herb
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Post by herb on Jun 19, 2020 14:14:36 GMT -5
My lortone FL-15 flat lap is really noisy when running. I think the bearing that is on the motor shaft is causing the noise. The bearing is labeled "Dodge McGill SL - 3/4 - B". I am not having any luck finding anything about it online, not even a cross reference chart to point me to an equivalent bearing. Anyone familiar with this bearing and can tell me where to get one?
Thanks, Herb
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nik
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Post by nik on Jun 20, 2020 2:18:47 GMT -5
Is there any chance you could put up a photo of the bearing in question
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herb
spending too much on rocks
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Post by herb on Jun 20, 2020 8:15:07 GMT -5
Is there any chance you could put up a photo of the bearing in question I was just thinking last night before I went to bed I should have included a picture! So here it is: Top view. Bearing seems to be 1 piece. The smaller upper part with the 2 set screws is what attaches to the motor shaft. The lower part sits in a flange. You cant see it too good in the pic but the sides of the lower part are curved slightly. I think it is so the bearing can find its center in the flange so that the bearing is aligned properly. Bearing Top by Shiny Objects, on Flickr Another top view showing the markings: Bearing Top 2 by Shiny Objects, on Flickr Bottom view. You can see the curved sides of the larger bearing better: Bearing Bottom by Shiny Objects, on Flickr
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 20, 2020 9:59:47 GMT -5
Looks like a 3/4" (maybe?) pillow block bearing and the rest is insert (pressed) into the bearing. Can we get a picture of the "flange"?
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Post by knave on Jun 20, 2020 10:02:06 GMT -5
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herb
spending too much on rocks
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Post by herb on Jun 20, 2020 11:09:58 GMT -5
Looks like a 3/4" (maybe?) pillow block bearing and the rest is insert (pressed) into the bearing. Can we get a picture of the "flange"? Here are some pics of the flange. It is 2 pieces, a top and bottom that are identical: Flange Halves by Shiny Objects, on Flickr Here is the flange with the bearing: Flange & Bearing by Shiny Objects, on Flickr Side view: Flange & Bearing Side by Shiny Objects, on Flickr Bottom view (blurry but you get the idea: Flange and Bearing Bottom by Shiny Objects, on Flickr The flange and bearing get bolted to the top of a metal disk, while the motor gets mounted to the bottom of the disk. The whole assemble is then mounted to a larger metal disk (more like a pan) that sits on the 3 rubber balls and has the springs attached to it. Finally the grinding pan sits inside the larger metal disk. Here is a parts diagram from Lortone showing the whole assembly: Lortone FL15 Diagram by Shiny Objects, on Flickr (5) is the metal disk the flange and bearing assembly gets mounted to. (12) is the motor mounted to the bottom of (5) and (2) is the pan that the disk gets mounted to.
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herb
spending too much on rocks
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Post by herb on Jun 20, 2020 11:13:34 GMT -5
knave, that looks pretty similar. Unfortunately there are no dimensions on it to see if it would actually work for me. I'll have to call Kinsley to try getting some more info.
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 20, 2020 12:03:34 GMT -5
See if these specs match yours. The Dodge part number apparently changed to INS-SC-3/4
Edit: You will need to re-use the inside spacer that adapts the bearing to the motor shaft size. That isn't a part of the bearing as far as I can tell
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 20, 2020 12:03:42 GMT -5
knave , that looks pretty similar. Unfortunately there are no dimensions on it to see if it would actually work for me. I'll have to call Kinsley to try getting some more info. I was confused by your first post as my FL20 does not have that bearing assembly. There are no mounting holes to install one. All of the vibration forces are on the motor shaft and motor bearings. I did find a 1/15 hp motor that had ball bearings on the shaft. The motor I have on the machine now has those same bearings and it's been running for a year and half. It did start making a bit of noise so I ordered the same motor as backup.A lot of the 1/15hp motors I looked at had the worthless plastic sleeve bearings the the Lap Vibration eats up in a hurry. www.ebay.com/itm/Ao-Smith-CB2G011N-78-Ac-Motor-1-15hp-1ph-1550rpm-115v-ac/383575776742?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649The extra bearing assembly on the shaft does make more sense. Mine must be an older model that did not have that assembly. I have an extra FL-20 that was given to me along with 3 pans and I may look at modifying it to add that bearing assembly. On the other hand keeping 2 FL-20's fed with rocks adds considerably to my workload!!
