NevadaBill
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Post by NevadaBill on Jun 9, 2020 15:55:56 GMT -5
Good day. As the pandemic turns most of our attention inward to focus on things around the home and such. I thought that I would share one of my new hobbies; baking Sourdough.
I wonder if anyone else at the RTH is a baker with Sourdough experience? It is an art and a science. Kind of like making stuff out of rocks. Only less crunchy.
I am about 8 weeks in to this experiment. That hard part was getting a starter yeast culture going. Then came the harder part. Learning how to make bread which is sour.
Here is my first attempt. It has all of the classic ingredients in it. Only it is too watery. I am not a baker, so this is all new territory for me.
Try 1 had good flavor. But it wasn't as sour as I liked.
Hint1: If you want a sour tasting bread, you should begin to starve your yeast culture of food after raising it. That and torture it in a bunch of other ways. It becomes sour. And is the key to baking bread which is sour.
Try 2 had walnuts. I love Walnuts in anything really, so this was tasty to me. Not too sour, but tasty. The thing about a sour yeast culture, is even if you cook regular old stuff (like waffles, pancakes, or regular bread) with it, the whole experiment turns out way more tasty, than just using yeast from the jar or one of those packets!
Another tip is to leave the flour (which you intend to cook with) out, in the open air for a few weeks or so. If is is whole grain, even better. And thinks like Wheat or Rye are even better!
Try 3 was Walnut / Raisin. Really tasty. More sour. But I read that having a dutch oven would create better results. It does.
It turns out that it really steams up the insides of the bread for like 20-25 minutes. And after removing the lid of the dutch oven, then the outer crust can become really nice and thick and more crunchy.
Try 4 was a Wheat and AP flour attempt. It turned out good. I used a different technique of (folding) the dough during rises, rather than kneading the dough, to try to product larger air pockets and rise. It didn't do much.
Some people like adding real yeast to the mix to get more rise. But really, once your yeastie beasies are hungry and gobbling up any food you throw at them, then adding some flour, gets eaten pretty fast.
Try 5 is another Wheat. I was in such a hurry to cook it, that I forgot to add salt, sugar, or anything else. It is VERY plain tasting. And I also tried to feed the yeast more than I should of (regular 8 hour feedings), and the whole thing just wasn't sour.
But it was good if you put salty butter on it. Very healthy too!
Try 6, my latest attempt. It is a Rye and Wheat combination, that has no salt and no sugar added. This is probably the most healthy slice of bread I have ever eaten in my life. And with butter, it is one of the most tasty. I found out that messing with refridgeration, and rising techniques, that you can effect the sourness also.
But that is where I am at right now. I have my current yeast starter sitting on the counter. It hasn't eaten in over 24 hours. And is starting to get that sour taste. I think it might be a good one. Maybe I will make dinner rolls this time!
I have found out that there are 1 million different Sourdough experts out there, and everyone has had success or failures to share. It is not easy business. Or at least it hasn't been for me yet.
Does anyone else dabble with the Sour stuff? Anyone else got a yeast starter in the fridge at all times?
Just curious.
Thanks for stopping by! Hope this is in the right forum.
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Post by MsAli on Jun 9, 2020 15:56:59 GMT -5
I really enjoy your posts and the bread looks amazing!
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jun 9, 2020 21:32:33 GMT -5
Sourdough is ok, but I don't love it. Your breads look beautiful though, and I bet I would have really liked the walnut/raisin one.
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stewdogg
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2020
Posts: 388
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Post by stewdogg on Jun 9, 2020 23:05:00 GMT -5
I love sourdough bread and always wanted to try and make it.
Where did you get your yeast starter from? Do you need a new starter every time or do you perpetuate it from the first round of starter like Kombucha or fermented veggies?
Your bread looks delicious. The dutch oven makes me want to try and make some on a wood fire.
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Post by orrum on Jun 10, 2020 7:42:26 GMT -5
Yowser but this is a GREAT thread!!!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 10, 2020 9:14:10 GMT -5
I'm with Robin. I don't care for it a whole lot, but your bread LOOKS amazing and tasty. My dad was from the Bay Area and LOVED his sour dough bread. He used to buy it as a treat.
