reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Feb 27, 2020 22:12:16 GMT -5
As some of you may know, I'm still working on my first ever full tumbling process. I threw a bunch of rocks in a 1# tumbler when I first bought it, destroyed some fluorite, and have all of those rocks sitting in a plastic cup (very high tech) while I tumble some other things. Last Saturday, I started a new tumble with peach moonstone, "rainbow" moonstone, pink opal, and labradorite in the 1#, and yesterday, my new tumbler (33B) came so I set that up and started another tumble with jaspers. I read online that a good "rule of thumb" is 7 days tumbling in your first course grit for rocks with Mohs hardness of 7, and then subtract 1.5 days for each 1 Mohs scale, so Mohs 6 = 5.5 days, Mohs 5 = 4 days, etc. So, tonight marks 5.5 days, so I went to check on my rocks, clean the barrel out, etc.
Anyway, I put them all back into the tumbler with more of the same coarse grit (I have no idea what the rating/particulate size is; I cannot find it online at all). Partly I did this because I was too tired to clean the barrel out well enough to switch grits. Partly this is because I didn't know how to tell when they were "ready" and assumed that it was better to tumble that first stage longer if unsure. Didn't take pictures also because too tired to remember. Actually, I was so tired I forgot that this was the 1# barrel for a bit (I was confused where my beautiful almost magenta like piece of mookaite was... and why none of my pieces looked like jaspers at all).
My understanding currently of the course grit step is to grind the rocks down into a smooth shape with no (or only intended) crevices in the surface, as those imperfections won't buff out in the polish stage. My edges were very smooth but there were a couple pieces that had some "jutting" if that makes sense, and I wasn't sure if it should be entirely smooth by the end of step 1.
I currently plan on letting this run until Saturday or Sunday, then opening it up and just pulling the rocks out to examine. I want to know what to look for in pieces that can "move ahead" to medium grit. What do you specifically look for? What prompts you to throw a rock back in the coarse grit?
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Post by miket on Feb 27, 2020 22:24:38 GMT -5
You're probably going to get this answer more than once... Until you're satisfied. Seriously, that's it. Some people like them perfect, some don't. I have rocks that have been tumbling for a year.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Feb 27, 2020 23:12:36 GMT -5
Stage one is the only stage that shapes the rocks. The following stages just remove the scratches left from the previous stage. If you look at your rocks wet after stage one that is as good as you can expect them to look when polished if you move them on. Any pits, fractures or rough spots will not be removed in the next stages.
Stage one for me is anywhere between 1 to 16 weeks depending on the rocks. Beach rounded rocks could be shaped in a week but hammer broken or really rough natural agates and jaspers can easily take 16 weeks to become flawless.
Chuck
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Post by aDave on Feb 27, 2020 23:40:40 GMT -5
I currently plan on letting this run until Saturday or Sunday, then opening it up and just pulling the rocks out to examine. I want to know what to look for in pieces that can "move ahead" to medium grit. What do you specifically look for? What prompts you to throw a rock back in the course grit? What to look for? It's whatever you want in terms of finished pieces. The coarse stage, as mentioned above, will dictate how your rocks will look at the end of all of your stages. I don't mean to seem harsh, but it shouldn't matter how any one of us evaluates rocks to move on to the next stage - it's really all on you and what you want. If you're not concerned about "perfection," then a couple of weeks in coarse may be sufficient. If you want flawless rocks, then you may be rolling stuff for months. At the end of the day, it's on you to make that decision. What I like, or what others like, should have no bearing on your own work. YOU have to make your own decision. It's really as simple as that. If you keep in mind that the coarse stage pretty much dictates how your roks will appear at the end of all stages, then there should be no surprises at the end of your runs.
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reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Feb 28, 2020 9:16:46 GMT -5
You're probably going to get this answer more than once... Until you're satisfied. Seriously, that's it. Some people like them perfect, some don't. I have rocks that have been tumbling for a year. A true test in patience. Might be a dumb question, but how do you avoid the rock wearing away in that much time?
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reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Feb 28, 2020 9:22:04 GMT -5
I currently plan on letting this run until Saturday or Sunday, then opening it up and just pulling the rocks out to examine. I want to know what to look for in pieces that can "move ahead" to medium grit. What do you specifically look for? What prompts you to throw a rock back in the course grit? What to look for? It's whatever you want in terms of finished pieces. The coarse stage, as mentioned above, will dictate how your rocks will look at the end of all of your stages. I don't mean to seem harsh, but it shouldn't matter how any one of us evaluates rocks to move on to the next stage - it's really all on you and what you want. If you're not concerned about "perfection," then a couple of weeks in coarse may be sufficient. If you want flawless rocks, then you may be rolling stuff for months. At the end of the day, it's on you to make that decision. What I like, or what others like, should have no bearing on your own work. YOU have to make your own decision. It's really as simple as that. If you keep in mind that the coarse stage pretty much dictates how your roks will appear at the end of all stages, then there should be no surprises at the end of your runs. As somebody who hasn’t done this before, I just didn’t know what to expect. I’m always nervous about grinding away too much of the rock or small patterns, but I do want them to still look nice. I guess if they look nice enough to me while wet that’s what matters?
