UPDATE 3-20-21 Input, opinions, tips for cabbing

[NevadaBill]

May 2, 2019 17:35:50 GMT -5 julieooly said:

Definitely safety goggles. If you wear reading glasses you can get goggles with magnification, I got mine on Amazon. I've also considered terrycloth bibs but ended up using regular hand towels clipped on with binder clips, I hate things around my neck. I wear over-the-ear protection when I'm spending longer amounts of time grinding, and I wear a surgical mask when I use my rock saw. It runs on oil and a fine mist seems to get on me so without the mask I'm probably breathing it in. I wear a purple disposable glove on my right hand because all the twirling of the dopsticks irritates my fingers (also when I spend longer amounts of time cabbing). Also I love working on the flat vertical lap and the glove gives me better grip and saves my skin from the disc.

A dry towel is a must and sometimes I dry my cabs under a warm lamp to get them totally dry. I was missing a lot of scratches before I started doing this.

A lot of what I'm learning to do when working on the dome is to use my thumb to feel the shape of the cab/dome. Sometimes when I just can't tell if something is right, I dry the stone completely and put a drop of hand lotion on the stone. Then I close my eyes and feel the dome with my thumb, going in circles and back and forth. This typically tells me things my eyes don't see especially when working with materials that have color variations.

Everything I've read seems to recommend using the entire wheel. I have a tendency to work on the left of my wheels but I plan to flip them around when there is visible wear. There's also a magic amount of pressure to use when working on the flexible wheels.

Are you using a newer Cab King? I got one at the end of last year and had been using the plastic wrist-rests that came with the machine. It took me A LONG time to realize they were hindering me from making critical motion and when I took them out it was way way easier!! (I use dopsticks, maybe this feature works better for those who work without dops?) I put a piece of pipe insulation on the front lip of the tray and use this to rest my wrists.

I think there are also differences depending on the size of your hands, and definitely on how nimble your fingers may (or may not) be.

Don't forget there are LOTS of people who don't dop and many who say you should learn to do it both ways!

QUESTION: Can I flip my Nova wheels over on a CK6? I need to know before I settle into a bad habit. Any thoughts from the crowd?

Thank you.  I appreciate all of the advice.  

Especially this block of information.  I wish there was a way to move this post right up near the top of this whole Topic thread.  I appreciate you documenting all of this, Julie.

- Mandatory: Eye protection.  Optional:  Light weight Gloves, Ear protection.  Got it
- Use the whole wheel, back and forth, keeping one Right of Left side fresher for girdle or certain work
- Terry cloths, dry towels, and maybe a heat lamp (old hair dryer) for quick drying and close inspection of stone
- Lighting Lamp, Illuminated Magnification tools, glasses (Optivisor or equivalent) for close ups
- Flipping grinding wheels for longer life, using More / Less water for better grinding action

And perhaps some arm / wrist rests for more comfortable long sessions, but ability to work around them too

[NevadaBill]

It is hard to describe or picture this, but I find that Side - to - Side, or Left to Right rotating motions of the rock against the wheel are safer, and less abrasive.

On the contrary, rotating a rock UP, actually places the forces against the wheel, which is moving always in a strong DOWNward fashion. The most abrasion occurs, and careful pressure of the rock against the wheel has to be maintained.

I find that rather than 'jabbing' the stone in to the wheel to take off material, that it is more harmonious for the rock, if I use more of a longer 'painting' stroke to sort of swipe material off of the rock.

I probably need to watch videos that I can find.

[julieooly]

Always "below the horizon", or 3:00, or the midpoint on the wheels.

Another mistake I made when starting out (except for forgetting about this forum that is). I spent an enormous amount of time looking at images of cabs "for sale" rather than "sold", and remember just because they're sold doesn't mean they were made right. Also, looking isn't the same as feeling. After I bought some cabs from reputable artists a whole new world opened up for me, there's only so much even great pictures can tell you. I'm still spending too much time looking at "sold" cabs now. You need to consider your cabs final destination is most likely a piece of jewelry. Take as much time looking at quality cabs as you do the pieces they are incorporated into.

What seems to help me most is the diagrams, I wish I had the ability to make them! I've been wanting to make up some drawings for someone critique and to makeCADs of, maybe later in the month.


