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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 9, 2017 21:34:25 GMT -5
I have been told that it is normal to see black plastic shavings (small spots) sprinkled over rocks and ceramics at the completion of each stage of a vibratory tumble… especially if you are breaking-in a new bowl. They are generated as the stones and grit grind against the insides of the bowl causing very small pieces of the plastic composite material to fragment off and infect the load with rock-measles.
As the new bowl breaks-in over repeated uses, the amount of plastic shavings will decrease. Normal wear-n-tare… Not much you can do about it but give the stones and ceramics a good wash down and add a nice long burnish stage to follow the polish stage (Let your stones luxuriate in a bubble bath of Ivory soap and Borax). The more porous the stone… the longer the burnish needs to be to get the spots out.
Introducing a burnishing stage before the polish stage assures you that the stones will enter that stage nice and clean… But… the polish stage itself will generate a fresh case of rock measles to infect the load. It is the most visible because of the contrast between the white polish slurry and the black plastic shavings. I use a dedicated polish bowl which has less use than my normal grit bowl… so it will generate even more plastic shavings!
The big question… Will the final shine be even, or will the spots prevent the polish abrasive reaching down to the stone? (Like a person sunbathing on a beach getting an uneven tan because some kid put a cardboard butterfly cut-out on their stomach as they slept.)
Normal… BUT… Still something I find myself agonizing over – especially when tumbling a porous material like Picture Jasper in my vibe. The black shavings seem to be attracted to the pours and the resulting shine does not seem as lustrous as the other stones.
For porous stones… Would a second polish stage be helpful – after the first polish stage gets out of its burnishing bubble bath?
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Post by captbob on Oct 9, 2017 22:42:39 GMT -5
I'm not so sure that is normal, but we have discussed this here in the past.
I have 3 UV-10 bowls, 1 which had the black slough off and 2 which did not.
I believe there are numbers on the bottom of all these bowls - a small number in a circle. My bowl with a #4 on the bottom was the one that lost material, and the bowls with #3s (I think, it has been awhile) never did that. May have the #s mixed up.
Maybe it was a "bad" production run of bowls?
dunno ...
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 10, 2017 3:03:57 GMT -5
Sharp edges on fresh ceramic media can cut plastic. Best to rotary tumble ceramic media to get the sharp edges rounded off. I doubt the shavings will influence your polish.
My PVC rotary barrels wear. A fresh batch of sharp rocks really leaves the inside of the barrel roughed up in the first week. After that the sharp edges are ground off of the rocks and the PVC smooths out. Plastic is being removed. Rubber and polyurethane is way more abrasion resistant. PVC and polyethylene will abrade.
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Post by youp50 on Oct 10, 2017 4:18:39 GMT -5
I have not experienced any plastic shavings in my bowl. I do have a bunch of small lakers I use in place of ceramics. I did vibe some large agates to clean the patina of age from them. I used some well rounded ceramics to scrub the shellac off.
There is picture Jasper starting in the rotary, thanks for the heads up, I will be watching for the savings.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 10, 2017 4:38:57 GMT -5
In most cases there are no sharp rocks in a vibe. Virgin ceramic media with sharp edges is best not run in a vibe.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Oct 10, 2017 9:03:08 GMT -5
I get the shavings in my UV18 bowls. Less and less as I use them. Never seems to hurt anything. I do not believe they affect the final polish at all. They do seem to get impacted into any cracks or even embedded in softer porous spots however.
In my experience the thinner and wetter the slurry the more the shavings will appear. In my last run (dedicated polish bowl) I saw little to any of the stuff until I got a little more water in than I wanted. There was enough plastic to turn the white polish to a light grey. Rocks came out with a mirror shine.
I think a thicker slurry is a benefit. When the action slows in my UV18 I never try to bring it up to it's original speed/action. I try only to add water to maintain the slower action. One clue to having too much water in these units ... condensation on the washer/nut that holds the bowl on the threaded shaft.