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herb
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 444
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Post by herb on Jun 20, 2020 12:30:28 GMT -5
knave , that looks pretty similar. Unfortunately there are no dimensions on it to see if it would actually work for me. I'll have to call Kinsley to try getting some more info. I was confused by your first post as my FL20 does not have that bearing assembly. There are no mounting holes to install one. All of the vibration forces are on the motor shaft and motor bearings. I did find a 1/15 hp motor that had ball bearings on the shaft. The motor I have on the machine now has those same bearings and it's been running for a year and half. It did start making a bit of noise so I ordered the same motor as backup.A lot of the 1/15hp motors I looked at had the worthless plastic sleeve bearings the the Lap Vibration eats up in a hurry. www.ebay.com/itm/Ao-Smith-CB2G011N-78-Ac-Motor-1-15hp-1ph-1550rpm-115v-ac/383575776742?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649The extra bearing assembly on the shaft does make more sense. Mine must be an older model that did not have that assembly. I have an extra FL-20 that was given to me along with 3 pans and I may look at modifying it to add that bearing assembly. On the other hand keeping 2 FL-20's fed with rocks adds considerably to my workload!! Interesting that your FL-20 is different. I remember reading somewhere that the motor for the FL-15 was something lortone had made custom for them. There is no way my motor would run without the bearing assembly. I bought my FL-15 used so maybe the motor has been modified, but without the bearing assembly the shaft has almost a 1/4 inch of play. It would a lot more but the rotor presses into the stator to prevent any more play. The way it is built, the rotor and shaft is basically dreidel sitting inside a stator! Without the bearing assembly, the motor would be destroyed in minutes or less. Also interesting that the replacement motor you got is 1/15 hp. I always thought they were 1/6 hp motors. I also have a 15 inch Beacon Star flat lap whose motor was starting to get a little louder. The shaft was starting to have some play to it. I added a makeshift bearing assembly on it and it definitely quieted it down. I think otherwise the torque from the weighted shaft would have destroyed the motor by now.
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Post by HankRocks on Jun 20, 2020 12:52:31 GMT -5
I was confused by your first post as my FL20 does not have that bearing assembly. There are no mounting holes to install one. All of the vibration forces are on the motor shaft and motor bearings. I did find a 1/15 hp motor that had ball bearings on the shaft. The motor I have on the machine now has those same bearings and it's been running for a year and half. It did start making a bit of noise so I ordered the same motor as backup.A lot of the 1/15hp motors I looked at had the worthless plastic sleeve bearings the the Lap Vibration eats up in a hurry. www.ebay.com/itm/Ao-Smith-CB2G011N-78-Ac-Motor-1-15hp-1ph-1550rpm-115v-ac/383575776742?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649The extra bearing assembly on the shaft does make more sense. Mine must be an older model that did not have that assembly. I have an extra FL-20 that was given to me along with 3 pans and I may look at modifying it to add that bearing assembly. On the other hand keeping 2 FL-20's fed with rocks adds considerably to my workload!! Interesting that your FL-20 is different. I remember reading somewhere that the motor for the FL-15 was something lortone had made custom for them. There is no way my motor would run without the bearing assembly. I bought my FL-15 used so maybe the motor has been modified, but without the bearing assembly the shaft has almost a 1/4 inch of play. It would a lot more but the rotor presses into the stator to prevent any more play. The way it is built, the rotor and shaft is basically dreidel sitting inside a stator! Without the bearing assembly, the motor would be destroyed in minutes or less. Also interesting that the replacement motor you got is 1/15 hp. I always thought they were 1/6 hp motors. I also have a 15 inch Beacon Star flat lap whose motor was starting to get a little louder. The shaft was starting to have some play to it. I added a makeshift bearing assembly on it and it definitely quieted it down. I think otherwise the torque from the weighted shaft would have destroyed the motor by now. I tried a different motor without the beefed up ball bearing assembly on the shaft, it had an internal sleeve bearing. It lasted about 5 months. The one I am using now is definitely better, over 12 months and counting. A 1/15 hp motor seems adequate for this task as it's only driving the counterweight. I have also considered a plan to modify the Lap to be an indirect drive. Connect the motor to the shaft with the counter-weight with a belt. A bit more complicated, but should make the motor last a lot longer. Of course I am now replacing the bearing for the counter-weight shaft. On the other hand all of this tinkering and repair is good activity for keeping ones hands and one's brain engaged. Boredom is not an option!!