ETA- Bay area reminds me- I have always heard that your local will dictate your sour bread. Something about the climate.
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NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
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Post by NevadaBill on Jun 16, 2020 12:34:27 GMT -5
I love sourdough bread and always wanted to try and make it. Where did you get your yeast starter from? Do you need a new starter every time or do you perpetuate it from the first round of starter like Kombucha or fermented veggies? Your bread looks delicious. The dutch oven makes me want to try and make some on a wood fire. Thank you and I appreciate the comments. Some of it is better tasting than it looks. Others ... Let's just say that you can make a yeast sooo SOUR that you won't enjoy the bread much.
Right off, I purchased my first yeast starter from an Ebay seller from the San Francisco Bay. It is a "mature" starter, and honestly makes better bread than my own self raised starter.
It went well and I used it for a few weeks. My wife got interested and ended up taking it over and she bakes all kinds of strange Asian recipes with it. Once in a while I borrow from the yeast batch.
Knowing how that yeast work now though, I tried to start my own. And it turned out to be pretty easy (luck mostly) as well. Here is a link:
Here is another link that helped out:
Once you get your starter active (i mean REALLY active), then you are ready to sour it. There are many techniques to do this actually.
Here is a link that helped with techniques to sour a yeast starter"
But the bottom line really, and probably most easy thing to do is, to NOT feed your starter. Let it go for a couple days. The yeast gets all grumpy and sour from not being fed.
Careful though, because you don't want to create a poisonous batch of yeast by exposing it to the elements and neglecting it for a long period of time.
Far from the authority on this stuff, let me just say that there are dizzying array of experts posting online about this, and half the fun is just trying out different techniques from these articles. You learn what works and what doesn't.
Once you get your starter going, you end up with an endless amount of yeast. And you will absolutely bake better goods with it than any possible yeast that you can find on the shelves.
That is .. IF you can find yeast on the shelves! Part of the reason I raised starters.
Best of luck. Hope some of the links are of help to you.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jun 16, 2020 12:40:09 GMT -5
I'm with Robin. I don't care for it a whole lot, but your bread LOOKS amazing and tasty. My dad was from the Bay Area and LOVED his sour dough bread. He used to buy it as a treat.
ETA- Bay area reminds me- I have always heard that your local will dictate your sour bread. Something about the climate.
The Local could very well dictate the results!
The best sourdough I have ever tasted is from the local of Sedona, AZ.
Thank you for the nice words. Just know that you can instantly turn your SOUR yeast into regular yeast, using a couple simple baking tips. It no longer will taste sour. But it will however taste unusually flavorful, and enhance whatever regular bread recipe which you happen to be working with.
I believe that an active starter is the *KEY* for all good breads that we eat.
I love breads and buy them often. But this never crossed my mind.
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RWA3006
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Member since March 2009
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Post by RWA3006 on Jun 16, 2020 21:27:15 GMT -5
Bill, those are good lookin. I've been using sourdough for 45 years, mostly for pancakes. I decided it's a waste of time to try "making" my own starter cause I didn't like the taste of them ... better to just buy or borrow a proven good one in the first place and then keep it. I got my starter from my mom, who got it from an old family in Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They supposedly had it in the family in the Utah/Wyoming area since it was brought across the plains by Mormon pioneers. It's one of my most treasured possessions.
I'm not an accomplished baker but I can make decent pancakes. Enjoyed your thread.
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Post by Pat on Jun 16, 2020 21:53:33 GMT -5
I love sourdough bread. Warm. A little crunchy on the outside, soft in the center. Not interested in making it. I would eat the entire loaf. Every time. Too good. Glad you like it and like doing it from scratch.
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billdean
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since April 2020
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Post by billdean on Jun 16, 2020 23:14:44 GMT -5
It's midnight here and I would sure like to try a piece. It looks darn good! Now I am on my way to the kitchen.
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NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
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Post by NevadaBill on Jun 27, 2020 9:27:12 GMT -5
Bill, those are good lookin. I've been using sourdough for 45 years, mostly for pancakes. I decided it's a waste of time to try "making" my own starter cause I didn't like the taste of them ... better to just buy or borrow a proven good one in the first place and then keep it. I got my starter from my mom, who got it from an old family in Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They supposedly had it in the family in the Utah/Wyoming area since it was brought across the plains by Mormon pioneers. It's one of my most treasured possessions. I'm not an accomplished baker but I can make decent pancakes. Enjoyed your thread. Thanks Randy. I knew that there would be someone else at the RTH who had a bottle of the little active guys tucked away in their fridge some place. At least at one time or another. Thanks for sharing your family story.