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 10, 2017 9:14:20 GMT -5
In most cases there are no sharp rocks in a vibe. Virgin ceramic media with sharp edges is best not run in a vibe. Thank you James. I recycle most of my ceramics - after giving them a good cleaning. They are pretty well rounded. I will try to get into the practice of starting them out in the rotary units first, as I take fresh rough through the 80 grit stages. Glenn
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 10, 2017 9:21:25 GMT -5
I get the shavings in my UV18 bowls. Less and less as I use them. Never seems to hurt anything. I do not believe they affect the final polish at all. They do seem to get impacted into any cracks or even embedded in softer porous spots however. In my experience the thinner and wetter the slurry the more the shavings will appear. In my last run (dedicated polish bowl) I saw little to any of the stuff until I got a little more water in than I wanted. There was enough plastic to turn the white polish to a light grey. Rocks came out with a mirror shine. I think a thicker slurry is a benefit. When the action slows in my UV18 I never try to bring it up to it's original speed/action. I try only to add water to maintain the slower action. One clue to having too much water in these units ... condensation on the washer/nut that holds the bowl on the threaded shaft. Good advice Ken. I have (once again) been adding too much water to the load! There is usually a small puddle of condensation atop the inner washer, and the lid drips all over the table when I remove it. I'll cut back a little and see what happens. Thank you! Glenn
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Oct 10, 2017 10:45:37 GMT -5
In most cases there are no sharp rocks in a vibe. Virgin ceramic media with sharp edges is best not run in a vibe. Thank you James. I recycle most of my ceramics - after giving them a good cleaning. They are pretty well rounded. I will try to get into the practice of starting them out in the rotary units first, as I take fresh rough through the 80 grit stages. Glenn Most of our ceramic tumbling media is hard. Much is 95%+ pure aluminum oxide(quality stuff). silicon carbide will shape it. Sic harder that aluminum oxide. And I believe it will cut/shape itself.
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 10, 2017 16:24:54 GMT -5
I'm not so sure that is normal, but we have discussed this here in the past. I have 3 UV-10 bowls, 1 which had the black slough off and 2 which did not. I believe there are numbers on the bottom of all these bowls - a small number in a circle. My bowl with a #4 on the bottom was the one that lost material, and the bowls with #3s (I think, it has been awhile) never did that. May have the #s mixed up. Maybe it was a "bad" production run of bowls? dunno ... My UV-10 polish bowl is a #3, and mu UV-18 polish bowl is a #1. Both produce the black shavings. I shifted the load into the final burnishing stage today. All of the porous Picture Jasper stones came out with NO shine, and were heavily encrusted in black shavings after a wash-down with a garden hose. I took a picture, which I will share later after the load has gone through it's burnishing run... as a comparison. All of the other Jaspers look real nice and shiny (even before the burnishing!)
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melf77
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2017
Posts: 70
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Post by melf77 on Oct 10, 2017 18:43:18 GMT -5
I also have noticed the black specks during clean outs on all 3 of my bowls, medium, fine, polish. I only follow over ceramics that have had a run in my rotary. Only finished a few loads so far, but I think everything polished up fine. My picture jaspers was a bit more matte than my other jaspers.
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 10, 2017 20:29:44 GMT -5
I also have noticed the black specks during clean outs on all 3 of my bowls, medium, fine, polish. I only follow over ceramics that have had a run in my rotary. Only finished a few loads so far, but I think everything polished up fine. My picture jaspers was a bit more matte than my other jaspers. These are pictures of my Picture Jaspers after 2 (of 3) days in the Tin Oxide polish stage. They completed the 3-day Silicon Carbide 1200 grit stage nice and clean - light brown with darker bands associated with the pictures hidden within. I then shifted the stones to the UV-18 "polish only" bowl The load contained Picture Jasper, Polychrome/Desert Jasper, some Serape Jasper, Blue Dendrite Jasper, and Picasso Jasper. All of the jaspers, except the Picture Jasper, had a nice smooth glassy feel when they shifted to the polish stage. The Picture Jaspers felt grainy - porous. I do a hands-on cleaning of each stone when I shift them through the stages (a touchy-feely kind of a guy). I have begun to associate the rough grainy feel with a porous stone, and have found those to be the ones that reject a good polish. I have not yet learned the trick to recovering these failed stones... But, I am still learning. This is the first time that the black shavings have adhered to the stones so abundantly in the polish stage - and are not easily cleaned off (with the garden hose) prior to going to the burnishing stage. The load is presently in the burnishing stage. Tomorrow (?) I will make final remarks and post comparison pictures.
