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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 20, 2020 20:16:27 GMT -5
Today I finally got the big tumbler going, loaded up with Savannah River Agate, well, some of it is probably chert. Excited to see how it turns and the little Nat Geo tumbler is still going strong. 14 months and counting, no rest for the weary.
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Post by RocksInNJ on Jan 20, 2020 23:02:59 GMT -5
Wow, that’s a big tumbler. I’d need a front end loader to load those barrels.
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stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
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Post by stewdogg on Jan 20, 2020 23:47:21 GMT -5
Great looking setup! What size are the barrels?
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2020 7:12:34 GMT -5
All thumbs up Joshua. Liking the long shaft set up. Run one or run three. Lots of flexibility. Looks like 3/4" shafts. You may think about linking the two shafts together with belt/pulleys. I have found if you open the distance between the shafts the traction on the barrel increases greatly as the barrel sits lower in the gap due to higher compression. May eliminate the need for cross driving shafts but this may prevent you from running smaller diameter barrels. Lortone barrels are rubber and have good grip. It looks like you covered the shafts with hose ? Or maybe the shafts are stepped down on ends. I was always too lazy to slide a hose down the shafts. Found it hard to do. I just linked them and run on bare steel shafts with no issues. Savannah www.flickr.com/photos/67205364@N06/11679232874/in/album-72157639250761566/
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Post by knave on Jan 21, 2020 7:56:18 GMT -5
Being a cheapskate I’m wondering if 1” black iron pipe could work as a shaft?
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 21, 2020 8:38:08 GMT -5
Everyone, thanks for all the kind words, advice and encouragement. I believe the shafts are 3/4 inch. The big tumbler is slipping a little on the driven shaft, and the free-rolling shaft isn't turning much. I've put in an order for new pillow block bearings, I don't know much about the condition of the current ones, but they don't look great or rotate quite as easily as I feel they should. It's been sitting a while though, maybe once the grease heats up it'll turn more freely. Hopefully later this week I can make some adjustments and get my barrel rotation speed up a little bit. I've got it propped up to put more of the weight on the driven shaft, but I'll add some hose when I have the shafts off to replace the bearings. jamesp I don't think I'll try to connect the shafts right now, but I'll keep it in mind if it still needs more help. I want to keep the gap between the shafts narrow enough to run a replacement barrel, maybe some of your new HDPE ones. I'd like to have one set for each grit to reduce my cleaning efforts, in a perfect world. stewdogg - The barrels are 7 inches wide and 8 inches high, so about 1.3 gallons. They are comparable in size to a paint can. I'm inspired by some of the folks on here to build one from scratch. I just need to find the time.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2020 13:11:16 GMT -5
I about have to rotate both shafts because of sticky slurry pulling on the barrel. If power goes out and comes back on sometimes the the shaft may slip on the barrel and wear a grove in the barrel. Or water gets on the shaft via barrel leak and the same thing happens. Just saying, 2 shaft drive is a good thing. My barrels will be 6 5/8" diameter if you need to know. Happy tumbling.
ETA Savannah River chert sitting on the surface has often been heat treated by modern or ancient forest fires to beautiful colors. Most of the dirt roads down at Stoney Bluff are loaded with heat treated chert.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 21, 2020 14:04:37 GMT -5
jamesp - I'll see about ordering some pulleys to convert the rollers to 2-shaft drive. I picked up the Savannah River Agate/Chert along "River Road" near the intersection of Stoney Bluff and Oglethorpe Trail. Any advice on where to get the good heat treated stuff in particular? I definitely have some with nice red color, but the bulk of what I picked isn't that good. Neat patterns, but tending towards tans and greys. If I could get more of the bright colors, I'd go back again. I've been reading the threads on heat treating, there's a lot of good info.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jan 21, 2020 17:19:20 GMT -5
jamesp - I'll see about ordering some pulleys to convert the rollers to 2-shaft drive. I picked up the Savannah River Agate/Chert along "River Road" near the intersection of Stoney Bluff and Oglethorpe Trail. Any advice on where to get the good heat treated stuff in particular? I definitely have some with nice red color, but the bulk of what I picked isn't that good. Neat patterns, but tending towards tans and greys. If I could get more of the bright colors, I'd go back again. I've been reading the threads on heat treating, there's a lot of good info. If you can get to the big red oval where the trees are recently cut good rock is there. The circled section of the road is good but picked over. The circled section to left of road is good but probably grown over. The road is legal. The land to the left of the road is probably private and posted. The entire area marked is a giant Native camp due to spring head water access below marked ares. The entire area is peppered with Native man's finest heat treated chert. As in most cases the chert those guys bought in to heat treat is the best of the best. Probably mined at great great great great great great...........grandaddy's honey hole. This area was a 30 mile circle of chert and a giant Native man's mine. Too bad it is about all posted.