Like Tela says, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'll chime in that not everybody likes cats, some of ya'll are dog and horse people. Find your style and technique that your hands want to do, mindful you aren't being too harsh on the equipment.

Oh, and another thing! I started with all brand new equipment some of which had a breaking in period. It's kinda impossible to know when you're new when it's broken in and when it's worn out. I replaced my standard CK 3rd and 4th wheels with Nova, Nova are amazing. I had been too rough on my first wheels (I think) and after removing the wrist guard and breaking in the new Nova's made an incredible amount of difference. I should send my used wheels to someone for a 2nd opinion.

I've been out of town the last couple weeks with lots of time on my hands to research materials and participate in this forum. It's been great and I can't wait to get back to the workshop. Another next big thing for you may be photography which is a beast for many.

[NevadaBill]

I've been busy this last weekend and more helping out the seniors at our local rock club with a grand rock and gem show that they just put on. They filled an entire gymnasium (and more) with fantasic boothes, in conjunction with a local art fair. I wish I'd taken pictures.

I will be out of town on another adventure for the next few weeks, and won't be able to do any lapidary or contribute much here. But the supplies I ordered are starting to show up now.

I am just catching up and reading the last page of advice now. There is so much good advice in this thread that I've been putting together a collection of key notes and tidbits of information taken from all of your input. There is no way that I would be able to remember all of this. Many small bits of information are often overlooked, and only appear to you after experience teaches it. That usually means "learn the hard way".

I know that I can't be the only one interested in the content here, or seeing this forum topic continue to grow.

Anyone that stumbles upon this will find a wealth of information.

[rockjunquie]

I just uploaded some files to make templates. Find them here  forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87592/free-downloadable-templates

[julieooly]

Another thing that has really made a difference is using shorter dop-sticks, along with removing the wrist-rest this has been one of the biggest game changers for me.

[NevadaBill]

I have made some choices for Dop Sticks and wax as well.

Time will tell if this aluminum / stainless steel modular tool will pan out or not, compared to wooden dowels.



The product has a major failure in that the large size of the handle was not bored with the proper thread pitch, and did not match the bolts which were sent with it. So, I can't endorse the tool just yet. So, I had to use a tap and die tool to re-tap the thread, and then find proper bolts for it. PITA.



Also, I will be selling my Dop Buddy and Wax kit, and using the Super Glue method for this tool as well. I experimented with wax, and even after isopropyl alcohol swab prep the dop wax was having trouble sticking to the stainless steel.

I realize this post probably doesn't belong under the "Cabbing Basics" topic, but thought I'd share anyhow, since I am new.

[rockjunquie]

I was thinking yesterday while I was cabbing that I used to be so wed to the idea of saving the most material that I would persist with a crappy shape because I didn't want to lose anymore precious stone. That left me with a lot of really ugly cabs that could have been so much better had I just made a few more passes on the 80 grit. So, yeah, don't be afraid to make a few more cuts to get that top notch cab.

[rockjunquie]

Jun 12, 2019 12:44:30 GMT -5 NevadaBill said:

I have made some choices for Dop Sticks and wax as well.

Time will tell if this aluminum / stainless steel modular tool will pan out or not, compared to wooden dowels.



The product has a major failure in that the large size of the handle was not bored with the proper thread pitch, and did not match the bolts which were sent with it. So, I can't endorse the tool just yet. So, I had to use a tap and die tool to re-tap the thread, and then find proper bolts for it. PITA.



Also, I will be selling my Dop Buddy and Wax kit, and using the Super Glue method for this tool as well. I experimented with wax, and even after isopropyl alcohol swab prep the dop wax was having trouble sticking to the stainless steel.

I realize this post probably doesn't belong under the "Cabbing Basics" topic, but thought I'd share anyhow, since I am new.

One of our members makes custom metal dops for glue that are really awesome. I use them when it's too cold in the house for wax. Send minerken a PM and ask about his dops. You'll be glad you did.

Wax really can be tricky, but I do like it. I prefer it to super glue. It's faster to get the cab off the dop, too. With super glue, I never liked using the flame method, which is quick and I am too impatient to soak in acetone or put in the freezer. But, I will use it when I have to.

