Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 7, 2020 19:30:47 GMT -5
I am about as novice as you can get when it comes to rock tumbling. I just tumbled my first batch using a Lortone 3A, with 1 week each in coarse grit, fine grit, pre polish and then final polish. I am a little disappointed with the result. I was primarily trying to get my agate polished up nice and shiny. That is the one in the lower left of the group photo, and also the one singled out in the 2 individual photos (front & back). The rest of the stones were just filler. I also used ceramic filler that I bought from rocktumbler.com. The finish ended up being quite dull. What did I do wrong? I thought that I cleaned out the barrell thouroughly before and after each grit change. Did I include stones of the wrong hardness in the group? It was mostly quartz, but also a couple pieces of basalt and a few others that appeared to be the same hardness as agate, but maybe not. Any advice? Is there still a way I can get that agate polished up nice and shiny? Thank you for any help you can provide. My next batch is going to be all quartz that I have grinded into very nice symmetrical shapes, but I don't want to start another batch without first asking you experts for advice. Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/90078/advice-newbie#ixzz6AOjPI95V
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 7, 2020 21:18:29 GMT -5
I’m no expert and a beginner myself, but here’s my thoughts.
The two black, red and possibly the grey ones look like they could be porous and could be part of the problem. What are the ratings of the grit you’re using? Like 60/90 for coarse, 120/220 for medium, 500 for pre-polish and 15,000 for polish. Without knowing this it’s hard to say. Your polish may not be fine enough. Some people also add a 1000 grit stage to help as well. When you rub the rocks on your pants, do they get a better shine? If so, you may want to add a burnishing stage with ivory soap flakes or borax at the end to see if that helps or possibly even run them in polish longer.
Also what you’re calling an agate looks more like some form of quartz to me, but again I’m no expert and it’s hard to tell from the pics. Either way it should be hard enough to take a shine. I’m sure others with a lot more experience than I will be along shortly to try and help you as well. In any case though, you want to remove those porous rocks from the batch. They will never take a shine no matter what you do.
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Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 7, 2020 21:48:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the helpful feedback, RocksInNJ The grit is 60/90, then 120/20, then 500/600 and the polish is 1200. That "agate" has been confirmed by people who know agates as an unusual type of agate called a "skip an atom" or "skip' for short. It is some kind of unusual quartz structure. Up close it is very pretty, and that's why I'd like to get it more shiny. After I let it set for awhile it actually did develop a bit more shine. And, when I rubbed it against my clothes like you said it improved 100%, so it would appear all is not lost! I think you are right that I had some porous stones in the mix that shouldn't have been there. I'll try and avoid that in the future. Although I had a couple pieces of softer stone (feldspar, lots of micah in it?) in the first course run that polished up beautifully after that first course grit run. I took those out of the mix though, and will experiment with polishing those later I've got my second batch in the tumbler now, all quartz, and I set the agate and one other stone aside for final polishing or burnishing later. But I'm not going to do any final polishing or burnishing on those until I have a better idea what I'm doing. Wish I had a second tumbler. Thanks a lot NJ. Really appreciate the feedback.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 7, 2020 21:55:20 GMT -5
Glad to be of help my friend. I hope that once you have enough stones to run , that a burnishing round will help and make your agate nice and shiny. Keep us updated and let us know how you make out or if you have any other questions. Everyone here is friendly and more than helpful. Best of luck my friend.
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Post by knave on Jan 7, 2020 22:17:37 GMT -5
1st stage takes way longer than 1 week, after that, let the rocks dry, then look closely with a light. Take note of the scratches. Maybe even pull one out to use as a reference. The next stage goes until all those large scratches are gone. The rocks should already be starting to shine before they go into polish. JMO Evan
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Post by pauls on Jan 7, 2020 22:40:04 GMT -5
Whoa. 1200 is not polish, prepolish at best. Your bits of Basalt may not shine, it's quite variable in composition and can be quite soft sometimes. Your "Agates" are are actually nice bits of Quartz, they should polish up well when you get some polish compound. I think you are well on your way, recommended polish here is Al Oxide from the rock shed, Tin Oxide or Cerium Oxide will also do the job.
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Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 7, 2020 23:20:26 GMT -5
So many questions, and appreciate the info very much. Thanks knave. I will do the first run longer than a week, but will the course grit hold out? Should I refresh the course grit after a week or so? And pauls, thanks for the referral to the rock shed. I'm going to order a fresh batch of grits from them, including that aluminum oxide polish. This forum is very helpful. The friendly encouragement a newcomer receives really helps us newbies stay in the groove.
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Post by TheRock on Jan 7, 2020 23:23:53 GMT -5
Looks like you got some good help Gadabout to the forum.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 7, 2020 23:30:41 GMT -5
Whoa. 1200 is not polish, prepolish at best. Your bits of Basalt may not shine, it's quite variable in composition and can be quite soft sometimes. Your "Agates" are are actually nice bits of Quartz, they should polish up well when you get some polish compound. I think you are well on your way, recommended polish here is Al Oxide from the rock shed, Tin Oxide or Cerium Oxide will also do the job. Good catch Pauls. I misread that and thought it said 12,000.
