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Post by djsparkles on Jun 28, 2020 10:44:30 GMT -5
Y'all are fantastic! Yes, way more than I bargained for but I now have a WEALTH of options to try. I look at this as a learning process, and am always open to new methods, recipes, equipment recommendations, etc. So now I'm off to go try them!
Not a tumbler, but would salt be just as effective as sugar? It looks just as gritty.
The sugar thickens water like a syrup, helping cushion and slow down impacts, as well as be a grit carrier like Jim's clay (and his sugar!).
I'm afraid salt wouldn't help. You can't use salt as an abrasive because it (and sugar) aren't abrasives, at least not ones effective against stones. Rub some on your skin and you may feel differently.
I finally landed myself a box of Borax from the store. They were out for months here. Then I saw this post....now I'm kind of afraid to use it lol. I had been using Ivory shavings and it did a great job of cleaning both the bowl and stones.
I guess I'll need to try a test batch of replaceable stone. I always worry about gas build up since the rotary runs unsupervised while I'm at work.
I finally landed myself a box of Borax from the store. They were out for months here. Then I saw this post....now I'm kind of afraid to use it lol. I had been using Ivory shavings and it did a great job of cleaning both the bowl and stones.
I guess I'll need to try a test batch of replaceable stone. I always worry about gas build up since the rotary runs unsupervised while I'm at work.
I've been using borax on my last few loads. Definitely see the white buildup in the pits, but they're a pretty easy cleanout. Definitely no issues with using it, but I'll be experimenting with sugar on my next batch in the vibe. After seeing this more in depth discussion on the topic, I'm very interested to see how it turns out.
I would say give it a shot, see how it goes. It might be just right for you. Depends on how much you can babysit your rocks. I've been working from home since February, so I can always head down, spritz my rocks every few hours if they need it.
Post by fivedirections on Mar 7, 2022 1:35:25 GMT -5
Hey folk!
Long time listener first time caller.
I just finished using a box of Borax and of you are like me it is hard to keep your fingers out of the cookie jar and the grit/ph combination chapped my hands into cracking open.
Borax is not a passive ingredient. When it dissolves into H2O it turns your solution into H2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) and a ph level 9 solution of Boric acid which is turning your minimal amount of water into a supersaturated paste of that.
So that is a huge bit of chemistry going on depending on the ph level of the charge.
Look forward to seeing any comments. On a big role Borax plays I have never seen discussed by the chemically inclined mineralologist.
I usually add a pinch to every load, as a wetting agent. May or may not help, just a habit. Penultimate rinse after polish gets about half a teaspoon for a five-minute burnish/wash.
My hands hardly get wet during cleanouts other than picking up rinsed rocks and I doubt I‘ll live long enough to buy a second box. : )
Consider the Earth’s history as the old measure of the English yard, the distance from the King’s nose to the tip of his outstretched hand. One stroke of a nail file on his middle finger erases human history.
I just finished using a box of Borax and of you are like me it is hard to keep your fingers out of the cookie jar and the grit/ph combination chapped my hands into cracking open.
Borax is not a passive ingredient. When it dissolves into H2O it turns your solution into H2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) and a ph level 9 solution of Boric acid which is turning your minimal amount of water into a supersaturated paste of that.
So that is a huge bit of chemistry going on depending on the ph level of the charge.
Look forward to seeing any comments. On a big role Borax plays I have never seen discussed by the chemically inclined mineralologist.
-Sean
Borax in water forms sodium tetrahydroxyborate dihydrate.
And at a pH of 9 hydrogen peroxide would rapidly decompose. Peroxide is unstable in alkalinity, which is why the brown bottles of 3% peroxide have acidic stabilizers such as phosphoric acid, sodium thiosulfate, etc.
Borax can be combined with hydrogen peroxide to form peroxoborate.
Not a tumbler, but would salt be just as effective as sugar? It looks just as gritty.
Sugar will help thicken up the solution offering some cushioning and being sticky helps to get grit to stick to the stones better so more is in between the stones when they grind against each other.
I recall a while back a discussion coming up about using the salt sodium bicarbonate ]in tumbling by some people. There was a debate about this as the sodium bicarbonate as it will dissolve in water and even it did not the sodium bicarbonate is not very hard. I think there was something to this though. The dissociation of the salt could form a hydroxide, which in those concentrations can slowly dissolve silica. Same principle of how water can etch glass shower doors or block walls over time.The short term effect on the stones could possibly be softening up a very thin layer of the surface of the stones helping the stones to grind a little easier.
I just finished using a box of Borax and of you are like me it is hard to keep your fingers out of the cookie jar and the grit/ph combination chapped my hands into cracking open.
Borax is not a passive ingredient. When it dissolves into H2O it turns your solution into H2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) and a ph level 9 solution of Boric acid which is turning your minimal amount of water into a supersaturated paste of that.
So that is a huge bit of chemistry going on depending on the ph level of the charge.
Look forward to seeing any comments. On a big role Borax plays I have never seen discussed by the chemically inclined mineralologist.
-Sean
Borax in water forms sodium tetrahydroxyborate dihydrate.
And at a pH of 9 hydrogen peroxide would rapidly decompose. Peroxide is unstable in alkalinity, which is why the brown bottles of 3% peroxide have acidic stabilizers such as phosphoric acid, sodium thiosulfate, etc.