[rockjunquie]

For those of you using diamond wheels, which is the only thing that I can speak to, learn how to dress your wheels. Kingsley North has several dressing sticks. YES, you can dress a Nova. I dress mine as often as needed. When you do a lot of hard stones, agates, etc., it can cause the wheel to glaze over with tiny particles of harder rock filling in the gaps between the diamonds. The dressing stick will remove some of the diamond, rock and resin, exposing a new surface. The trick is to use it sparingly, use the right one and use a light touch. Personally, I have been using a 220 grit for all my wheels. I think that is technically a no-no, but I do it and haven't had any problems. It's better to have a fast cutting wheel than a wheel that it isn't cutting at all, so I don't worry about the small amount of wear to my wheels. I have been using my last 2 wheels for years! I dress them occasionally to keep them sharp.

You can also cut some obsidian to help clear your wheels. I have not had a lot of success with that, but a lot of people swear by it.

[stardiamond]

I've made my share of what I call clunky cabs. The shape isn't pleasing. I start with the scene and the scene dictates the shape and size. I've got better at that.

Back in my wife's cab collecting days she bought these Morrisonites. She didn't like the shapes but liked the material and thought they could be recut later. I have no intention of recutting them now but I question the design choices when they were made. The largest is 60mm. I hope I'm not offending anyone here if they made these.

[stardiamond]

I think this cab is a good example of what Tela said about trying to use too much of the material. I was trying to incorporate the dark spots (bad poppies) and it doesn't work. A big chunk fell how of the top right and there are a bunch of vugs bottom left. The good news is the bottom is very solid and the cab is 5mm. I've got to be able to do better with this.

[NevadaBill]

rockjunquie ~ As for starting out with end pieces or poor stones to make cabs, that is exactly what is happening right now with me. I am afraid to ruin some of my nicer slabs, because I am so inexperienced. But I am getting better at cabbing with practice.

But I did exactly this with tumbling. I started with poor rocks, and got poor results.

You have a good point. I should just jump right in with the best material I have. Even if I don't do so great, I will have a pretty stone to look at, even if it is all lumpy. In retrospect, I feel like the same advice can be applied to tumbling. Only tumble your best material.

Also, I am having trouble getting the stones off the dops, using Loctite Super Glue. Even with freezer. Need to research. I have 100% Acetone. I may have to soak them.

I did not know that you could use a dressing stick on a diamond wheel! I have been using Paver bricks for dressing my diamond blade trim saw. I would like to dress my diamond wheels today. Do you think a solid Paver brick would be OK for a diamond wheel too?? I need to research this maybe.

I think that my 80 grit wheel is dulling on 3/4 of it, where I use it more often. So, maybe a 220 grit dressing stick might do the trick. Or a Paver maybe? Wonder what grit they would resemble.

I saw a video recently where someone was using old 220 grit Nova wheels to dress their diamond saw blades.

[NevadaBill]

stardiamond ~ I really like how you mention that you visualize a "scene", using the characteristics (patterns, lines, colors, etc) to dictate which template you start with, and ultimately the freeform that you end up with.

I think that this could be one of the most important points for me to take away from this thread!

I have to use some imagination when beginning a cab, to try and envision a more artistic creation, before I ever start shaping or grinding. But I think this might be an skill acquired by extensive experience.

What I am finding so far though, is that many slabs (especially with Agate) do not always reveal all of their secrets on the surface! Some times when shaping the dome of a cab, I find new swirls, shapes, and personality being revealed by the stone, which I could not have seen so easily when looking at the original blank slab.

[edit] It should also be mentioned that I think you are using some of the most beautiful material that I've seen!  Thanks for sharing!

[stardiamond]

Good fortune is one part of getting a great cab. As you mentioned the attributes change when grinding down. I like to study the back and sides to get an idea what is going to happen. I cut a lot of domeless cabs because I see the scene is very shallow and will change into something else of disappear.

Here's an example of luck. This cab had a big ugly vug in the middle and I did a horrible job on the dome. It had a high dome so there was room to recut. The vug went away the dome was fixed and the scene changed for the better. The attributes are relatively centered and they didn't even exist when I started the fix.

[rockjunquie]

Jun 16, 2019 10:23:10 GMT -5 NevadaBill said:

rockjunquie ~ As for starting out with end pieces or poor stones to make cabs, that is exactly what is happening right now with me. I am afraid to ruin some of my nicer slabs, because I am so inexperienced. But I am getting better at cabbing with practice.

