stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
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Post by stewdogg on Jan 30, 2020 9:53:47 GMT -5
Hello all, I recently received a Harbor Freight double 3lb tumbler for my birthday. I did a bunch of research and got my supplies together to start my first tumble. I only started out with filling one of the 3lb buckets, to make sure I didn't screw up two buckets on my first run.
I filled the bucket about 2/3 to 3/4 full with rock, added my rough grit and filled with water just below the surface of the rocks. I set the tumbler in motion and it's turning and sloshing around... I'm happy. Questions: Should I take the water and grit out of the bucket or can I leave it in there until I get my new tumbler or parts for the HF one?
Depends on the slurry. It can set up like concrete! Got a hammer and chisel? Haha, I haven't gotten to the slurry yet, just foam. I hope not to find the concrete though.
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stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
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Post by stewdogg on Feb 4, 2020 9:46:51 GMT -5
I checked my mixes on Saturday night and I had one good and one not so good. Wooferhound was correct, it still had too much water in the barrel. By the time I did my check, the water level had gone above the level of the rocks. I dumped a bunch of water out, topped with a bit of grit and a tad of litter just because I don't seem to have a problem with too thick of slurry. This is what I had going back in. The Harbor Freight barrel looked like it did the last time I checked, ok, maybe a little wet still...? So, I put both barrels back on their respective tumblers Saturday night and they were rockin away. Fast forward to last night. I walked down to check on the rocks and I noticed a different sound than normal. What do I see, the HF tumbler is making noise, but no barrel rolling. I knew before I looked that the drive belt snapped. Funny thing is I can't find the crappy spare belts I got with the tumbler. I looked for far too long before I gave in and ordered some new aftermarket ones that should be here tomorrow. I also have some 60/90 grit coming today as well. I'm lucky enough to be going on a week vacation next week. How does everyone deal with an absence like that? Stop everything and put the rocks in water, stop and leave things as they are in the barrels or let them run?
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Feb 4, 2020 10:21:54 GMT -5
I just check them and reload them with grit before I go, and leave them all week. In fact, my rock "shop" is in a shed behind a rental house we own, a few blocks away from my own home. I usually let it go all week and just check it Friday after work, or over the weekend. So far, so good.
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Post by knave on Feb 4, 2020 10:34:41 GMT -5
Little bit of grit... how much grit do you have in there? More grit will give you quicker slurry as well
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stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
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Post by stewdogg on Feb 4, 2020 11:26:24 GMT -5
Little bit of grit... how much grit do you have in there? More grit will give you quicker slurry as well I started with 5 Tbs of grit, poured a bunch of water and grit out then added about 1/4 Tbs grit back in to compensate for the bit I took out. Thanks joushamcduffie, I have a hanging auto (?) fire extinguisher I will hang over them and let em rip while I'm gone.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Feb 4, 2020 23:57:52 GMT -5
I'm sitting here at the back of the class with an "umm" look on my face.
I'm not quite understanding the Tums and baking soda suggestions for reducing foam. On one hand I have tried baking soda for the purposes of thickening, only to be bit by it and have the lid pop off.
Both of these are carbonates: calcium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate. They evolve carbon dioxide gas when they react with acids. I hesitate to add things I know can pop the barrel.
(Thermal decomposition is a thing too but I think that's beyond the temps you'd expect to see in a barrel. I'm not sure if the local high temps generated at the point of impact between two stones would be high enough to decompose a nearby carbonate molecule)
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Feb 5, 2020 9:07:59 GMT -5
I'm sitting here at the back of the class with an "umm" look on my face. I'm not quite understanding the Tums and baking soda suggestions for reducing foam. On one hand I have tried baking soda for the purposes of thickening, only to be bit by it and have the lid pop off. Both of these are carbonates: calcium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate. They evolve carbon dioxide gas when they react with acids. I hesitate to add things I know can pop the barrel. (Thermal decomposition is a thing too but I think that's beyond the temps you'd expect to see in a barrel. I'm not sure if the local high temps generated at the point of impact between two stones would be high enough to decompose a nearby carbonate molecule)I think you are correct, that there's no reason to add baking soda or tums to the mix, and I don't think a little foam hurts anything either.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2020 16:13:54 GMT -5
If rocks are alkaline and water is acidic plan on foam. Or it can be reversed. But knowing the ph of rocks is a problem. If the ph of one or both is not known then you have to guess whether to add baking soda or vinegar. Litmus paper will tell you the ph of the water easily. The time to add the baking soda or tums is to dissolve it into the acidic water before pouring it into a barrel of alkaline rocks. Or add vinegar to alkaline water before pouring into a barrel of acidic rocks.
