lookatthat
Cave Dweller
Whatever there is to be found.
Member since May 2017
Posts: 1,360
|
Post by lookatthat on Jun 8, 2017 13:06:09 GMT -5
How many Dust Bunnies does it take to polish a pound of rocks ? It depends how well trained they are.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Jun 8, 2017 14:36:53 GMT -5
I realize you want perfect stones to move to the next stage, but sometimes the material just won't allow that. I'm tumbling a bunch of Botswana agates right now, and I try to remove the pits and flaws and cracks as best I can, but in the real world sometimes you can never remove them all, and you just have to move the stones forward when you feel they are the best that you can make them. -Don Kind of dealing with that (Bots) right now myself. I'm finding myself trying to get that "happy medium" between flawless and going too far, though I'm still pushing the limit and testing how far I can go. Sometimes the rocks cooperate - sometimes not. With some other varieties, I've already learned to live with pits and such. No amount of tumbling will remove them, so I just move them along when well shaped. Haven't yet started to preform, but that's on the horizon. Dave
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 18, 2017 3:29:16 GMT -5
It takes good rocks to get good tumbles. Crap in = crap out. Look at each rock you put in your tumbler as if it were a chunk of glass with no cracks, divots, pockets. No different than a diamond with no flaws. The less flaws the more the value. Agates and jasper and pet wood(any rocks used for tumbling) no different. Tricky part is finding quality rocks. This is coral I hammered out of bigger stones. Most were ground on diamond cup. Probably removed half of the rock getting rid of cracks, pits, divots. Many more were tossed because they did not make the cut. For instance, if the left half of the rock has cracks or porosity it was ground off prior to tumbling. If it was left to the tumbler it would have had to tumble to nothing. Call it selective removal of defects. I learn so much from all you guys and gals late at night and especially you Jim. Cant begin to thank you enough for all the knowledge and comraderie that you provide to all of us. Thanks !!
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 18, 2017 7:50:07 GMT -5
It takes good rocks to get good tumbles. Crap in = crap out. Look at each rock you put in your tumbler as if it were a chunk of glass with no cracks, divots, pockets. No different than a diamond with no flaws. The less flaws the more the value. Agates and jasper and pet wood(any rocks used for tumbling) no different. Tricky part is finding quality rocks. This is coral I hammered out of bigger stones. Most were ground on diamond cup. Probably removed half of the rock getting rid of cracks, pits, divots. Many more were tossed because they did not make the cut. For instance, if the left half of the rock has cracks or porosity it was ground off prior to tumbling. If it was left to the tumbler it would have had to tumble to nothing. Call it selective removal of defects. I learn so much from all you guys and gals late at night and especially you Jim. Cant begin to thank you enough for all the knowledge and comraderie that you provide to all of us. Thanks !!
That diamond cup grinder does make tumbling a pleasure. Hell, in many cases a rock has to be ground done to way more than half it's original size to get all the defects out of it. Lot's of waste. But consider sawing the sweet spots out of a rock to get the best cabs...lots of waste too. In the coral rivers I will set a comfortable chair on a rock bar and hammer tumbles. So much coral. May only keep 20% of the rocks I chip off. The el primos. Instead of carrying back 10-20 pound coral heads in the boat and trashing most of it at home. Or sledge out primo core chunks.
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 18, 2017 9:13:55 GMT -5
I learn so much from all you guys and gals late at night and especially you Jim. Cant begin to thank you enough for all the knowledge and comraderie that you provide to all of us. Thanks !!
That diamond cup grinder does make tumbling a pleasure. Hell, in many cases a rock has to be ground done to way more than half it's original size to get all the defects out of it. Lot's of waste. But consider sawing the sweet spots out of a rock to get the best cabs...lots of waste too. In the coral rivers I will set a comfortable chair on a rock bar and hammer tumbles. So much coral. May only keep 20% of the rocks I chip off. The el primos. Instead of carrying back 10-20 pound coral heads in the boat and trashing most of it at home. Or sledge out primo core chunks. That's why you make the big money Jim and our yards are full of waste rock.. grin. Wouldn't have a picture of that cup grinder? Get some dings in your hands running it?
