llanago
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,714
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Post by llanago on Jul 30, 2004 0:55:12 GMT -5
July 17 I started a 3 lb. barrel of the red and yellow jasper I got from Banjo with 3 tbls of 60/90, put in some pellets and added water to the bottom of the top layer of rocks. On the 25th I checked them and there was a ton of good grit in the bottom of the barrel, no slurry, just water, grit and rocks. I poured off some of the water and put it back on the tumbler. Tonight I had to take two barrels off the tumbler because it is making all sorts of weird, squeaking sounds. One of the barrels I took off was the jasper barrel - it still had a ton of good grit on the bottom of the barrel, as did the other barrel I had to take off. Why after a week of tumbling do I have good grit sitting on the bottom of the barrel? This has happened more than once, so I have started cutting back on the grit - using 3 tablespoons instead of 4 as the Lortone book says, even used only 2 tbls in the other barrel.
I fill the barrels to about 3/4 full, add pellets and water to the bottom of the top layer of rocks and the grit. I make sure I have rocks of all sizes. I cannot figure out why after a week I have so much grit sittin' on the bottom of the barrel and no slurry! This has happened a number of times in both my 6 lbs. barrels and my 3 lb barrels, although it seems to happen more in the 3 pounders.
I am doing the same thing I have always done and can't figure out what the heck is wrong here!
Also, anybody got any idea why my new/old tumbler is making such a horrendous noise. It has a new motor, was cleaned and degreased thoroughly then lubricated. I have been running it for a couple of weeks with no problem. Then all of a sudden it starts making all this noise. I have checked to make sure the fan is not hitting anything, added a touch of oil and inspected it for anything that might be causing the noise. No luck. Anybody got any idea of what the problem might be.
Oh, BTW, I dropped the barrel of jasper, the lid flew off and rocks, pellets and grit hit the floor, What a mess! So, it wasn't just a simple get the rocks out of the barrel and put away until time to put them on again. It was shampoo the carpet at 11 PM! Got most of it up but there is still a big area I will have to work on tomorrow. Then got in the shower and discovered I have a bit of a plumbing problem there! Also, lost $40.00 somewhere - discovered that when I stopped at the store on the way home from BE's.
At 3 this afternoon, all was well. Went to BE's so we could set up a fenced in area for the dogs for Saturday, left there and from then on everything I touched turned to ****! GRRRRRRR! I am thinking of loading Max in the truck and running away!
llana
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Post by docone31 on Jul 30, 2004 1:09:40 GMT -5
It sounds like the fecal fairy has indeed paid you a visit. With the squeaking, where is it coming from. It almost sounds like dry bushings on the rollers. The motor turns too high an rpm to make a squeak, I bet it is dry rollers, or the frame is slightly off plane. With the jasper. I suggest lighten the stone load. I do not know what shapes you are using, however, It sounds like the grit is migrating to the bottom and not circulating. Perhaps save the pellets for the pre and polish stage, let the coarse and med have at it. I have had this happen, and when it does, I have taken to shaking the bbl., every time I went into the room where the tumbler was tumbling. I did find that when this happens, I have had to run two cycles to get a polish. I thought it was a lock up with the stone shapes. I still do not know what it was. The shaking of the bbl., seemed to get enough grit moving around that the stones got more rounded. This seemed to help the grinding action. How did you lose 40$ down the sink? That sounds like something my wife would have done and blamed it on me.
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RiverOtter
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2004
Posts: 339
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Post by RiverOtter on Jul 30, 2004 1:17:38 GMT -5
Yeah what doc said. I sometimes will shake my barrels too. Turn em upside down and shake away. It does seem to help.