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Post by RickB on Feb 28, 2020 9:38:25 GMT -5
I would keep a very close eye on the pink opal that you put into the mix with those harder rocks so it doesn't grind down to nothing.
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Post by miket on Feb 28, 2020 10:37:19 GMT -5
You're probably going to get this answer more than once... Until you're satisfied. Seriously, that's it. Some people like them perfect, some don't. I have rocks that have been tumbling for a year. A true test in patience. Might be a dumb question, but how do you avoid the rock wearing away in that much time? It's not dumb at all- it will definitely wear away. That's why some people pull them out sooner, I think. I just start with bigger rocks. Most of what I tumble are agates, so they last a looooooong time before they wear away. It depends on what you're tumbling- check them every week, pull out the ones that are ready to move on.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,681
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 28, 2020 10:51:22 GMT -5
I usually tumble the 1st stage for 7 days to 14 days (depending on what material is being tumbled)… I save my used grit for slurry thickener base... If your tired when doing the changes, it's best to wait till another day, it won't matter that much..
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JBe
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since January 2019
Posts: 103
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Post by JBe on Feb 28, 2020 10:55:03 GMT -5
What to look for? It's whatever you want in terms of finished pieces. The coarse stage, as mentioned above, will dictate how your rocks will look at the end of all of your stages. I don't mean to seem harsh, but it shouldn't matter how any one of us evaluates rocks to move on to the next stage - it's really all on you and what you want. If you're not concerned about "perfection," then a couple of weeks in coarse may be sufficient. If you want flawless rocks, then you may be rolling stuff for months. At the end of the day, it's on you to make that decision. What I like, or what others like, should have no bearing on your own work. YOU have to make your own decision. It's really as simple as that. If you keep in mind that the coarse stage pretty much dictates how your roks will appear at the end of all stages, then there should be no surprises at the end of your runs. As somebody who hasn’t done this before, I just didn’t know what to expect. I’m always nervous about grinding away too much of the rock or small patterns, but I do want them to still look nice. I guess if they look nice enough to me while wet that’s what matters? Just keep in mind that however deep the deepest pit or crack is; that's how much material will need to be removed from the entire surface area of the rock. Sometimes the cracks/pits are so deep you will significantly reduce the overall size of the rock by the time the pits are gone. Sometimes you can tumble long term to get rid of one pit only to reveal more pits beneath the surface. You'll get to a point where may just end up accepting some pits and moving it on. The only real way to avoid this is if you have a dremel or some other grinding tool you can use to clean up specific spots on the rock before tumbling.
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reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Feb 28, 2020 19:47:43 GMT -5
I would keep a very close eye on the pink opal that you put into the mix with those harder rocks so it doesn't grind down to nothing. My understanding is that pink opal is not a true opal. At this point I don't really know what it is *exactly.* I've read something about pink australian opal, which is actually mookaite I guess? And then there's pink common opal, which is often a mix of true opal and chalcedony, and I've read that makes it a bit harder than true opals. Either way, I did try to test the hardness using other rocks to scratch. Quartz scratched it, and it scratched fluorite, so it's somewhere between 4 and 7. The labradorite and moonstones should have a hardness of 6-6.5, and I struggled to determine scratches, between those and the pink opal, so whatever "pink opal" I have probably has a similar hardness. It ran for 5.5 days and didn't seem over tumbled at all. But I am watching this one closely. I also tumbled some of it for 6 days with a mix of different stones with hardness ranging from 3-8, and I think those pieces may need some work still. Very smooth but still have some pitting.
