djsparkles
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since June 2010
Posts: 79
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Post by djsparkles on Jun 30, 2020 7:02:29 GMT -5
The difference between using hand soap and laundry detergent?
I know the consensus speaks to hand soap as the preferred substance... can someone explain why to me? I like to know how things work...
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Post by knave on Jun 30, 2020 8:07:22 GMT -5
I’ve never tried laundry detergent. Interesting idea, it may work well.
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djsparkles
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since June 2010
Posts: 79
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Post by djsparkles on Jun 30, 2020 8:27:43 GMT -5
Might try it with my next cleaning cycle. I'm about to get my last batch out and see how it looks. I've got a bunch of cracks I know That usually means underfilled barrel or rocks with diff hardness, right?
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Jun 30, 2020 8:50:45 GMT -5
The idea is to use a detergent that won't react with the rock in any way, possibly causing pitting or color change/loss. This means using a mild soap without any additives like a lemon fresh Scent or Softens as it cleans. Ivory and Borax are recommended for these reasons. I also like Dawn dishwashing soap cause it is mild and is a degreaser.
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djsparkles
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since June 2010
Posts: 79
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Post by djsparkles on Jun 30, 2020 9:08:14 GMT -5
Wooferhound, that's exactly why I was asking! Something like Arm and Hammer, though, the free and clear, no dyes or perfumes, that might work then based on your recommendation? And Dawn Dishwashing soap is a can do, I've got OODLES of the stuff LOL I buy in bulk.
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,339
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Post by quartz on Jun 30, 2020 22:57:32 GMT -5
djsparkles, are you figuring to use the soap for a bit of a burnish run or just to clean the load up? I use cheap dry laundry soap mixed with water to be pancake batter thick for a week burnish run after polish. We run mostly pet. wood and it glosses up some with the soap. We run rotary tumblers.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,154
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Post by jamesp on Jul 1, 2020 4:11:43 GMT -5
Consider a touch of dishwasher soap. It dries spot free. Has antifoam additives. Rinses off completely using warm water. All by design. If just washing tumbles put them in the dishwasher.
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Post by rmf on Jul 1, 2020 5:54:12 GMT -5
I have used both (which ever was closest). The point is to break the surface tension of the water. This allows the polish, fine grit to mix better and do a better job. With the advantage it will also clean easier when removed from the tumbler. For Agates and Jaspers they are not real permeable so I have not concerned myself with the rocks taking up components. Though for some stones this could be an issue.
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djsparkles
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since June 2010
Posts: 79
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Post by djsparkles on Jul 1, 2020 6:00:25 GMT -5
You guys are amazing! Thank you so much! I used hand soap (with fragrance) for my burnish run and got a BEAUTIFUL shine on some, not so much on others. It was a mixed load, so I'm thinking that had something to do with it...
Again, I have a LOT of information to work with. Y'all rock!
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ingawh
starting to spend too much on rocks
The rock wants to shine, I just help it get there
Member since February 2011
Posts: 194
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Post by ingawh on Jul 3, 2020 17:38:02 GMT -5
I like soaps that do not foam up too much ( as it seems to inhibit the smooth rolling action of the vibe). I think laundry soaps are generally made to foam up more. I know you can get "low foam" formulas for high-efficiency washers.
I never like to inhibit experimentation, however! If you find something that you like that works for you, let us all know.
Best wishes, Inga
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thebeef
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2020
Posts: 62
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Post by thebeef on Sept 14, 2020 0:22:43 GMT -5
I have been using Dr Bronners for no particular reason, but it's seemed to do fine.
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Post by Bob on Sept 14, 2020 9:29:04 GMT -5
When I first started rotary tumbling in 2014, I used two soaps mentioned in the Modern Tumbling book. Seems like one might have been Ivory and another Dreft powder? or something odd like that that I had never heard of. It seemed like burnishing helped the shine a little, but I wasn't totally sure.
The old timer tumbler mentor of mine, came and examined my results. He said to use only Ivory, only bars, and to do the following. He said to put 1/2" of hot water in the bottom of the barrel, then carve the bar into flakes with a kitchen knife (super clean knife, not a pocket knife that might have a speck of large dust fall out of the hinge or lining). He said the hot water super softens the flakes and make those first few rotations distribute the slime quicker. And to use a WHOLE BAR for a 12 lb barrel. My God, that's a lot of soap--a bit more than twice what I had been using. And to run anywhere from 3 to 12 hrs, but that I would probably see no improvement after 3 hours.
Well, just washing off the slimy load was something else! If it gets on my hands, no way to even hold onto the barrel before rinsing my hands. But, the results showed the wisdom of his advice.