Otter
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Post by sandsman1 on Jul 30, 2004 1:18:14 GMT -5
llana maybe the tumbler is turning to slow with the noise what ever it is and it cant churn up a slurry,, can you hear where the noise is comming from the motors or the bars maybe you got a bad bar bering
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Post by docone31 on Jul 30, 2004 1:40:46 GMT -5
LLana One thing I definately do not reccomend and you will find it out there on the internet. Do not Use Cornmeal in tumbling. YOu think the rug is a mess with grit!!!!! We put some in our 33B and four days later, Boom! the Bengals were all excited and running around, and the smell was amazing. I burped the bbl., every 12hrs and on the fourth day it had risen! It was rotten and on the wall, ceiling, floor, in the grout, on the 'puter. We had to texure the room and repaint. That was nasty. Tumbling yes, cornmeal NO!
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Post by puppie96 on Jul 30, 2004 2:55:09 GMT -5
I've had this problem. Sometimes I throw in some very fine gravel, I think it gives the grit something to grab on to and helps it thicken, then I've got a little rinsing container that I use when I'm checking the rocks, and this gradually accumulates sludge -- I add sludge to the problem barrels. Then get patient and leave it a few days.
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deepsouth
fully equipped rock polisher
He who rocks last rocks best
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,256
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Post by deepsouth on Jul 30, 2004 4:34:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry to learn that you had such a tough day Llana, you most certainly do have my sympathy.
as for the barrel fill, I have learned that it tumbles better when they are only 60% full and not 75%. I used to do them upto 75% and had a mediocre result with still coarse grit left over after a week. Now with 60% full of rock , I get a very nice paste. But hey I haven't tumbled hard jasper yet. I have a book by NZ tumbling enthousiasts in which they showed the trials and errors of tumbling and their conclusion was very strongly for the 60% fill level of rock. We all want to tumble as much rock as we can , but I feel that the Lortone book allows too much rock !!
as for the squeek...all I can think of is that your bearing is damaged and runs dry , may have gotten some grit into it. dry bearings can make a hell of a racket and so can damaged bearings.
Good luck with the tumblers.
Jack
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llanago
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,714
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Post by llanago on Jul 30, 2004 9:15:23 GMT -5
Gee, what a crappy day, you have my condolences.
You can sure say that again! LOL! Although the whole day wasn't crappy, only about a third of it, but that was enough! Things are looking better after a night's sleep. The mess on the carpet cleaned up much better than it appeared last night So, that started off my day on a more cheerful note.
Thanks for all the replys and advice. I have been wondering if I was putting too many rocks in, so I will cut down on the rocks when I reload. I usually don't use pellets in the coarse stage. Don't know why I did it this time. One of those brain farts Otter mentioned on another thread, I guess. I also shake my barrels at least once a day, esp since I have been having this grit problem.
Doc, I definitely will not add cornmeal, sugar, etc. Read all the horror stories of these little experiements here on the forum before I even got my first tumbler. So glad I did. I hate to think about what a mess the carpet would have been with any additional additive to it. YUCK!
Guess I am going to have to get me one of those special little tools to remove the C clips on the tumbler and do some serious tumbler surgery. The noise seems to be coming from the area of the fan and the wheel ditty the belt goes around. How do I lubricate the bushings? I thought I had been doing that, but apparently not.
And, I found the $40 - well, didn't find it but remembered where I spent it. At the gas pump! I didn't spend the whole $40 there. I had $4 left after the gas and got me two hershey bars to help me feel better after having to spend $36 on gas! Thank goodness a tank of gas usually lasts me almost two weeks. I have a F250 with a V10 for pulling the RV and that V10 never misses a chance to pull into a gas station. Fortunately, I don't drive alot!
llana
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Post by hermatite on Jul 30, 2004 9:28:57 GMT -5
Hey llana...try the gravel or, what I've found that also works well is chucking in some glass beads or bits of broken bottle...it'll break down and keep stuff moving and you don't have to worry about getting cut since the grit will smooth out the glass bits. I've had the sludge problem with one load and did EXACTLY the same thing as with other loads. I thought the gritsgods just weren't smiling on me. The glass seemed to help. And when my machine starts making terrible noises it usually means an 0 ring is starting to let go.