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 11, 2017 20:07:37 GMT -5
Here are the Picture Jaspers BEFORE the burnish stage (after 3-days polish with Tin Oxide) contrasted with some of the other jaspers in the same load: Here they are after 24-hours in burnishing... Burnishing RULES!!! But... NO polish on the Picture Jaspers (sad ) Soooo... How to recover??? Shift these to a Lortone 3A and repeate the Tin Oxide polish... or try another polish? Rub them in Birchwood Casey True oil till they smell of gun stocks and move on to other tumbles?
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melf77
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2017
Posts: 70
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Post by melf77 on Oct 14, 2017 15:44:09 GMT -5
Here are the Picture Jaspers BEFORE the burnish stage (after 3-days polish with Tin Oxide) contrasted with some of the other jaspers in the same load: Here they are after 24-hours in burnishing... Burnishing RULES!!! But... NO polish on the Picture Jaspers (sad ) Soooo... How to recover??? Shift these to a Lortone 3A and repeate the Tin Oxide polish... or try another polish? Rub them in Birchwood Casey True oil till they smell of gun stocks and move on to other tumbles? Do you know what region/ mine the picture jaspers is from? I have 1 piece as matte as yours that I got in a mix a while back, but the 2lbs of picture jaspers I got from rocktumbler, took a very good shine. I need to take photos of those and post. Your picture with black shavings, mind are not anywhere near that. I wonder why your bowl is doing this?
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Post by grumpybill on Oct 14, 2017 16:17:24 GMT -5
I recently saw an aquarium stone at a pet store that was labeled as "Picture Jasper". It was actually a very fine-grained sandstone. Makes me wary of ever buying Picture Jasper sight unseen.
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 14, 2017 18:09:47 GMT -5
Do you know what region/ mine the picture jaspers is from? I have 1 piece as matte as yours that I got in a mix a while back, but the 2lbs of picture jaspers I got from rocktumbler, took a very good shine. I need to take photos of those and post. Your picture with black shavings, mind are not anywhere near that. I wonder why your bowl is doing this? I do not know where these were mined... sorry. When I started the hobby back in January 2017 I bought many pounds of rocks from Amazon... I actually lost track of which mining company supplied them. Many times I bought the same rocks twice because they were being sold under different names! I wasted a lot of $ on poor choices. I think these Picture Jaspers might have been one of those purchases. (Sometimes I learn the hard way! ... but I hope I still learn!) I have since started buying from more reliable sources - Like The Rock Shed. I only started this load out with 1-2 pounds of Picture Jaspers... Which leads me to believe these came from Amazon, because I usually buy in 5 pound batches from The Rock Shed. All my UltraVibe bowls throw off black shavings (2 UV-10, and 2 UV-18). It is more noticeable in the "Polish Only" bowls because of the contrasting colors, but even in the regular grit bowls I notice shavings on the ceramics in the wash water.
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 14, 2017 18:18:08 GMT -5
I recently saw an aquarium stone at a pet store that was labeled as "Picture Jasper". It was actually a very fine-grained sandstone. Makes me wary of ever buying Picture Jasper sight unseen. They DO feel like sandstone... but pretty sandstone! Maybe I should not rub them in Birchwood Casey True Oil after all... Don't want to kill the aquarium fish! LOL! I have had aquariums before and do not think these would make such good tank gravel. Unless you are extremely diligent in keeping the water and gravel clean, they will soon start growing strange looking algae and look VERY bad. The snails and other bottom feeders would like them a lot!