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Post by aDave on Jan 7, 2020 23:41:07 GMT -5
And pauls , thanks for the referral to the rock shed. I'm going to order a fresh batch of grits from them, including that aluminum oxide polish Good choice in going to the Rock Shed. You'll be well taken care of, and the prices there are just about the best you may find. Just a couple points or comments: If you are going to buy more grit, buy more of the 60/90 than your other grit amounts. In answer to your question, you should do weekly cleanouts and add new grit. Some folks will simply "recharge" the barrel and simply add grit at that stage. I always like doing weekly cleanouts (rinses) so I can inspect what's going on with each rock. Because you will be adding grit weekly in this stage, you'll go through the 60/90 much faster than the others. If more 500 grit is on your shopping list, I'd highly recommend buying aluminum oxide (AO) instead of Silicon Carbide (SiC). SiC tends to "cut" more, and AO tends to smooth. I felt I had better finished rocks when I used AO instead of the SiC. Lastly, when you order polish, you won't find a size listed. However, there's no need to worry about it not being fine enough. According to what I learned in a phone call with the owner, the AO polish is 13,000 - more than adequate for what you're doing. This polish works very, very well and it's typically cheaper than Cerium or Tin Oxide. Good luck.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 7, 2020 23:43:40 GMT -5
So many questions, and appreciate the info very much. Thanks knave . I will do the first run longer than a week, but will the course grit hold out? Should I refresh the course grit after a week or so? And pauls , thanks for the referral to the rock shed. I'm going to order a fresh batch of grits from them, including that aluminum oxide polish. This forum is very helpful. The friendly encouragement a newcomer receives really helps us newbies stay in the groove. Most harder rocks like agates and such can take a very long time in the first coarse stage. Many months sometimes. You want to do a complete clean out each week and check the rocks for shape and smoothness. If they’re not ready then yes you want to do the whole process over again with fresh coarse grit and water. Another thing to note, that wasn’t mentioned is that you want to make sure that your barrels are 2/3 to 3/4 full. Then fill with water to the bottom of the top layer of rocks and then add your grit. Most people seem to add about a Tbsp. of grit per pound of rocks. I personally use a little more at 8 Tbsp for my 6 pound barrels. You should see a huge difference once you get the correct AO polish from The Rock Shed.
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Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 8, 2020 18:33:42 GMT -5
This is what I used for polish. Looks like the same aluminum oxide polish I'd get from the rock shed. Maybe the 1200 grit is a mislabeling, maybe not. Either way, I'm going to get a new order of grit from the rock shed, with an extra amount of the course grit. And, I'm going to follow all of the other advice y'all have given me. This is really a fun new hobby, and the anticipation helps to pass the cold Wisconsin winter months. Thank you all for the help!
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 316
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Post by whyofquartz on Jan 8, 2020 18:41:55 GMT -5
I am about as novice as you can get when it comes to rock tumbling. I just tumbled my first batch using a Lortone 3A, with 1 week each in coarse grit, fine grit, pre polish and then final polish. I am a little disappointed with the result. I was primarily trying to get my agate polished up nice and shiny. That is the one in the lower left of the group photo, and also the one singled out in the 2 individual photos (front & back). The rest of the stones were just filler. I also used ceramic filler that I bought from rocktumbler.com. The finish ended up being quite dull. What did I do wrong? I thought that I cleaned out the barrell thouroughly before and after each grit change. Did I include stones of the wrong hardness in the group? It was mostly quartz, but also a couple pieces of basalt and a few others that appeared to be the same hardness as agate, but maybe not. Any advice? Is there still a way I can get that agate polished up nice and shiny? Thank you for any help you can provide. My next batch is going to be all quartz that I have grinded into very nice symmetrical shapes, but I don't want to start another batch without first asking you experts for advice. Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/90078/advice-newbie#ixzz6AOjPI95VIs this all you ran in a 3a? because if i had to hazard a guess that is part of the solution, you need lots of rocks touching each other to get a good polish. i think RocksInNJ mentioned 66-75% full barrel. for comparison here was my last 3lb batch this is part of an experimental tumble in a vein that a few guys have been trying of tumbling 1 big rock so this is not an appropriate array of rock sizes but should give you an idea of the volume
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Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 8, 2020 19:02:44 GMT -5
Hey thanks whyofquartz (love that user name). No, the photo does not show all of the rocks I had in the 3 lb barrel. I only took a photo of just enough to show the variety I had. I probably had at least 3 times as many stones, plus some ceramic media (I added the ceramic media as the volume of stones was reduced due to the tumbling). I always kept the barrel 2/3 to 3/4 full. From what I've heard from other folks here, I think my main problems were that I had stones in the mix that were too soft, and that I also did not do the course grit long enough. I just ordered a whole bunch of new grit (wow, shipping is expensive when you order 30 pounds of stuff). By the end of this winter, with a few loads under my belt and the great advice I get here, I should be on my way to knowing a bit more about what the heck I'm doing. I've got some real pretty stones in the batch I'm tumbling now. I'll be sure to post a pic if any of them turn out nice.