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herb
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 444
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Post by herb on Jun 20, 2020 13:24:42 GMT -5
See if these specs match yours. The Dodge part number apparently changed to INS-SC-3/4 Edit: You will need to re-use the inside spacer that adapts the bearing to the motor shaft size. That isn't a part of the bearing as far as I can tell
It looks very close! The only thing that didnt match up is the outer race diameter (C in the diagram) mine is .606 theirs is .709 inches. I suppose I could put some washers as spacers between the 2 flang halves when I assemble it. I'll have to check that there is clearance to do that.
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 20, 2020 14:16:59 GMT -5
See if these specs match yours. The Dodge part number apparently changed to INS-SC-3/4 Edit: You will need to re-use the inside spacer that adapts the bearing to the motor shaft size. That isn't a part of the bearing as far as I can tell
It looks very close! The only thing that didnt match up is the outer race diameter (C in the diagram) mine is .606 theirs is .709 inches. I suppose I could put some washers as spacers between the 2 flang halves when I assemble it. I'll have to check that there is clearance to do that. Have a look through These, They have some with 16mm (5/8" (0.625")) race widths, maybe even some 0.600". I didn't check them all Better to get one that's perfect than try to adapt one.
Edit: Another thing to consider is that most of these are greasable, so you would want the flanges to seal or as close to seal as possible so the grease doesn't just drip of the hole in the race when it warms up
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 20, 2020 14:22:56 GMT -5
Also take a look at These, they are probably easier to replace down the road if needed than an insert bearing
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herb
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
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Post by herb on Jun 20, 2020 19:27:21 GMT -5
It looks very close! The only thing that didnt match up is the outer race diameter (C in the diagram) mine is .606 theirs is .709 inches. I suppose I could put some washers as spacers between the 2 flang halves when I assemble it. I'll have to check that there is clearance to do that. Have a look through These, They have some with 16mm (5/8" (0.625")) race widths, maybe even some 0.600". I didn't check them all Better to get one that's perfect than try to adapt one. Edit: Another thing to consider is that most of these are greasable, so you would want the flanges to seal or as close to seal as possible so the grease doesn't just drip of the hole in the race when it warms up
Looks like Grainger has 3 different insert bearings that fit my specs! They all have 3/4 inch bore diameters. Does anyone know what the sleeve in my bearing that reduces the bore from 3/4 to 3/8 inches is called? I'm wondering if it would be better to just get a new one of those to put in the new bearing rather than go thru the effort to pull the old one out of my old bearing and then put it in the new bearing. I don't have a bearing press so will have to improvise something to remove and insert it. I just removed the set screws from the old bearing to see if I'd get lucky and have the sleeve come out without much force, but no luck. I am also wondering when putting the sleeve into the insert bearing how one makes sure the set screw holes line up?! I'd hate to have to do multiple tries getting them to line up!