But I did exactly this with tumbling. I started with poor rocks, and got poor results.

You have a good point. I should just jump right in with the best material I have. Even if I don't do so great, I will have a pretty stone to look at, even if it is all lumpy. In retrospect, I feel like the same advice can be applied to tumbling. Only tumble your best material.

Also, I am having trouble getting the stones off the dops, using Loctite Super Glue. Even with freezer. Need to research. I have 100% Acetone. I may have to soak them.

I did not know that you could use a dressing stick on a diamond wheel! I have been using Paver bricks for dressing my diamond blade trim saw. I would like to dress my diamond wheels today. Do you think a solid Paver brick would be OK for a diamond wheel too?? I need to research this maybe.

I think that my 80 grit wheel is dulling on 3/4 of it, where I use it more often. So, maybe a 220 grit dressing stick might do the trick. Or a Paver maybe? Wonder what grit they would resemble.

I saw a video recently where someone was using old 220 grit Nova wheels to dress their diamond saw blades.

While I don't disagree with what you have surmised, I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about using ANY stone, AAA to C. Anytime you are grinding or marking out shapes, don't be afraid to deviate to get a better cab. Sometimes, when I am cutting a stone, I see that an extra grind here or there will improve the cab whether it is removing more material or not. I used to want to preserve every little bit of material. It took me awhile to be daring enough to sacrifice a little for a better cab.

[NevadaBill]

Jun 16, 2019 11:18:23 GMT -5 stardiamond said:

Good fortune is one part of getting a great cab. As you mentioned the attributes change when grinding down. I like to study the back and sides to get an idea what is going to happen. I cut a lot of domeless cabs because I see the scene is very shallow and will change into something else of disappear.

Here's an example of luck. This cab had a big ugly vug in the middle and I did a horrible job on the dome. It had a high dome so there was room to recut. The vug went away the dome was fixed and the scene changed for the better. The attributes are relatively centered and they didn't even exist when I started the fix.

Thank you for the idea of creating a cab with less dome on it.  I am going to try to create some like that.

I think that is a great looking stone there.  I don't know what it could have looked like originally, but it turned out really nice!

Right now 90% of my cabs are freeform.  I am just winging it.  It is easier, because I am not bound to a template or technique yet.  I am trying to get a feel for how fast each of the wheels takes material off of the stone.  For me, now, this is just as important as technique.  It is kind of like learning to drive a car.

I appreciate all of your advice.  Especially when trying to read a slab, trying to envision a scene, and then cutting the shape around that idea.  Very smart, that.

[NevadaBill]

Thank you Tela. I misunderstand a lot of wording right now. I will look up the definition for "AAA to C". I am sure that I will come back to some of your comments in 6 month and they will make more of a positive impact for me. Right now, I am new, and most of what I read by the experts just sounds a lot like foreign language to me.

[rockjunquie]

Jun 19, 2019 11:27:17 GMT -5 NevadaBill said:

Thank you Tela. I misunderstand a lot of wording right now. I will look up the definition for "AAA to C". I am sure that I will come back to some of your comments in 6 month and they will make more of a positive impact for me. Right now, I am new, and most of what I read by the experts just sounds a lot like foreign language to me.

AAA to C simply means a stellar cab compared to a mediocre cab.

[stardiamond]

Since I am self taught my technique needed to improve. I had examples of well cut cabs, but didn't know how to get there. I would mark the girdle line and grind down from the face to the edge and work my way closer as the grit got finer. I was always afraid of cutting into the girdle line. I would then rock the cab until I got the dome even. The more adjustments I made the lower the dome.
Most of my low dome cabs are because the slab was thinner usually not from over grinding.

I recently have changed my technique to what is shown for circles and ovals. Start above the girdle line and rotate the stone in one continuous movement and repeat until the girdle line is reached. I don't know anything about percentages or angles for the cut.
No matter the shape, this technique works and you will see an unground space in the center of the cab. At that point I can rock and visually check for the dome being right. I hate cutting circles and ovals because I don't like the shape but it is a good way to develop technique. You will find that different material cuts at a different speed and needs to be treated differently. I've cut a lot of practice cabs where the scene isn't too interesting to see how the material works. It's better to screw up a less interesting cab.