ore often being from 0 ppm to something like .04ppm at its highest.

There are still some rocks that must me handled with care and some protection is a good idea if cabbing them.  Congo malachite and bumblebee jasper for example due to the arsenic.  Abalone shell also need to be worked with while having mask on due to the arsenic and heavy metals that can get incorporated in to the shell.

But to claim something like rubies are toxic due to the aluminum content is simply ridiculous. You are not going to get sick or die from the aluminum oxide if handling it and I doubt you would absorb any aluminum oxide at all if you licked a ruby.

[vegasjames]

Sept 16, 2016 15:05:26 GMT -5 gemfeller said:

Whenever I'm in the mood to lick something I look around for psychedelic frogs. Haven't found one yet -- but as they say, I've kissed a lot of frogs.

Try the Colorado River.  Colorado River toads contain the toxic alkaloid bufoteine in their skin.  Supposedly also generated by the Jackson illusion pepper.

[vegasjames]

Sept 16, 2016 17:08:07 GMT -5 barclay said:

Someone on one of these boards posted a MSDS for malachite and said look the only metal in it is copper so it is "safe". I had to point out to them that the MSDS was for the ideal chemically pure version of malachite and could not be taken as gospel for actual malachite that is mined. Natural malachite probably has some lead, nickel, zinc and other metals. Sometimes those "trace" elements are more dangerous than the main ingredients.

The concern with Congo malachite is its arsenic content. Not the copper.

[vegasjames]

Sept 16, 2016 18:59:52 GMT -5 marinedad said:

don't want to lick any turquoise orrum soaked in horse urine. hi bill! I forget if it enhances the color.

It always amazes me at how people figure some things out like this.  I mean was someone washing the underside of their horse while wearing a turquoise ring when the horse decided to pee and they said "look, my turquoise is so much bluer".  And why not cat urine?  Or human urine, which is so much more common and readily available especially at bars where they are serving pitchers of beer. And would the beer's high purine content increasing urinary uric acid content enhance the color even more.  So many possibilities yet someone stumbled upon horse urine.

Then there is the fact that concentrated human urine was the first hormone replacement therapy.  Nowadays they prefer to use pregnant mare's urine (Premarin), which is thousands of times stronger.

And in the old days people would brush their teeth with urine to whiten the teeth.

And soaking your new blue jeans in urine first helps fix the color to slow fading.

And yellow snow found in the wild is not the same as pineapple shaved ice!!!

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2016 1:22:11 GMT -5 vegasjames said:

Sept 16, 2016 15:05:26 GMT -5 gemfeller said:

Whenever I'm in the mood to lick something I look around for psychedelic frogs. Haven't found one yet -- but as they say, I've kissed a lot of frogs.

Try the Colorado River.  Colorado River toads contain the toxic alkaloid bufoteine in their skin.  Supposedly also generated by the Jackson illusion pepper.

But to get a "Colorado River Road" one must be well east of the river.



James, I'm ribbing you. They changed the common name to better match the habitat. Bufo alvarius is now known as the Sonoran Toad!

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2016 1:12:11 GMT -5 dottyt said:

Sept 16, 2016 22:10:36 GMT -5 @shotgunner said:

ETA ocean Jasper is toxic because of iron? But every single other Jasper is left off the list? The person who made that list must not have any blood... Omg....

I hate to tell you all this but Shotgunner is very wrong here and his information is deplorable. I suspect he is part of Big Rock, which is far worse than Big Pharma and Big Box stores put together. And way more nefarious and secretive too. DO NOT TRUST HIM. Ocean Jasper is very toxic, yes because of the iron, and more!!! I cannot even list all the bad minerals in it, it makes my head spin. Plus, there is an even worse problem associated with it that has been covered up. It can *spontaneously ignite*. Worse than a Telsa battery, worse than your Chinese hover board. Think of it! You go to bed at night thinking everything is fine, then in the morning your loved ones, your rocks, even your lapidary equipment are gone! You may even be seriously injured or killed yourself!

But there is a solution! I will take your Ocean Jasper off your hands and safely dispose of it. Because I am very selfless and brave, I will even do this free of charge. Just carefully, very carefully (remember it could go up at any time) put it in a plastic bag, cushion it well and mail it to me. Then you can feel safe again.

Larger pieces with bright colors and interesting designs are especially dangerous! So don't wait! Do it now!

You're welcome.

E-huggz for you Dotty.

A fantastic post to start my sales day!

Thanks!

[mohs]

dottyt said: Big Rock, which is far worse than Big Pharma and Big Box stores put together.

According to Mohs, the Big Rock conspiracy theory has four classic traits: first, the assumption that the conspiracy is perpetrated by a small malevolent cadre of lapidaries; secondly, belief that the public at large is ignorant of Big Rocks and rocks in general; thirdly, that its believers treat lack of rocks as never having enough time or locations to hound, BLM issues or not enough money; and finally, that the arguments deployed in support of the theory as rocks in the head.

M`

[1dave]

Very late to this thread, but from the starting article,

If you don’t want to lick a rock because that seems socially unacceptable, you can alternatively lick your finger and then stick it on the rock with the same effect. This is an acceptable form of rock-licking as well, although arguably far less enjoyable.

A way to get salt.