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Post by Pat on Jan 8, 2020 19:10:26 GMT -5
Lots of tumbling expertise here. We started out as tumblers, but when they weren’t finished by dinner time, I decided tumbling wasn’t for me!
I use our little tumbler to put a shine on sterling pieces. Does good job.
Welcome from California!
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Post by aDave on Jan 8, 2020 23:46:38 GMT -5
This is what I used for polish. Looks like the same aluminum oxide polish I'd get from the rock shed. Maybe the 1200 grit is a mislabeling, maybe not. Either way, I'm going to get a new order of grit from the rock shed, with an extra amount of the course grit. And, I'm going to follow all of the other advice y'all have given me. This is really a fun new hobby, and the anticipation helps to pass the cold Wisconsin winter months. Thank you all for the help! This pack is "seriously" mislabled as polish since it's only 1200. You've been set in the right direction, as this stuff would have only be considered as a pre-polish. Go with what we've already told you. This stuff can be used between 500 and polish if you choose to do so, but it's not necessary. I avoided doing a 1000 or so pre-polish by running my 500 AO for two weeks straight without a cleanout. That's what I chose to do, and it worked for me.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jan 9, 2020 8:02:15 GMT -5
"The grit is 60/90, then 120/20, then 500/600 and the polish is 1200." The 2nd abrasive is 120/220 Gadabout. And welcome to RTH ! The basalt and the granites will be tricky to polish. The basalt is usually too soft and the granite has felspar and quartz, felspar best left to the masters. I would fill the barrel with ALL well rounded white quartz pebbles for your maiden voyage. It will save a lot of shaping time in step 1(60/90) if you use water rounded quartz. Even the Quartz can be a little tricky to polish but much much easier than basalt and granite. In a small 3 pound barrel I would do 10 days 120/220, 7 days 500/600, 7 days 1200 and 7 to 10 days Rock Shed polish(13,000). The 60/90 step depends on how well the water rounded the quartz. Try picking a mix of smaller rounded quartz pebbles .75 to 1.5 inches in size. 70-75% barrel fill. So if you use water rounded quartz you can get down to business quicker and land you a polish using the 120/220-500/600-1200-13,000 steps, the challenging part of tumbling. If you roll the alum ox 1200 long enough it may break down to a polish but it may take a long time in a small 3 pound barrel. Best to get the Rock Shed polish. For identification purposes these are granites. Don't be tempted ! If you are in Wisconsin you probably have beautiful granite. Again, it is tempting to tumble granite due to it's beauty but usually ends up not polishing well or under cutting due to being a mixture of hard quartz and softer felspar. Best of luck. ETA The shoreline in your avatar looks like a tumbler's gold mine. Lucky you. Please post a closer up photo of the shore pebbles.
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Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 9, 2020 8:22:17 GMT -5
Thx Pat, aDave and jamesp. That's helpful info. I didn't realize granite could be an issue. Seeing how nice granite countertops polish up, I thought they would polish nice in the tumbler. One of the best things about working with these stones is it gives me an excuse to head back up to the Gitche Gumee for some rock picking and agate hunting. Whitefish Point and Grand Marais, MI are my two favorite spots. The north shore of Lake Superior is spectacular too, but that's a long drive because that dang Lake is in the way. I'm getting a much better idea of what kind of stones I want to throw in my collection bag. Think I'll stick mostly with well shaped quartz. There's lots of milky, rosy and even green quartz that's real pretty stuff. Guess I'll keep learning as I get more batches done in the tumbler.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jan 9, 2020 9:02:18 GMT -5
Thx Pat, aDave and jamesp. That's helpful info. I didn't realize granite could be an issue. Seeing how nice granite countertops polish up, I thought they would polish nice in the tumbler. One of the best things about working with these stones is it gives me an excuse to head back up to the Gitche Gumee for some rock picking and agate hunting. Whitefish Point and Grand Marais, MI are my two favorite spots. The north shore of Lake Superior is spectacular too, but that's a long drive because that dang Lake is in the way. I'm getting a much better idea of what kind of stones I want to throw in my collection bag. Think I'll stick mostly with well shaped quartz. There's lots of milky, rosy and even green quartz that's real pretty stuff. Guess I'll keep learning as I get more batches done in the tumbler. Granite polishes well when using a wheel on it, counter tops for instance. The abrasive action in a tumbler is very different Gadabout. Fill that barrel with 3/4 to 1.5 inch well rounded quartz babies and get us a shine please. And a photo of that L Superior gravel shore please. By the way agates are the easiest to polish, but slowest to shape in step 1.
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Gadabout
starting to shine!
Member since December 2019
Posts: 48
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Post by Gadabout on Jan 9, 2020 18:01:41 GMT -5
Hey jamesp, sorry, didn't see your request for photos until just now. I've got a few coming up
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