stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 17, 2020 14:38:04 GMT -5
Hello all,
I recently received a Harbor Freight double 3lb tumbler for my birthday. I did a bunch of research and got my supplies together to start my first tumble. I only started out with filling one of the 3lb buckets, to make sure I didn't screw up two buckets on my first run.
I filled the bucket about 2/3 to 3/4 full with rock, added my rough grit and filled with water just below the surface of the rocks. I set the tumbler in motion and it's turning and sloshing around... I'm happy. I checked on the tumbler every hour for 3 hours before bed and all was well.
I got up this morning and checked on the tumbler... The tumbler had moved and thus jacked up the buckets. They were not even anymore and who knows how long it had been like that. It was long enough to move the coating on the driveshaft away from the motor and ate away about a quarter of the plastic/rubber coating by pushing it into the far side of the tumbler frame. Now, obviously, it won't work correctly. Even after pushing the coating back, it just won't spin smoothly anymore. I'm pretty bummed, but have been in other hobbies and know it's just a set back and the answer is usually to have a spare to use while I fix the broken one, so I'm thinking I will stop down at our local rock shop and see if they have a nicer tumbler to get this stuff rolling again.
What did I learn?
Not to put the tumbler on a shelf with the ability to move to a not level section of the shelf. It had sides on it, so I knew it wouldn't fall off the shelf.
I didn't push the little plastic guides closer to the buckets to keep them in line. Although, not sure if that would have helped in this situation.
I'm a mechanic/fleet manager and know better than to use Harbor Freight tools when I need to rely on them, but it was a gift, so I guess I already knew that one.
Questions: Should I take the water and grit out of the bucket or can I leave it in there until I get my new tumbler or parts for the HF one?
Are side by side tumblers problematic or just the HF ones?
|
|
|
Post by knave on Jan 17, 2020 14:47:31 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. I have the single HF tumbler so can’t answer all your questions on that. You can put new coating on the drive shaft if you need to. And oil those bushings.
|
|
doublet83
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 118
|
Post by doublet83 on Jan 17, 2020 14:48:56 GMT -5
You can leave the water and grit in there. Once you run it again everything should mix again.
I don't own a HF tumbler, I've heard that they are usable, albeit lower quality at a lower price compared to Lortone or Thumbler.
All tumblers need a reasonably level surface or you will get more wear and tear on one side. So your issue might occur with another tumbler as well.
A machine like the Lortone 33B will run about 2 to 3 years of non stop use before the motor needs to be replaced. The thumbler model B has parts that need to be replaced every year.
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 17, 2020 14:56:49 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. I have the single HF tumbler so can’t answer all your questions on that. You can put new coating on the drive shaft if you need to. And oil those bushings. Being a mechanic I should know better... I forgot to lube the bushing. Albeit, I'm sure not the cause of my problems, but would soon enough.
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 17, 2020 14:58:55 GMT -5
You can leave the water and grit in there. Once you run it again everything should mix again. I don't own a HF tumbler, I've heard that they are usable, albeit lower quality at a lower price compared to Lortone or Thumbler. All tumblers need a reasonably level surface or you will get more wear and tear on one side. So your issue might occur with another tumbler as well. A machine like the Lortone 33B will run about 2 to 3 years of non stop use before the motor needs to be replaced. The thumbler model B has parts that need to be replaced every year. Not sure how to multi quote here...?
I thought it was level enough... Haha, I'll only make that mistake once, I hope.
Thanks for the information! I will look into a Lortone because I'm of the mind to buy quality the first time. Also, thanks for the heads up on leaving the mix in the bucket.
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 17, 2020 19:34:37 GMT -5
Well, I'm lucky (unlucky wallet) enough to have a rock shop about a half mile from the place I work, so I ended up running over to Bernie's Rock Shop on my lunch and grabbed a Lortone 33A. I justified it a bunch of ways. I figured I would go with the single barrel and then I can get a bigger setup for bigger rocks, after I get the HF tumbler fixed up and running correctly again. Thanks for the help and enabling!
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 18, 2020 12:37:01 GMT -5
I have successfully had the Lortone running for 14 hours and everything is going great! It seems to me that the Lortone is a bit quieter than the Harbor Freight tumbler. Never having a tumbler before I thought that the HF tumbler was spinning too fast. After getting the Lortone running I quickly realized that the HR was running correctly after all. The Lrotone doesn't have any coating over the drive shaft or roller and it spins with ease. I was thinking, maybe I should just cut off the coating on the driveshaft/roller of the HF rig. Anyone have any thoughts that would make that a bad idea? Figured I would ask before and not after cutting things off the machine. If nobody has anything at all to say, I'm all in for experimenting in the name of science.
|
|
|
Post by knave on Jan 18, 2020 12:41:17 GMT -5
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 18, 2020 13:24:48 GMT -5
Thanks knave, I appreciate the idea of using something different for the driveshaft wrap. I just went down to burp my mix and when I opened it up there was a bunch of foam on the top. Is that due to too much gas in the mix or something else? Is it a sign of something wrong? If so, what to do to remedy the possible issue?
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Jan 18, 2020 14:02:49 GMT -5
Thanks knave, I appreciate the idea of using something different for the driveshaft wrap. I just went down to burp my mix and when I opened it up there was a bunch of foam on the top. Is that due to too much gas in the mix or something else? Is it a sign of something wrong? If so, what to do to remedy the possible issue? Sometimes foaming occurs early on (first few days) of a coarse stage grind. Sometimes it may be the material, or it may be caused by some organic substance on the rocks. After a few days or so, it shouldn't be an issue any longer.
|
|
|
Post by knave on Jan 18, 2020 14:13:13 GMT -5
I agree it looks normal to me. It can also happen in the polish stage.