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quartz
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Post by quartz on Jan 21, 2020 21:41:39 GMT -5
knave, black pipe won't work for roller shafts, no bearings are made to fit it, and the size of the pipe itself varies due to a fairly open manufacturing tolerance. It could be machined on a lathe to accommodate bearings but the cost would probably be greater than buying cold rolled shafting.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 21, 2020 21:49:34 GMT -5
Just looking online, the shafts are not expensive.
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Post by knave on Jan 21, 2020 21:49:56 GMT -5
knave, black pipe won't work for roller shafts, no bearings are made to fit it, and the size of the pipe itself varies due to a fairly open manufacturing tolerance. It could be machined on a lathe to accommodate bearings but the cost would probably be greater than buying cold rolled shafting. Ah man. Of course. Well thx for saving me the headache.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 22, 2020 8:02:37 GMT -5
jamesp - Thanks for the map! I stayed mostly along the road and in the creek bed near the road. It had been very recently graded, so maybe that helped me out, but there was a lot of material right on the road surface. I dug a little in the woods, maybe within about 20 yards of the road, but didn't find much there. Next time I'll see about checking out the field, perhaps I can track down the owner and get appropriate permission.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2020 13:26:29 GMT -5
jamesp - Thanks for the map! I stayed mostly along the road and in the creek bed near the road. It had been very recently graded, so maybe that helped me out, but there was a lot of material right on the road surface. I dug a little in the woods, maybe within about 20 yards of the road, but didn't find much there. Next time I'll see about checking out the field, perhaps I can track down the owner and get appropriate permission. I remember this spot well. The left half of the area circled in the field was richest in tumble sized heat treated chips and chunks. There was a deer stand on the soil road between the red oval and the circled field. The soil road was loaded but I felt uncomfortable collecting close to the stand. Best way is to get permission. There has been problems with trespassers in that entire area. I used to frequent that area 35 years ago. There were 500 pound boulders of chert laying around. Land was in timber ownership back then and trespassing was no issue. I have a large box full of chert tools found mostly to the upstream side of the boat ramp in the water at low river levels over the years. Spearheads too. The ~10 acres to the left of the boat ramp (upstream side) is a massive camp. The large house built on that lot now. It was practically paved in arrow and spear chert pre-fprms. The reason Stony Bluff was such a hot spot for Native man is because of the 20 mile circle of exposed chert but also it is the only high and dry approach to the river for miles up or downstream. Bryozoan chert Savannah River point. Not mine but typical material and large size/shape.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 22, 2020 14:12:48 GMT -5
Good history on the area. There are still some giant boulders of chert around the road cut, I took a picture and I'll try to add it to the thread tonight. I'd definitely like to go back to look for more of the heat treated stuff. My last batch of Savannah River tumbles had some nice reds in it.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 22, 2020 14:17:57 GMT -5
The arrowhead knappers hauled off a lot of that material. It is in high demand. They heat treat it. It makes fine spearheads.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 23, 2020 20:19:36 GMT -5
Here are some big boys, too big for me to load in the Avalon.
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Post by joshuamcduffie on Jan 23, 2020 20:21:34 GMT -5
And here are some nice red ones, which I assume are the heat treated ones, and some of the normal brown ones, that I put into the nat geo tumbler.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Jan 24, 2020 5:40:27 GMT -5
Wow. The arrowhead guys would buy every bit of that. Are you aware that those boulders will break quit easily with an 8 pound sledge ? It has been years since seeing a boulder that big. The inside of it will have beautiful material in it. That chert is glassy and splits easy with a sledge but you better cover it with carpet before hitting it or you will get cut severely by flying fragments. Take a small hammer and hammer away the soft lime coating till you see the brown chert, then hit the glassy brown(chert) spot with a sledge. You'd be surprised how easy those boulders split. Watch youtube videos - making spalls. Then load that sucker in the Avalon. If that chert is red or green it has seen heat. Apparently it is due to iron. Also, if you dig it out of clay it will have more iron and other metal salts in it making some rich colors after heated. Chert dug out of sandy soil is often more bleached looking. Clay yields richer color. Or the deeper sections of boulders where the water is trapped internally. This one has deeper brown patterns signifying high iron. It would light up like a Christmas tree if heat treated.
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Post by RickB on Jan 24, 2020 7:26:11 GMT -5
I never go there when hunting season is going on so I do check the Burke Co. hunting seasons - the hunters pay to be there and I don't want to bother them. Have met and talked to deer and hog hunters there before. I stay to the road and ditches only and always take a industrial size pry bar, long chisels, wedges to break off some of the big pieces. Have had rock shrapnel fly by me as far away as 20 ft when others were breaking the chert from there - makes a whistling noise when going through the air. I'll try to post photos of arrow/knife blades I've made from raw and heat treated chert from that location. Haven't worked any in a long time.
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