My personal starter is rounding into a solid batch. They are a vigorous eating bunch. I feed them to wake them up, and any time they get food after that point, it gets eaten up within an hour! They are a crazy hungry bunch. But ... not as tasty as I'd like. The original 100+ year old SFO yeast starter I bought is a MUCH better sourdough maker.
Last week I pulled out the old SFO starter and made my best (sourdough) loaf yet. But wow, it was a lot of labor. I babysat that dough for 5 hours before ultimately baking it. I would like to sound like some kind of expert, but it's just dumb luck at my level of baking. Each time I try different technique:
I know it's time consuming but the end result of cooking with active yeast (even pancakes with yeast extra from the splits) is very satisfying to me.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jun 27, 2020 9:30:13 GMT -5
I love sourdough bread. Warm. A little crunchy on the outside, soft in the center. Not interested in making it. I would eat the entire loaf. Every time. Too good. Glad you like it and like doing it from scratch. Thank you for the nice words! I have a hard time keeping my hands off the loaf after it comes from the oven too. I LOVE the crust part the best too (especially with Dutch Oven).
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RWA3006
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Post by RWA3006 on Jun 27, 2020 9:44:08 GMT -5
Diggin the dutch oven. Gotta say your creations get top honors for appearance alone.
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NevadaBill
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2019
Posts: 1,332
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 6, 2021 19:32:03 GMT -5
Bill, those are good lookin. I've been using sourdough for 45 years, mostly for pancakes. I decided it's a waste of time to try "making" my own starter cause I didn't like the taste of them ... better to just buy or borrow a proven good one in the first place and then keep it. I got my starter from my mom, who got it from an old family in Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They supposedly had it in the family in the Utah/Wyoming area since it was brought across the plains by Mormon pioneers. It's one of my most treasured possessions. I'm not an accomplished baker but I can make decent pancakes. Enjoyed your thread. Randy, I logged this afternoon just to amend this old thread. And tell you that I am of the same mind as you right now.
It is a waste of time trying to create and maintain a starter.
After more than a dozen loaves of mostly really good bread, a ton of rolls, and almost as many awesome sourdough pizzas, I lost my self-made starter earlier this week.
I honestly don't know what I did wrong. Maybe too much fridge time without feedings... I tried shocking it with sugar, for which it sort of responded to, but my last feeding was just ignored...
So it is gone.
And while the taste is unquestionably better than store bought breads (save a few local artisans), it is a lot of work. The proper keeping, feeding and maintenance schedule for a starter ultimately became too much work for me.
My SFO sourdough (bought) starter is still limping along but he is so slow to gathering froth after feeding that I am fearing of losing it as well. Not sure what to do really. He used to eat 2 hours after removal from fridge. Now it might take him 6 hours to get interested in food. Perhaps the fridge is too cold. Not sure. Honestly I paid more attention to my self-made starter and it died (for all intense purposes)...
I am kind of happy for the break actually. Long live the sourdough!
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 6, 2021 20:34:47 GMT -5
Bill, those are good lookin. I've been using sourdough for 45 years, mostly for pancakes. I decided it's a waste of time to try "making" my own starter cause I didn't like the taste of them ... better to just buy or borrow a proven good one in the first place and then keep it. I got my starter from my mom, who got it from an old family in Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They supposedly had it in the family in the Utah/Wyoming area since it was brought across the plains by Mormon pioneers. It's one of my most treasured possessions. I'm not an accomplished baker but I can make decent pancakes. Enjoyed your thread. Randy, I logged this afternoon just to amend this old thread. And tell you that I am of the same mind as you right now.
It is a waste of time trying to create and maintain a starter.
After more than a dozen loaves of mostly really good bread, a ton of rolls, and almost as many awesome sourdough pizzas, I lost my self-made starter earlier this week.
I honestly don't know what I did wrong. Maybe too much fridge time without feedings... I tried shocking it with sugar, for which it sort of responded to, but my last feeding was just ignored...