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Post by MrP on Oct 14, 2017 18:47:47 GMT -5
Do you know what region/ mine the picture jaspers is from? I have 1 piece as matte as yours that I got in a mix a while back, but the 2lbs of picture jaspers I got from rocktumbler, took a very good shine. I need to take photos of those and post. Your picture with black shavings, mind are not anywhere near that. I wonder why your bowl is doing this? I do not know where these were mined... sorry. When I started the hobby back in January 2017 I bought many pounds of rocks from Amazon... I actually lost track of which mining company supplied them. Many times I bought the same rocks twice because they were being sold under different names! I wasted a lot of $ on poor choices. I think these Picture Jaspers might have been one of those purchases. (Sometimes I learn the hard way! ... but I hope I still learn!) I have since started buying from more reliable sources - Like The Rock Shed. I only started this load out with 1-2 pounds of Picture Jaspers... Which leads me to believe these came from Amazon, because I usually buy in 5 pound batches from The Rock Shed. All my UltraVibe bowls throw off black shavings (2 UV-10, and 2 UV-18). It is more noticeable in the "Polish Only" bowls because of the contrasting colors, but even in the regular grit bowls I notice shavings on the ceramics in the wash water. I have had that with a couple of my bowls but not anymore. I coat my bowls with thin superglue. In one of my first loads in the UV-18 I put to large of a rock in and it got caught and wore a thin spot in the bowl. Made me sick! I wasn't sure what to do but knew I had to do something so I tried to glue a piece of plastic into the spot. The plastic did not hold but the superglue looked good so I built up layers over time. Used the bowl for 3 years 24/7 for 220 sic grind. Over time I saw the whole bowl was wearing thin so decided to put superglue in the whole bowl. Do it outside because that much superglue gives off a lot of fumes. The bowl is still used for polish. I have coated all of my bowls...................................MrP
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Post by gmitch067 on Oct 14, 2017 21:34:51 GMT -5
I have had that with a couple of my bowls but not anymore. I coat my bowls with thin superglue. In one of my first loads in the UV-18 I put to large of a rock in and it got caught and wore a thin spot in the bowl. Made me sick! I wasn't sure what to do but knew I had to do something so I tried to glue a piece of plastic into the spot. The plastic did not hold but the superglue looked good so I built up layers over time. Used the bowl for 3 years 24/7 for 220 sic grind. Over time I saw the whole bowl was wearing thin so decided to put superglue in the whole bowl. Do it outside because that much superglue gives off a lot of fumes. The bowl is still used for polish. I have coated all of my bowls...................................MrP Good advice MrP! Any particular super glue... or does it matter? Use a paint brush to apply it?
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melf77
having dreams about rocks
Member since July 2017
Posts: 70
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Post by melf77 on Oct 15, 2017 6:34:49 GMT -5
I do not know where these were mined... sorry. When I started the hobby back in January 2017 I bought many pounds of rocks from Amazon... I actually lost track of which mining company supplied them. Many times I bought the same rocks twice because they were being sold under different names! I wasted a lot of $ on poor choices. I think these Picture Jaspers might have been one of those purchases. (Sometimes I learn the hard way! ... but I hope I still learn!) I have since started buying from more reliable sources - Like The Rock Shed. I only started this load out with 1-2 pounds of Picture Jaspers... Which leads me to believe these came from Amazon, because I usually buy in 5 pound batches from The Rock Shed. All my UltraVibe bowls throw off black shavings (2 UV-10, and 2 UV-18). It is more noticeable in the "Polish Only" bowls because of the contrasting colors, but even in the regular grit bowls I notice shavings on the ceramics in the wash water. I have had that with a couple of my bowls but not anymore. I coat my bowls with thin superglue. In one of my first loads in the UV-18 I put to large of a rock in and it got caught and wore a thin spot in the bowl. Made me sick! I wasn't sure what to do but knew I had to do something so I tried to glue a piece of plastic into the spot. The plastic did not hold but the superglue looked good so I built up layers over time. Used the bowl for 3 years 24/7 for 220 sic grind. Over time I saw the whole bowl was wearing thin so decided to put superglue in the whole bowl. Do it outside because that much superglue gives off a lot of fumes. The bowl is still used for polish. I have coated all of my bowls...................................MrP Great idea.
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