I can say from experience if you add ph 6 acidic water to (always) alkaline concrete tumbles you are guaranteed serious foam. An extreme case. Add a good bit of baking soda to the water and all will go well.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Feb 6, 2020 16:27:07 GMT -5
So, you'd want to neutralize the solution, as close as you can, before buttoning up the barrel.
Alright, I can see that.
If just dumping in a few tbsp baking soda, then capping it, that's a recipe for increasing barrel pressure. Which was the impression I was getting.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Feb 6, 2020 18:01:15 GMT -5
So, you'd want to neutralize the solution, as close as you can, before buttoning up the barrel. Alright, I can see that. If just dumping in a few tbsp baking soda, then capping it, that's a recipe for increasing barrel pressure. Which was the impression I was getting. 3 choices. Mix acid with acid, alkaline with alkaline, or neutralize all to ph 7. To avoid ph reaction before capping. acid + acid = no fizz alkaline + alkaline = no fizz Alkaline + acid = fizz Slurry from concrete is so hot(alkaline) it will damage your skin. In chunks concrete is quite neutral and safe to skin. " Basic & portland cement is alkaline in nature, so wet Caustic concrete and other cement mixtures are strongly basic (pH of 12 to 13). Strong bases-like strong acids-are harmful, or caustic to skin." I forgot neutral + neutral = no fizz
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Post by knave on Feb 6, 2020 18:54:35 GMT -5
Foil and vitreous China cleaner makes fizz ETA Don’t do the following. Little foil balls put them in empty 2 liter Add santeen Tighten cap Step back.
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stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
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Post by stewdogg on Apr 7, 2020 11:23:20 GMT -5
Alright, thanks to all the help and enabling around here, I'm finally about to get to the polish stage of my first batch of rocks. I have had long enough around here to end up with a TV-5 before I even got to the polish stage, so after searching a bit, I have some more questions.
I was wondering if it is worth while to run a 1000 stage in my tumbler after my 500 stage and before polishing in the TV-5? I have mostly 7 hardness rocks.
I'm also questioning my ceramic from the prior stages having grit in them (I can see some black specs in them) and wondering how to get it out. I know that I can't use fresh ceramics in the polish stage due to the sharp edges. I have too many months of prep time with these rocks that I want the best possible outcome.
One last curiosity, is there any value to adding walnut shells or corn to the vibe polish stage?
Thanks, I really appreciate the hand holding!!
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EricD
Cave Dweller
High in the Mountains
Member since November 2019
Posts: 1,142
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Post by EricD on Apr 7, 2020 11:59:02 GMT -5
Alright, thanks to all the help and enabling around here, I'm finally about to get to the polish stage of my first batch of rocks. I have had long enough around here to end up with a TV-5 before I even got to the polish stage, so after searching a bit, I have some more questions. I was wondering if it is worth while to run a 1000 stage in my tumbler after my 500 stage and before polishing in the TV-5? I have mostly 7 hardness rocks. I'm also questioning my ceramic from the prior stages having grit in them (I can see some black specs in them) and wondering how to get it out. I know that I can't use fresh ceramics in the polish stage due to the sharp edges. I have too many months of prep time with these rocks that I want the best possible outcome. One last curiosity, is there any value to adding walnut shells or corn to the vibe polish stage? Thanks, I really appreciate the hand holding!! Since you should be starting with something like 120/220 SiC in the vibe, I don't think anything beyond 60/90 SiC in the rotary would benefit you. However you can do finer grit in the rotary, it just takes a lot more time than a vibe. If you are only using the vibe for polish, I recommend ao500 as your last rotary step. It will break down to polish after a while.
The ceramic have imperfections in them. Some of it turns (and stays) grey. Some of it has brown flecks in it. Unless there are cracks that can actually hold grit I wouldn't worry at all. I throw the ones with cracks in File 13.
Organics like walnut shells and corn (cob) do not have a place in a wet tumble environment.
Cheers
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