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 18, 2017 14:55:49 GMT -5
Thanks James for telling the reality. So many people who sell you a set of grits,tumblers or tumble rock just sell you the fantasy and the really successful people like RTH family folks dig deeper and help the newer family to get it right if they really want to do a good job. Just grind all your good parts of the rock to rock mud if you don't clean them up and do a gppd job prepping. Just getting this figured out now. Thanks Jim Have a low humidity day. Have extra room in the house if you guys want to sneak away to the cool mountains for a week, month... C
The good part of pre-grind. Perfect tumbles in only 2 weeks of coarse grind. That is about how long it takes to remove the grind marks. JAmes, Tried Chicago Dave's borax slurry idea in the polish stages in vibe and they are super shiny, super quick. Know that you probably aware and have done similar things. Here's his recipe for anyone who want shinier rocks. Chicago Dave Standard "recipe" 46/70 SiC in my QT-66. Weekly clean outs. Pulled rocks when ready. 2 tablespoons 120/220 SiC for 2 days in Lot-O 1/2 teaspoon 500 AO + 1 tablespoon Borax for 2 days in Lot-O 1/2 teaspoon 1000 AO + 1 tablespoon Borax for 2 days in Lot-O 1/2 teaspoon Polish + 1 tablespoon Borax for 2 days in Lot-O 2 tablespoons Borax as a final burnish for 5 hours in Lot-O
The borax really makes a difference. Noticed it on his kambaba and mine were matte unless I polished for days, 2 days and mine are now polished. he also uses less materials
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 18, 2017 15:39:31 GMT -5
Borax is the way to go. Especially for final polish coloradocliff. And a sure fire recipe.
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Jun 18, 2017 15:59:26 GMT -5
I learn so much from all you guys and gals late at night and especially you Jim. Cant begin to thank you enough for all the knowledge and comraderie that you provide to all of us. Thanks !!
That diamond cup grinder does make tumbling a pleasure. Hell, in many cases a rock has to be ground done to way more than half it's original size to get all the defects out of it. Lot's of waste. But consider sawing the sweet spots out of a rock to get the best cabs...lots of waste too. In the coral rivers I will set a comfortable chair on a rock bar and hammer tumbles. So much coral. May only keep 20% of the rocks I chip off. The el primos. Instead of carrying back 10-20 pound coral heads in the boat and trashing most of it at home. Or sledge out primo core chunks. are you tossing a lot of the plain ones? that are solid enough to use as a supplement for ceramics?
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 18, 2017 16:05:37 GMT -5
That diamond cup grinder does make tumbling a pleasure. Hell, in many cases a rock has to be ground done to way more than half it's original size to get all the defects out of it. Lot's of waste. But consider sawing the sweet spots out of a rock to get the best cabs...lots of waste too. In the coral rivers I will set a comfortable chair on a rock bar and hammer tumbles. So much coral. May only keep 20% of the rocks I chip off. The el primos. Instead of carrying back 10-20 pound coral heads in the boat and trashing most of it at home. Or sledge out primo core chunks. are you tossing a lot of the plain ones? that are solid enough to use as a supplement for ceramics? Some folks are using pea gravel for fines. Morerockspleas does
|
|
notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
|
Post by notjustone on Jun 18, 2017 16:19:21 GMT -5
I just use some of the plainer looking rocks bust them up smaller run lots of smalls. cant see adding ceramics or gravel just to make up volume or add smalls to the barrel.
|
|
|
Post by coloradocliff on Jun 18, 2017 16:35:11 GMT -5
In the rotary I began running the cat litter slurry to stop the bruising. Works well. 12 oz cheap clay based litter/ 15 pound barrel. .. Making gravy.. But the vibes are a different animal. The darn ceramics are pricy but sure do speed action in the vibes. Save bucks if you run regular granels but cost you in grit, electric and wear and tear for no end product. Of course the ugly rocks aren't going to be used for anything except tumble rounds so gravel might be good if you cant get the right gravels. Someone will come along and give us a great idea.
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
|
Post by Fossilman on Jun 18, 2017 16:47:20 GMT -5
I work some stones on my grinder for uniform,before I roll them....Its work,but worth the effort after the last polish clean out!
|
|
rollingstone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2009
Posts: 236
|
Post by rollingstone on Jun 18, 2017 17:09:37 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm going to have to retract my statement on page one of this thread that the fine grind does not shape the surface at all. I have been running a large river-rounded jasper with a bunch of smaller stones, and have been weighing how much mass was lost from the large stone each time. Starting weight going into the barrel was 1312 grams, or just shy of 3 pounds.
First week of coarse grind removed 20 grams Second week of coarse grind removed 23 grams Third week of coarse grind removed 23 grams
I then ran it twice through 120/220. I did it twice because I had too many pellets in the barrel the first time, so when I did a clean out I could feel remaining grit and under 10X magnification I could see that it had broken down to only maybe half its original size. So I cleaned out and recharged. I was expecting the double fine grind to remove only a gram or two, but it actually removed 29 grams!