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shorty
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2003
Posts: 392
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Post by shorty on Jul 30, 2004 10:32:44 GMT -5
ha lana oil the rollers and grab a beer cold then take a calgon bath drink some more beer then let calgon take you away hahaha hope you have a better day today..shorty
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RiverOtter
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2004
Posts: 339
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Post by RiverOtter on Jul 30, 2004 11:32:00 GMT -5
Llana, ever consider trading that V10 for a diesel? Two years ago my hubby bought a new truck. A Chevy 2500 Heavy Duty 4x4 in arrival blue with the equivalent of a 455 engine. (Needed something big enough to pull the stock trailer.) My god was that thing a gas guzzler, got about 12 miles to the gallon. I feel in love with the truck though (was planning on stealing it from him and leaving him with my 97 Jimmy ;D ). Never had the chance though. Someone t-boned him in the parking lot at work and totaled the truck. Anyway, when he replaced it he got one with one of the Duramax diesels in it. I was hesitant about it but let me tell you what, that thing gets better gas mileage than my 6-cylinder Jimmy. And power....it has power to boot. And it has the quiet technology in the diesel so it's not nearly as loud as the diesels they put in the Ford's and Chryslers. And to boot it seems diesels is cheaper than unleaded most of the time. Something to think about if you have the means.
Otter
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RedwoodRocks
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since March 2003
Posts: 762
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Post by RedwoodRocks on Jul 30, 2004 11:59:30 GMT -5
I have the squeeky tumbler also. I left my tumbler on while on a recent trip. I forgot to ask my wife to keep an eye on the machine. Well, sometime while I was gone, it stopped tumbling.
The motor seems ok, I took off the belt and can spin by hand. However, the machine will stop tumbling after several hours to up to 12 hours. Not sure if I burned up part of the motor or something. And, it is now really squeeky. I have tried adjusting the tension but that doesn't seem to help.
I think I need a new belt, maybe it got streched out or something.
Cal
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Post by docone31 on Jul 30, 2004 12:01:46 GMT -5
Triton V10. Killer engine. Gas guzzler. To pick up fuel economy change camshafts. Engines are me. Swapping out the camshaft for a .204-216 duration camshaft will get about five more mpg. When we came to the left coast the van was dead, the rear end gone, and the transmission blotto. Nice inexpensive trip. We have a Chevy 350. It was originally a 305 and we swapped it out for a 350. It got 22 mpg on the highway. We have rebuilt the engine, .030 over, .204-.210 torque camshaft, swapped out the 3.23 rear end gears for 2.73 locker and changed the valve body in the tranny. We also put on an Edlebrock torquer manifold, with a 600fm EGR carb. Added about 300$ to the total rebuild. Breaking the engine in, we went from 22mpg to 28mpg on the highway. This is a G20 3/4 ton van. No one gets 28mpg in a van, and it is an high top! I also built it for emissions. I have always wanted clean air. I have built many Hot rod engines and I always wanted hp. and no smoke. With emissions testing I can modify my engines and test the modifications Our van is an '86 and we beat Kalifornia 2004 emissions standards. My wife is still terrified of it, when she pulls from a stop light she can get the front wheels off the ground. She hardly uses any fuel going 65 on the interstate. With a fuel injection engine, never use regular gas. The mid grade and up has fuel detergents that keep the injectors as clean as possible which also helps the horsepower/fuel economy. Crane makes a camshaft for the triton which might help.
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Mazanec
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2004
Posts: 355
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Post by Mazanec on Jul 30, 2004 12:04:27 GMT -5
I filled up to 3/4 once and IIRC I had some grit on the bottom. Let me know how it comes out, I plan to start 4 lbs of green aventurine in about a week when I get back from vacation, but that should not fill it up to 3/4.
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shorty
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2003
Posts: 392
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Post by shorty on Jul 30, 2004 12:10:10 GMT -5
hi all my 34ford has a 355 chevy it has is bord over 30 engine and it is polished ported milled heads all indi inside has about 475 horse power and i get 18.5 miles to the gallon. not to bad
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Post by Jeff 2 on Jul 30, 2004 12:35:11 GMT -5
My guess is that you have some rocks in the barrell that are two big, causing very little "rolling" movement with the rocks when the barrell spins. Grit + Friction with rocks = slurry. If you fill up your barrells 3/4 full you should not add pellets in my opinion.