So it is gone.
And while the taste is unquestionably better than store bought breads (save a few local artisans), it is a lot of work. The proper keeping, feeding and maintenance schedule for a starter ultimately became too much work for me.
My SFO sourdough (bought) starter is still limping along but he is so slow to gathering froth after feeding that I am fearing of losing it as well. Not sure what to do really. He used to eat 2 hours after removal from fridge. Now it might take him 6 hours to get interested in food. Perhaps the fridge is too cold. Not sure. Honestly I paid more attention to my self-made starter and it died (for all intense purposes)...
I am kind of happy for the break actually. Long live the sourdough!
Awwww... I feel kinda sad for your loss.
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Post by Pat on Jan 6, 2021 20:44:31 GMT -5
Not the same, but long ago I bought a bread machine. The baking bread smelled sooo good! Couldn’t/wouldn’t keep my hands off it.
Gave it to our son. He loved it as well. Set it so it would be done by time he got up to go to work. He couldn’t keep his hands off it either! Gave it back.
Gave it to a friend. Same thing!! The smell of baking bread is wonderful. I suspect your homemade bread would be even more do. I best not make any!
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,174
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Post by RWA3006 on Jan 6, 2021 22:17:52 GMT -5
Bill, those are good lookin. I've been using sourdough for 45 years, mostly for pancakes. I decided it's a waste of time to try "making" my own starter cause I didn't like the taste of them ... better to just buy or borrow a proven good one in the first place and then keep it. I got my starter from my mom, who got it from an old family in Fort Bridger, Wyoming. They supposedly had it in the family in the Utah/Wyoming area since it was brought across the plains by Mormon pioneers. It's one of my most treasured possessions. I'm not an accomplished baker but I can make decent pancakes. Enjoyed your thread. Randy, I logged this afternoon just to amend this old thread. And tell you that I am of the same mind as you right now. It is a waste of time trying to create and maintain a starter.
After more than a dozen loaves of mostly really good bread, a ton of rolls, and almost as many awesome sourdough pizzas, I lost my self-made starter earlier this week. I honestly don't know what I did wrong. Maybe too much fridge time without feedings... I tried shocking it with sugar, for which it sort of responded to, but my last feeding was just ignored... So it is gone.
And while the taste is unquestionably better than store bought breads (save a few local artisans), it is a lot of work. The proper keeping, feeding and maintenance schedule for a starter ultimately became too much work for me. My SFO sourdough (bought) starter is still limping along but he is so slow to gathering froth after feeding that I am fearing of losing it as well. Not sure what to do really. He used to eat 2 hours after removal from fridge. Now it might take him 6 hours to get interested in food. Perhaps the fridge is too cold. Not sure. Honestly I paid more attention to my self-made starter and it died (for all intense purposes)...
I am kind of happy for the break actually. Long live the sourdough!
Hey Bill, my limited experience indicates that the higher quality a starter is, the longer it will keep. The starter I mentioned earlier has kept three years in the fridge without me touching it. Granted I had to feed it sugar for a couple days before it was ready to work, it still performed the same as it has for decades. My home made starter efforts died after a short time much like you've described. Good riddance.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 7, 2021 12:27:24 GMT -5
I read through this thread last night and ever since then I can't get the thought of the taste of sourdough out of my head! I'm going to have to pick some up in the next day or two because I sure am not going to try and make it! LOL
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NevadaBill
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Member since January 2019
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Post by NevadaBill on Jan 7, 2021 13:14:45 GMT -5
Not the same, but long ago I bought a bread machine. The baking bread smelled sooo good! Couldn’t/wouldn’t keep my hands off it. Gave it to our son. He loved it as well. Set it so it would be done by time he got up to go to work. He couldn’t keep his hands off it either! Gave it back. Gave it to a friend. Same thing!! The smell of baking bread is wonderful. I suspect your homemade bread would be even more do. I best not make any! You know, this is really a great story!
Too much of a good thing is sometimes not the best thing for you. I have gained 4 pounds during the last year and I bet that a lot of this can be attributed to the non-stop supply of bread that I have been eating lately.
Hmm. I just found my new diet plan!!
Thank you, Pat!
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