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reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Feb 28, 2020 19:59:50 GMT -5
As somebody who hasn’t done this before, I just didn’t know what to expect. I’m always nervous about grinding away too much of the rock or small patterns, but I do want them to still look nice. I guess if they look nice enough to me while wet that’s what matters? Just keep in mind that however deep the deepest pit or crack is; that's how much material will need to be removed from the entire surface area of the rock. Sometimes the cracks/pits are so deep you will significantly reduce the overall size of the rock by the time the pits are gone. Sometimes you can tumble long term to get rid of one pit only to reveal more pits beneath the surface. You'll get to a point where may just end up accepting some pits and moving it on. The only real way to avoid this is if you have a dremel or some other grinding tool you can use to clean up specific spots on the rock before tumbling. I want to get a dremel or similar to clean up those spots, but I'm not sure if it's practical right now (carpeted floors in an apartment may not be the best place for grinding stone). Funnily enough- I have an "electric nail file for nail shaping," which is basically a prettier-looking and less powerful dremel, and it's far too abrasive for my nails (grinds them down really quick, but that gives me much less control and I'm picky). Bits are ceramic- which may shape the moonstone and opal but I would not want to try it with anything else.
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Post by rmf on Feb 29, 2020 4:30:07 GMT -5
As in life most things are a compromise. The cost of grinding too long is to grind too much away. As you may have figured out tumbling is not like making a cake where you need to keep to a strict recipe or instead of a chocolate cake you get a chocolate tortilla. If you have softer stones you can start with 220 instead of 80 grit. Harder stones may need a month to make them as rounded as you would like (or start with coarser grit) so you tumble them till you are happy. Vib tumblers tend to work poorer on coarse but keep the rock more close to the original shape. Rotary tumblers are cheaper but round more and work well on coarse. this plus the stone hardness and your prefs make a tumbling recipe more of a guide.
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shardy
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 110
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Post by shardy on Feb 29, 2020 5:46:32 GMT -5
I understand the struggle. It's hard to know. My approach is to view everything after the coarse grit stage as prepolish and polish. If I wouldn't polish it the way it is out of coarse, it doesn't go forward.
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Mar 1, 2020 13:14:26 GMT -5
I recommend this book which will save you a lot of time learning how to tumble. I gave a copy to all my grandchildren when I gave them a tumbler to begin the hobby. They have turned out some beautiful results. rocktumbler.com/book.shtml
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whyofquartz
spending too much on rocks
So, Africa is smaller than I expected...
Member since December 2019
Posts: 316
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Post by whyofquartz on Mar 1, 2020 18:20:13 GMT -5
Well i hope all you Senior tumblers are proud of yourselves. Thanks to you i don't have nearly as many rocks ready for pre-polish as i thought. I am no longer satisfied with the post-coarse finish on my rocks even though i had already put them through 220. A bunch of rocks will be going back to coarse for an extended rolling tumble untill the really craggy and really hard ones are either smooth or gone.
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reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Mar 1, 2020 18:52:30 GMT -5
Well i hope all you Senior tumblers are proud of yourselves. Thanks to you i don't have nearly as many rocks ready for pre-polish as i thought. I am no longer satisfied with the post-coarse finish on my rocks even though i had already put them through 220. A bunch of rocks will be going back to coarse for an extended rolling tumble untill the really craggy and really hard ones are either smooth or gone. Same though. I checked on my 1# tumble today (it's been about 8 days tumbled so far), and while I am about 99% happy with most of them, I'm too scared to start the next stage without at least TRYING to get a better finish. That pink opal is looking beautiful though. The peach moonstone has some interesting patterns on magnification, but I'm not 100% sold on it in general (it just don't have the same effect as normal moonstone).
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shardy
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since October 2019
Posts: 110
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Post by shardy on Mar 2, 2020 0:19:05 GMT -5
I'm no senior tumbler by any standard. But here's a tip anyhow. This 35 dollar unit helps get rocks through stage one faster than any hobby tumbler out there would. It'll be 60 once my tuck blade shows up tomorrow. Thanks jamesp
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reynedrop
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since February 2020
Posts: 204
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Post by reynedrop on Mar 2, 2020 1:17:49 GMT -5
I'm no senior tumbler by any standard. But here's a tip anyhow. This 35 dollar unit helps get rocks through stage one faster than any hobby tumbler out there would. It'll be 60 once my tuck blade shows up tomorrow. Thanks jamespI’m not sure what I’m looking at. What is this contraption?
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 2, 2020 1:30:14 GMT -5
Well i hope all you Senior tumblers are proud of yourselves. Thanks to you i don't have nearly as many rocks ready for pre-polish as i thought. I am no longer satisfied with the post-coarse finish on my rocks even though i had already put them through 220. A bunch of rocks will be going back to coarse for an extended rolling tumble untill the really craggy and really hard ones are either smooth or gone. You can thank the tumbler manufacturers for the bogus instructions. Them wanting you to think the first and subsequent grits can be complete in a week don't make it so. Totally unrealistic directions. But if everyone knew it takes considerably longer to get well rounded and finely polished rocks, fewer tumblers would be sold, right?
Carry on, you will become more patient over time.
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