But then again, I am really a novice here compared to many of the seasoned rock vets.
Jeff Sugar Land, TX
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Post by krazydiamond on Jul 30, 2004 15:33:45 GMT -5
i've had the same problem a few times with grit goo in the bottom and no slurry, some good tips in this thread for combating that. i always shake my barrels after i check them. i read that you should never use a metal spoon to poke around when you check the rocks....(oops!)..what do you use to "stir" with?
my tin oxide arrived today, can't wait to try it.
KD
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Post by hermatite on Jul 30, 2004 15:50:05 GMT -5
I just use my fingers usually but, after ramming a shard up under a fingernail recently (I didn't even know I spoke the language that came out of my mouth when that happened), I switched to using a long wooden skewer. We bought them for bbqing but they work good for rock stirring too.
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llanago
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,714
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Post by llanago on Jul 30, 2004 16:13:32 GMT -5
Jeff, I don't think I have any rocks in there that are too big. They are all about the same sizes as I have put in before with no problem, but will definitely take that into consideration when I reload.
KD, I usually give my barrels a good shake after I load them and also try to do it at least once I day. You STIR your barrels? I don't stir mine or poke around in them. If I just want to check the progress, which I rarely ever do, I just stick my fingers in and grab. I usually don't even open my barrels after I have them loaded, until it's time to recharge. Then I dump the rocks into a bucket and if I see that I have grit left, I put everything back in the barrel, clean it up, add water, then put it back on the tumbler.
Guess my barrels are kinda like a martini - shaken, not stirred. LOL!
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llanago
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2004
Posts: 1,714
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Post by llanago on Jul 30, 2004 16:45:42 GMT -5
Shorty, I would dearly love to have a Calgon soak, but I'm thinkin' it really wouldn't be very relaxing since my tub is rather small and my knees would be up around my ears! If I weren't so stinkin' lazy, I could put on my bathing suit and go sit in the hot tub, but it's on the other side of the park and I just can't work up the energy! Hema, if I need fill, for my barrels I have a 50# sack of sapphire gravel I grab a hand full out of, always hoping that maybe that hand full will be the one that reveals a huge sapphire. Hoping in vain so far. Otter, trade my V10 for a diesel?!?!?! NO WAY, Jose! I hate diesels! Hate the noise. Hate the smell. And since the dr thinks my brother in law got a good deal of his heavy metal poison from the diesel fuel he inhaled for years working on that heavy equipment, I don't even want a diesel parked close to me. I know, I know, that's a bit overboard, but I HATE DIESELS! ;D Actually, I get pretty good gas mileage - anywhere from 14 to 18 MPG depending on terrain and traffic. Even discovered that I get better gas mileage when hauling the RV than some diesel folks get. I get about 10 MPG hauling and a number of diesel owners have told me they get only 8 or 9 MPG when hauling. I love my truck, it's in great shape, comfortable, got enough power to do what I need and it's paid for. And that is the best kind of truck to have! LOL! Now, Doc, I am a pretty sharp cookie and can do all sorts of things BUT, I haven't a clue about engines! I do know how to change the oil and oil filter, how to take out and put in a new starter, how to fix a flat, and I know the sounds of my engine and if something sounds a bit different, I go see the mechanic. Other than that, I don't have the slightest idea about cams, torque, rear end gears or much of anything else that makes the truck go - except keepin' that sucker in gas! I did put a K&N air filter in it and that improved my mileage by a couple MPG. I'd be willing to bet that if I had one of those manuals and I had to fix something myself, I could do it, but until I absolutely have to, I ain't gonna do it. Got enough on my hands learning how to fix everything on the RV from Hell I live in! ;D Shorty (again), this couple I work for has two really cool old cars. One is purple, the other orange, both with all sorts of chrome and souped up engines. I can't remember what year they are but they are most definitely cool. He goes to car shows and wins all sorts of trophys and stuff with them. I am hoping one of these days, he will offer me a ride in one of them and put the pedal to the metal! llana
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