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 20, 2020 23:40:02 GMT -5
Have a look through These, They have some with 16mm (5/8" (0.625")) race widths, maybe even some 0.600". I didn't check them all Better to get one that's perfect than try to adapt one. Edit: Another thing to consider is that most of these are greasable, so you would want the flanges to seal or as close to seal as possible so the grease doesn't just drip of the hole in the race when it warms up
Looks like Grainger has 3 different insert bearings that fit my specs! They all have 3/4 inch bore diameters. Does anyone know what the sleeve in my bearing that reduces the bore from 3/4 to 3/8 inches is called? I'm wondering if it would be better to just get a new one of those to put in the new bearing rather than go thru the effort to pull the old one out of my old bearing and then put it in the new bearing. I don't have a bearing press so will have to improvise something to remove and insert it. I just removed the set screws from the old bearing to see if I'd get lucky and have the sleeve come out without much force, but no luck. I am also wondering when putting the sleeve into the insert bearing how one makes sure the set screw holes line up?! I'd hate to have to do multiple tries getting them to line up! This would be where you need someone very experienced with a press. Or some skill with bearings, a hammer, and a way to drive the inner race
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 21, 2020 0:06:53 GMT -5
Have a look through These, They have some with 16mm (5/8" (0.625")) race widths, maybe even some 0.600". I didn't check them all Better to get one that's perfect than try to adapt one. Edit: Another thing to consider is that most of these are greasable, so you would want the flanges to seal or as close to seal as possible so the grease doesn't just drip of the hole in the race when it warms up
Looks like Grainger has 3 different insert bearings that fit my specs! They all have 3/4 inch bore diameters. Does anyone know what the sleeve in my bearing that reduces the bore from 3/4 to 3/8 inches is called? I'm wondering if it would be better to just get a new one of those to put in the new bearing rather than go thru the effort to pull the old one out of my old bearing and then put it in the new bearing. I don't have a bearing press so will have to improvise something to remove and insert it. I just removed the set screws from the old bearing to see if I'd get lucky and have the sleeve come out without much force, but no luck. I am also wondering when putting the sleeve into the insert bearing how one makes sure the set screw holes line up?! I'd hate to have to do multiple tries getting them to line up! They usually call it a reducer. It would have to be drilled for the application, usually, so keeping the original is the economic option
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herb
spending too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 444
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Post by herb on Jun 27, 2020 9:19:25 GMT -5
So my replacement bearing arrived yesterday. Good news is that the 3/4" to 3/8" reducer in the old bearing was easy to tap out. Even better news was that the hole in the reducer where the bearing setscrew goes thru is not threaded and is quite a bit larger than the diameter of the setscrew so it was pretty easy to get the reducer properly placed in the new bearing. Put everything back together and the lap now runs much quieter, but now I can hear that the motor itself is kind of noisy making me think its days are numbered too. Since you guys were so helpful with the bearing, I was wondering if anyone can point me to a replacement motor. I called a local company which bills itself as the largest distributor of motors in the north east so I thought they could set me up. The guy I talked to wasn't too enthused to help me when I told him the motor didn't have a plate on it giving any specs. I told him it was a low HP motor, maybe 1/25 or 1/20 and it had a 4 post mount. Sounded like he'd reluctantly would do some searching until I told him my motor had a 3/8 inch shaft which is apparently not a standard size for these kinds of motors. I explained the bearing that is on the shaft and how it has a reducer that I could replace to fit any motor shaft he had, but at that point his only advice was to call a place that does motor restorations that would cost 300 to 400 dollars! This isn't my actual motor, but shows the type I'm looking for. I didn't want to completely disassemble my lap to snap a pic of the actual motor. Based on what knave said about his replacement motor, I think I would need something around 1/15 or 1/20 HP. It has 4 threaded mounting posts that are 2.75" (69mm) on center. The shaft is 3/8" diameter with a flattened side for a set screw although the diameter can be anything up to 3/4" and I'll get the proper reducer for the bearing. The shaft should be at least 1.5 inches long. It can probably be up to 2.25 inches long but I'd have to measure to confirm that. Motor_Example by Shiny Objects, on Flickr In looking at motors everything I've found so far are Air-Over motors which are designed to have air flowing over them for cooling. I don't know if this type of motor would live long without that airflow. My current motor has a build in fan inside the housing at the top that blows air over the windings and rotor while it is running. My current motor housing is 4.25 inches wide by 4.5 inches tall but the size of the replacement motor doesn't have to match that, it just can't be inches larger in either dimension.
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EricD
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Post by EricD on Jun 27, 2020 10:37:49 GMT -5
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herb
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Post by herb on Jun 27, 2020 11:40:08 GMT -5
Wow! Terrific! So much for the sales guys claim that they dont make small HP motors with 3/8 inch shafts! I see these are both Air-Over motors. So am I wrong in thinking these motors require blowing air for cooling?
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