So I use an entire bar in a 12lb barrel and 1/2 bar in a 6lb barrel and buy Ivory soap several bars at a time. Seems like there might be 2 sizes of bars. I buy the smaller ones.
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Post by HankRocks on Sept 14, 2020 10:35:27 GMT -5
I also use Ivory, probably less than 10% of a bar in a 15 pound barrel shredded with an old kitchen grater. The theory with Ivory is that is does not contain any added chemicals that may affect the lining in the barrel. That theory may be a myth but I go with it. I also add a tablespoon of Borax detergent enhancer to the soap run, helps with breaking down surface tension so the soap is more effective.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,681
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Post by Fossilman on Sept 14, 2020 10:39:24 GMT -5
I use Ivory soap after the polish stage, really "POPS" the shine on petwood and Montana moss agates..
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Post by Mel on Sept 14, 2020 12:49:13 GMT -5
I make soap on the side, and I've noticed that my homemade tends to foam up and make a nice slurry (roughly 1" square of soap to 1.5lb barrel) for the burnish stage. It's also kinda slimy but damn, my hands are super clean and soft after. No scrubbing needed and I get some pretty amazing results on the rocks, and a squeaky clean barrel to boot. It's pretty much homemade Dr. Bronners castille soap.
For "off the shelf" I'd say try Ivory or Dove, or maybe a clear dish soap (look for Dawn; it works on oily birds, how bad could it possibly be for rocks?). I would just try to avoid something with sulfates in it; will be gentle but not super drying (sulfates aren't great for your skin or hair either).
Remember, "soap" and "detergent" are different. You want soap. Detergent contains chemicals designed to strip away grease, contains abrasives, and is much harsher. Not great for rocks or rubber IMO. That said, use whatever works for you.
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thebeef
having dreams about rocks
Member since September 2020
Posts: 62
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Post by thebeef on Sept 14, 2020 14:01:07 GMT -5
I'm quite new at this, but I feel like I have done well so far. The main thing I am noticing in these threads is that many people are using much higher quantities of soap than I am. I have been adding just 2 or 3 drops of Dr Bronners at the end of Lot-O stages, and then burnishing with maybe a few drops more than that. I tried ivory shavings too, but didn't find that it helped...although, again, in a much smaller quantity than I am reading here.
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Post by Mel on Sept 19, 2020 10:52:35 GMT -5
I'm quite new at this, but I feel like I have done well so far. The main thing I am noticing in these threads is that many people are using much higher quantities of soap than I am. I have been adding just 2 or 3 drops of Dr Bronners at the end of Lot-O stages, and then burnishing with maybe a few drops more than that. I tried ivory shavings too, but didn't find that it helped...although, again, in a much smaller quantity than I am reading here. Keep in mind the higher quantities used are probably in rotary tumblers. I don't have a vibe yet but I know that they tend to use 1/2-2/3 less grit than a rotary; I imagine soap is the same. jamesp will know for sure.
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Post by HankRocks on Sept 19, 2020 11:17:39 GMT -5
I'm quite new at this, but I feel like I have done well so far. The main thing I am noticing in these threads is that many people are using much higher quantities of soap than I am. I have been adding just 2 or 3 drops of Dr Bronners at the end of Lot-O stages, and then burnishing with maybe a few drops more than that. I tried ivory shavings too, but didn't find that it helped...although, again, in a much smaller quantity than I am reading here. Keep in mind the higher quantities used are probably in rotary tumblers. I don't have a vibe yet but I know that they tend to use 1/2-2/3 less grit than a rotary; I imagine soap is the same. jamesp will know for sure. I put about the same amount of Ivory shavings in both the 15 pound rotary and the UV-18 Vib Hopper. Note that I fill the Vib Hopper with water to just about the top of the rocks for the burnishing. "Same" is relative as I do not measure the amount of Ivory shavings, just shred till I think it's enough which is somewhere between 10 and 20 % of a bar.
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Post by greig on Sept 19, 2020 14:13:25 GMT -5
I have tried various things including TSP, Borax and Dish Soap. I return to Ivory. I usually flake it with a cheese grater until it gets too small to hold in my hand and then I just cube whats left with a hunting knife. The little cubes take a bit longer to dissolve, but they are gone if they are inside the rotary overnight. That reminds me...I have some Brazil agate that has been in stage 4 for 2.5 weeks. I should get off the internet and put it into burnish before it gets dark. TTYL
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Post by Mel on Sept 21, 2020 20:09:03 GMT -5
That reminds me...I have some Brazil agate that has been in stage 4 for 2.5 weeks. I should get off the internet and put it into burnish before it gets dark. TTYL Sounds like you're getting bored of them over there greig. You should send them my way Seriously though, share some pictures when they're done!
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