Maybe this is an unusual case because the rock is so large, but in this case at least it seems fine grind smooths the surface (I can see under 10X magnification that the surface is much smoother), but it did this by removing about the equivalent of one run through coarse grind.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jun 18, 2017 19:36:27 GMT -5
Quartz pea gravel, nice agate or any Mohs 7 smalls. Only in the vibe though notjustone. Don't do smalls in the rotary. Just a mix of sizes. 100% target stones. May run 10-20% pea size small stuff IF IT'S PRETTY in the rotary. It would have to be a targeted small.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jul 30, 2017 6:33:49 GMT -5
The good part of pre-grind. Perfect tumbles in only 2 weeks of coarse grind. That is about how long it takes to remove the grind marks. What profile of diamond cup wheels do you prefer for this and for all purpose useage? Turbbo, double row? etc. Who has the best value from vendors? The best pre-grinder I have come up with is a $99 tile saw with a $27 Advanta 7 inch tuck wheel. Wheel is 1/4" wide. Sharper than sharp. 1/2 HP motor, 3600 RPM, slot in table for safety, ground fault protected for adding water to the grind, super smooth rotation. The trick is the 3600 RPM directly mounted on a well balanced tile saw motor. Then the Advanta tuck blade with it's sharp diamonds. At that speed the cutting rate is greatly increased. I don't suggest doing small rocks. Maybe 1.5 inches and bigger to avoid proximity to wheel. No matter what configuration grinder you use, grinding small rocks means putting your fingers in jeopardy. Mind you diamond wheels don't cut fingers like wood saw blades. My fingers have bumped that blade on numerous occasions and never bleed. Thins skin though. It will grow back.
|
|
Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,709
|
Post by Fossilman on Jul 30, 2017 8:49:47 GMT -5
I also have a client that wants her tumbles rough,just like nature had them,but with a shine.. That's makes it easier for me..LOL They sell like hot cakes... I don't have to form,grind or any hard work to uniform them....Others,well they get fussy..LOL
|
|
|
Post by grumpybill on Jul 30, 2017 13:46:03 GMT -5
Mind you diamond wheels don't cut fingers like wood saw blades. My fingers have bumped that blade on numerous occasions and never bleed. Thins skin though. It will grow back. You're more likely to get cut on a segmented blade or wheel than one with continuous sintering. The diamonds don't do much damage to skin during momentary contact, but the edges of the segments can really rip you up.
|
|
jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,553
|
Post by jamesp on Jul 30, 2017 15:09:07 GMT -5
Mind you diamond wheels don't cut fingers like wood saw blades. My fingers have bumped that blade on numerous occasions and never bleed. Thins skin though. It will grow back. You're more likely to get cut on a segmented blade or wheel than one with continuous sintering. The diamonds don't do much damage to skin during momentary contact, but the edges of the segments can really rip you up. At 3600 RPM the notches are not noticeable. Even when pushing the pointed edge of the rock against the wheel there are no noticeable vibration on the rock due to the gaps. 3600 RPM is buzzing, 60 turns per second. Those 3/16" gaps are only there for a very short time. Like 1/1000th of a second. If they are causing any bumping on the rock I sure can't feel it. Grinds smooth as silk. The 2300 RPM grinder must have slop in the bearings and it vibrates the rock. The vibration causes a more unsafe situation because it is hard to hold the rock. So far the diamonds on the Advanta blade have worn down about 25% and it is still not out-of-round using the tile saw. That is the other problem. Vibration causes bounce which in turn causes uneven wear which basically causes an out-of-round situation. No matter how precision your rotating equipment is an out-of-round blade is a big problem. The trick is to have a precision concentric rotating shaft. The tile motor fit the bill. The least of problems is the gaps in the blade. You would think, but not so at such speed.
|
|
|
Post by grumpybill on Jul 30, 2017 15:31:14 GMT -5
The speed may have something to do with it. My experience is with masonry saws which may turn slower. I have the scars to prove that segmented blades/wheels can/will cut you. (The edges of the segments are like the teeth on a wood cutting blade.) I also know from experience that dry-cut diamond blades get hot enough to instantly cauterize any dumb moves on the part of the operator.
|
|
lookatthat
Cave Dweller
Whatever there is to be found.
Member since May 2017
Posts: 1,360
|
Post by lookatthat on Aug 17, 2017 10:00:08 GMT -5
Update: In the end, I noticed the med. grit did remove some minor surface flaws -- more than I expected. But the major work happens with the coarse. When I moved them into the medium grit, it was with the expectation that I may just have to put up with some of the flaws, as my rocks were disappearing. I was pleased with the result.
|
|