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Jan 18, 2020 14:58:34 GMT -5
It can also happen in the polish stage. Now that you mention it, that is true, but I think that's due to too much polish which ends up with a thick foamy mess. When I was using a 4lb barrel and finishing with a rotary, Lortone's manual called for 8 Tbsp of polish, and that's what I started with. It was thick, foamy, and difficult to clean off (AO polish). To make things more difficult, I was using plastic pellets for cushioning which only added to the "texture" of the liquid. I ended up cutting back significantly to only using 3 Tbsp of AO polish in a 4lb barrel, and things finished (polished) quite nicely. There was no real thickness to the slurry (if you want to call it that), it was easier to clean off any polish residue, and I obviously saved by not overdosing the barrel and using up polish. Not meaning to hijack, but here's some bloodstone that was finished in the rotary with the reduced amount of polish. No negative effect as far as I can see.
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 20, 2020 16:37:06 GMT -5
Those look beautiful aDave! So, I stopped over by my local hardware store and found some 5/16" ID X 7/16" OD vinyl tubing to try and fix my drive shaft on the HF tumbler. It was really close to the same size as stock and seems to work fine. If it ends up glazing over and slipping too much I will find some rubber tubing of the same dimensions, I imagine that should fix any slipping issues. Nice to have it running for my rock delivery tomorrow from Shawn at the Rock Shed. I got 5lbs of rocks with a hardness of 7. Is the general rule that you can blindly tumble rocks of the same hardness or at least without major issues? What I have coming: Banded Amethyst Blue Tiger Eye Mexican Lace Agate Green Tree Moss Agate Amethyst Crystals
|
|
|
Post by aDave on Jan 20, 2020 18:11:54 GMT -5
Those look beautiful aDave! So, I stopped over by my local hardware store and found some 5/16" ID X 7/16" OD vinyl tubing to try and fix my drive shaft on the HF tumbler. It was really close to the same size as stock and seems to work fine. If it ends up glazing over and slipping too much I will find some rubber tubing of the same dimensions, I imagine that should fix any slipping issues. Nice to have it running for my rock delivery tomorrow from Shawn at the Rock Shed. I got 5lbs of rocks with a hardness of 7. Is the general rule that you can blindly tumble rocks of the same hardness or at least without major issues? What I have coming: Banded Amethyst Blue Tiger Eye Mexican Lace Agate Green Tree Moss Agate Amethyst Crystals Thank you. Looks like that tubing should work out well. Even if they are not exactly the same in OD, I wouldn't expect too much of an impact on rotational speed of your barrels. You have a nice assortment of material to work with, so it should be fun to get things off the ground. To answer your question, a mixed batch of rocks is fine, as long as the hardness is close. I can't recall where I read it, but I've seen something written about having no more of a difference in hardness than 1.0 on the Mohs scale. I may have the number wrong, but that would seem to make sense. ETA: Maybe that difference that I read about was 1.5. Not sure. But, that should give you a pretty good guideline.
|
|
JBe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 103
|
Post by JBe on Jan 21, 2020 18:00:17 GMT -5
I started out with a HF style knockoff of the Lortone 33B about a year ago. I could never get the barrels to stay centered and they'd burn through the guide levers pretty quickly. I ended up removing the guides, drilling a hole on the non motor side, and inserting one of these roller bearings www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M65QOFO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I just elevate the motor end slightly to keep the barrels riding on the bearing. I'd attach a picture of my bearing conversion but the tumbler's not in my possession currently. I passed it on to a friend who is still using it today. I haven't had any issues with the hoses on the drive shafts walking. It seems the reliability of these inexpensive tumblers is really hit or miss.
|
|
|
Post by knave on Jan 21, 2020 18:29:38 GMT -5
That silly plastic lever is worthless I agree. We’ve been just letting it run with out it.
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 22, 2020 0:32:29 GMT -5
Thanks JBe, that's a good idea with the roller bearing as a guide. I will have to use that link if I start having trouble with them. I received my order of rocks today, put my vinyl tube fix to the test tonight and things seem to be running smoothly at this point. I'm only running one of the two barrels on the HF tumbler. I figured I would wait for the first two barrels to start giving some finished rocks before I move on to the second stage with the third and final clean tumbler that I have. I'll check it and see if it's still running in the morning. I am very happy with the rocks, shipping cost and delivery time from the Rock Shop! This great forum has me thinking of getting a TV-5 for polishing, might as well try to make a real commitment to the hobby with my third tumbler in a month...
|
|
stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
|
Post by stewdogg on Jan 24, 2020 22:58:45 GMT -5
I pulled my first batch today after 7 days and it was still foamy...? Not sure why? I have the HF tumbler going and it's not foamy like this one. Is all of the grit supposed to pummel into nothing/sludge? There seemed to be some grit left on the rocks when I cleaned them off. A quick pic of the rocks before going back in. I put them all back in for some more time and fresh grit. I suppose I'll check it in the morning for foam. I guess maybe run it for a few days and then inspect the rocks or just go the full week?
|
|
|
Post by knave on Jan 25, 2020 0:40:39 GMT -5
The real grinding happens after the sticky slurry develops. More grit can help it get started quicker. Yes that batch needs to run another week in rough and then you can cherry-pick the smooth ones to pass on to the 2nd stage. I have some amethyst in the HF tumbler that’s doing the same thing. Staying foamy and watery not sticky like mud or clay. I’ll check it tomorrow and if it’s still thin I’ll add kitty litter or mud from my saw.
|
|
|
Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 25, 2020 6:18:55 GMT -5
I get the foam a lot with my rocks. It must be something in certain ones.
|
|