Borax can be combined with hydrogen peroxide to form peroxoborate.
Thanks for the info.
Listen to the rock. The rock knows its destiny. It will guide you in fulfilling that.
I just finished using a box of Borax and of you are like me it is hard to keep your fingers out of the cookie jar and the grit/ph combination chapped my hands into cracking open.
Borax is not a passive ingredient. When it dissolves into H2O it turns your solution into H2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) and a ph level 9 solution of Boric acid which is turning your minimal amount of water into a supersaturated paste of that.
So that is a huge bit of chemistry going on depending on the ph level of the charge.
Look forward to seeing any comments. On a big role Borax plays I have never seen discussed by the chemically inclined mineralologist.
-Sean
Borax in water forms sodium tetrahydroxyborate dihydrate.
And at a pH of 9 hydrogen peroxide would rapidly decompose. Peroxide is unstable in alkalinity, which is why the brown bottles of 3% peroxide have acidic stabilizers such as phosphoric acid, sodium thiosulfate, etc.
Borax can be combined with hydrogen peroxide to form peroxoborate.
Ah, very interesting. I need to revisit the article that said Boric Acid an Hydrogen Peroxide. It seemed authoritative at the time. Thanks for the information. Never the less it becomes something quite different than just water and borax. So depending on what minerals you mix that solution with.... untold other chemistry could be reacting to that setup. My fingers certainly don't like it.
Borax in water forms sodium tetrahydroxyborate dihydrate.
And at a pH of 9 hydrogen peroxide would rapidly decompose. Peroxide is unstable in alkalinity, which is why the brown bottles of 3% peroxide have acidic stabilizers such as phosphoric acid, sodium thiosulfate, etc.
Borax can be combined with hydrogen peroxide to form peroxoborate.
Ah, very interesting. I need to revisit the article that said Boric Acid an Hydrogen Peroxide. It seemed authoritative at the time. Thanks for the information. Never the less it becomes something quite different than just water and borax. So depending on what minerals you mix that solution with.... untold other chemistry could be reacting to that setup. My fingers certainly don't like it.
I have seen the claims of peroxide formation, but cannot find any evidence of this. Borax without water is Na2B4O7, which in this equation shows that reacted with 7 water molecules forms boric acid and sodium hydroxide.
Borax kills . . . yard plants. Incurs wrath of spouse and involves digging new hole for replacements and disposal of tumbling waste in more distant "sterile" location.
Tom Combining bicycles, trailbikes, hiking, and rockhounding as a justification for enjoying the fresh air of New Mexico.
Post by waterboysh on Mar 11, 2022 10:11:00 GMT -5
I see everyone here that says they don't use Borax says they use sugar (if there was another thing said, I didn't see it). I've been using Borax, but wanted to start using something else so I don't have to worry about killing any grass/plants. So I just started using hand soap and psyllium husk powder like ingawh mentions in this thread here. Now... I am literally running my first batch ever in 500 AO using this method, but it's been going for a little under 24 hours and seems to be working just fine. There's a nice slurry going in the Lot-o and I didn't have to really add much water at all. The slurry is almost gel-like in its consistency. When using the Borax, it seemed to soak up the water and I was having a hard time consistently getting the water levels just right.
I see everyone here that says they don't use Borax says they use sugar (if there was another thing said, I didn't see it). I've been using Borax, but wanted to start using something else so I don't have to worry about killing any grass/plants. So I just started using hand soap and psyllium husk powder like ingawh mentions in this thread here. Now... I am literally running my first batch ever in 500 AO using this method, but it's been going for a little under 24 hours and seems to be working just fine. There's a nice slurry going in the Lot-o and I didn't have to really add much water at all. The slurry is almost gel-like in its consistency. When using the Borax, it seemed to soak up the water and I was having a hard time consistently getting the water levels just right.
Can't wait to hear how it worked for you! 😃The gel-like consistency it perfect! At clean up time, the grit stays in the slurry, and the slightly doughy behavior means it pops easily out of any pockets in the stones, too. In my experience. Fingers crossed. 🤞
This is what the slurry looked like after 24 hours. Is this about what you'd expect it to look like? It looked a little to foamy to me, but the action still seemed fine and feeling it with my fingers I think it felt fine... but I'm not really sure since this is the first time I've tried your method and pretty much every video on Youtube either uses Borax or sugar.
This is what the slurry looked like after 24 hours. Is this about what you'd expect it to look like? It looked a little to foamy to me, but the action still seemed fine and feeling it with my fingers I think it felt fine... but I'm not really sure since this is the first time I've tried your method and pretty much every video on Youtube either uses Borax or sugar.
That looks pretty good. Do you notice that, while the lid may be damp, the dampness is mostly clear water, and the actual grit and slurry stay down in the barrel? That's a good sign that the psyllium is doing its job and the proportions are right. Best wishes, Inga
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Welcome to the Rock Tumbling Hobby Forum where we share a love of rocks and a sense of community as enduring as the stones we polish.
The RTH Forum of www.RockTumbling.com is an Amazon Associate site and we earn money from
qualifying purchases you make after clicking on our links such as this
Rock Tumbling Supplies on Amazon
link for instance, or any of our various product ads and banners. By clicking our links every time you begin your Amazon shopping
experience, you are generating a bit of revenue for the forum which helps us cover our expenses. Thank you for your support!